Admissions Consultants

[Christcorp]

I don't think you one needs a consultant but there are plenty of kids that could make it through a SA but don't get in. Given that, the whole getting through is harder than getting in sounds pretty hollow.

Not really. Getting in, is simply a matter of "Numbers". Staying in, requires a lot more than numbers. It requires desire, determination, fortitude, maturity, attitude, and a lot of work; both physically and mentally.

Why do you think in a class of 1250 going to BCT, approximately 80 won't be there at the end of BCT? Most of them leave of their own decision. By the time commitment comes, the class will have lost another 100+. Again; most of their own decision. This doesn't even count those who got kicked out for academics or behavior.

So yes, if you're looking at the odds, (Numbers game), then yes, getting in can be difficult. But if many of the "Best" who do get in are quitting, what would that say about others? Obviously, with the right amount of desire, determination, fortitude, maturity, attitude, and work, anyone can make it through the academy. But that's easier said than done.

And I know a lot of people, come August, will complain about all those who quit during BCT. They'll say it's a shame because of ALL THOSE who didn't get an appointment who REALLY WANTED IT. Well; most of those who quit, REALLY WANTED IT TOO. Can't tell you how many kids say how they've wanted the academy THEIR WHOLE LIFE!!! Then..... they get in AND QUIT!!!

Saying you've always wanted to go to the academy is just a "Figure of Speech". No 17 year old KNOWS what they REALLY WANT. Anyone says they do, is delusional. They've lived in a bubble for 17 years. They haven't experienced the real world. That's why it's so important to realize........

Going to the Academy should NOT BE YOUR GOAL!!! The academy is simply a MEANS of helping you REACH YOUR GOALS!!! If the academy is actually your goal, then you really need to re-access what's truly important to you, and what you want to be doing 10, 20, 30,.... 60 years from now; and what you want to be remembered for.

 

[Packer]

Not really. Getting in, is simply a matter of "Numbers". Staying in, requires a lot more than numbers. It requires desire, determination, fortitude, maturity, attitude, and a lot of work; both physically and mentally.

Why do you think in a class of 1250 going to BCT, approximately 80 won't be there at the end of BCT? Most of them leave of their own decision. By the time commitment comes, the class will have lost another 100+. Again; most of their own decision. This doesn't even count those who got kicked out for academics or behavior.

So yes, if you're looking at the odds, (Numbers game), then yes, getting in can be difficult. But if many of the "Best" who do get in are quitting, what would that say about others? Obviously, with the right amount of desire, determination, fortitude, maturity, attitude, and work, anyone can make it through the academy. But that's easier said than done.

And I know a lot of people, come August, will complain about all those who quit during BCT. They'll say it's a shame because of ALL THOSE who didn't get an appointment who REALLY WANTED IT. Well; most of those who quit, REALLY WANTED IT TOO. Can't tell you how many kids say how they've wanted the academy THEIR WHOLE LIFE!!! Then..... they get in AND QUIT!!!

Saying you've always wanted to go to the academy is just a "Figure of Speech". No 17 year old KNOWS what they REALLY WANT. Anyone says they do, is delusional. They've lived in a bubble for 17 years. They haven't experienced the real world. That's why it's so important to realize........

Going to the Academy should NOT BE YOUR GOAL!!! The academy is simply a MEANS of helping you REACH YOUR GOALS!!! If the academy is actually your goal, then you really need to re-access what's truly important to you, and what you want to be doing 10, 20, 30,.... 60 years from now; and what you want to be remembered for.

Completely agree with the above bolded statements.

There is a bit of luck and timing involved in getting in.

But the whole getting in is easier than staying in sure comes across wrong especially when stated like this:

Consider this: if your child can't get into a SA on his/her own, how will he/she ever manage to make it through the SA on his/her own?

 

[Christcorp]

That is also true. Real all the threads about "Helicopter Parents".

 

[flieger83]

If you (the applicant) can't envision a time where you will walk into your room horribly frustrated and angry, at attention since you're a fourthclassman, pick up your pillow...

SCREAM YOUR LUNGS OUT and then CRY YOUR EYES OUT into that pillow...

Then remake your bed flawlessly, clean your face, dry the sink because it's NOT there to have water in it, compose yourself in the mirror to the image of a perfect fourthclassman...

Then open the door, greet any upperclassman walking by, march out of the squadron/company and proceed to your next class...all before lunch...

And KNOW that this will happen again today or tomorrow...and again...and again...and that it would NOT happen at (insert the name of any other good school) if you were there...

And you STILL want it that badly!

Then press ahead with your quest for ANY SA.

If not...there are other outstanding ways to become an officer and to serve!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[Packer]

That is also true. Real all the threads about "Helicopter Parents".

If you (the applicant) can't envision a time where you will walk into your room horribly frustrated and angry, at attention since you're a fourthclassman, pick up your pillow...

SCREAM YOUR LUNGS OUT and then CRY YOUR EYES OUT into that pillow...

Then remake your bed flawlessly, clean your face, dry the sink because it's NOT there to have water in it, compose yourself in the mirror to the image of a perfect fourthclassman...

Then open the door, greet any upperclassman walking by, march out of the squadron/company and proceed to your next class...all before lunch...

And KNOW that this will happen again today or tomorrow...and again...and again...and that it would NOT happen at (insert the name of any other good school) if you were there...

And you STILL want it that badly!

Then press ahead with your quest for ANY SA.

If not...there are other outstanding ways to become an officer and to serve!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

I think we are pretty far off the topic of whether a consultant would be beneficial to getting into a SA.

 

[Christcorp]

I think we are pretty far off the topic of whether a consultant would be beneficial to getting into a SA.

Not at all. Have I personally helped individuals get into an academy? Yes. Do I have any control if they stay there. No. None at all. The only thing a consultant can really do for an academy applicant is help with their confidence in interviewing with their moc. They can't help them with their grades or accomplishments. In a civilian college, there are many more avenues to getting accepted. Many more ways to find scholarships and money. Many more ways to use diversity. Connections with alumni. Connections with boosters. The academy doesn't use these methods. So what exactly is the consultant going to do for you. If you really can't learn to interview with a moc, and you can't get the grades and accomplishments to get into the academy, then nothing a consultant can do is going to help. Its a pure waste of time and money. And most civilian schools are easy to survive once there. A consultant can't help u survive at the academy.

 

[burnerafter16]

In our neck of the woods are numerous businesses that specializes in boosting SAT/ACT scores, teach kids to write killer essays and prepare them by polishing their resumes- albeit not a SA consultant, they pretty much as well be. Their list of kids who have aced the SAT/ACT and have been accepted to IVY league schools are out on display including SA appointments. Their fees are astronomical but some find the benefit to the cost. It almost seems as if this "SAT bootcamp" approach artificially boosts test scores by virtue of familiarization of the test with repetitive practice tests. My kids did fine studying on their own. Although they didn't ace their tests, it was close enough to be considered for nominations and eventual appointments to different SAs.
It has been discussed in past threads that the SAT and or GPA are only fractional components that make up a "well rounded" applicant. You cannot just take a junior and bolster their resume overnight. An Eagle Scout rank takes years. A Billy Mitchel in CAP also takes a long time. You're not going to run a sub seven minute mile if you haven't run before.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if your child has the drive and the intellect to meet the requirements at the sophomore or junior level, he/she should be able to go through the SA application process with minimal help. Our contribution was make sure they're making an informed decision and remind them of deadlines and make sure it was what they wanted to do after high school and beyond...and also to have plan "b" and "c" in case it doesn't happen.

 

[Christcorp]

And I, flieger, and some of the bgo and malo can tell you about the 4.0 GPA students with 33-36 ACT who were number 1 in their class that didn't get into the academy. And the ones who did, and quit later. As well as the 3.6 GPA with the 28 ACT who did get in. Not saying civilian universities don't look at more than grades, but the academies are looking for a "Special" applicant who is going to become an officer and a leader. A civilian school could care less what happens to you once you graduate. Pay your money and they don't care about anything else.

 

[flieger83]

Actually CC has said it nicely.

I thought my little "example" would also input my thoughts: a "consultant" for the SA's?

They're called ALO's, MALO's, B&GO's...they're unpaid, for the most part, ALL are volunteers, all are trained, kept up to date, and spend a lot of their own time and money to help young men and women in their quest for appointment.

I can't think of any "consultant" that would be more "up to date" than any of the above. To my knowledge, the only "consultants" trained and constantly updated on academy policies, procedures, etc., are the above.

However, even if one were to find a consultant, not even the consultant will be of use if the candidate, or "potential candidate" isn't 100% behind the quest! That was what my post was about. If the "candidate" wants it that badly, they will contact us...they will seek out the experts.

That's all we're saying and I think that's what the OP wanted.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[Packer]

Not at all. Have I personally helped individuals get into an academy? Yes. Do I have any control if they stay there. No. None at all. The only thing a consultant can really do for an academy applicant is help with their confidence in interviewing with their moc. They can't help them with their grades or accomplishments. In a civilian college, there are many more avenues to getting accepted. Many more ways to find scholarships and money. Many more ways to use diversity. Connections with alumni. Connections with boosters. The academy doesn't use these methods. So what exactly is the consultant going to do for you. If you really can't learn to interview with a moc, and you can't get the grades and accomplishments to get into the academy, then nothing a consultant can do is going to help. Its a pure waste of time and money. And most civilian schools are easy to survive once there. A consultant can't help u survive at the academy.

If you don't think dragging the helicopter parent stuff into this is off the topic, I must not be smart enough to follow your train of thought. I do think you are spot on with your advice though.

 

[burnerafter16]

Over a year ago, we were introduced to the negative connotation of "helicopter parenting". Thanks to well meaning parents who shared great ideas of launching their offspring into life after HS and to a SA. The big difference between a civilian college and reporting on I-day to BCT is of course-the realization that DS/DD is in the military now. Hovering is pointless and discouraged. If the young man/woman that is going to a SA can not internalize the importance of setting and attaining goals without much hand holding and micromanaging by parents, then how can they thrive when left to their own devices?
With the gliders our DS/DD flew at their CAP detachment and the gliders flown at Colorado Springs, I thought of the tow plane that pulled the gliders to a certain altitude and when ready, let go of the tow line for the sailplane to soar to greater heights.
Yes CC, I think including "helicopter parenting" is relevant. Since the OP asked about the need for professional consultation that I believe has been debunked.

 

[Luigi59]

They're called ALO's, MALO's, B&GO's...they're unpaid, for the most part, ALL are volunteers, all are trained, kept up to date, and spend a lot of their own time and money to help young men and women in their quest for appointment.

They're also called AAPs (Academy Admissions Partners) at USCGA, and AFRs (Admissions Field Representatives) at USMMA, and (shocker) they do the same things.

 

[usna1985]

But the whole getting in is easier than staying in sure comes across wrong especially when stated like this:
Quote:
Consider this: if your child can't get into a SA on his/her own, how will he/she ever manage to make it through the SA on his/her own?

My point was not well stated. What I was trying to say is that, if someone cannot get through the PROCESS OF APPLYING on their own, they will have a hard time getting through a SA on their own.

In other words, if you can't complete the forms, send in the emails for your teacher recs, set up a meeting with your BGO, handle yourself decently in an interview, etc. without a consultant -- how will you ever manage the myriad of paperwork that is the military? How will you handle chow calls with people screaming in your face? How will you organize your day?

The fact is that most kids applying to a SA CAN handle all of this on their own, maybe with some input/assistance from parents, BGOs, career counselors, etc. There are terrific books that walk you through the process. I'm not sure what a consultant could really do to help a candidate be successful that the candidate could not do him/herself.

Also, for those parents out there who want to do more than provide moral support, consider how your child will handle things come I-Day when you aren't there. A child can always benefit from the advice of parents - absolutely! . . . just be sure your child is the one who wants the SA and that he/she is doing the work to make his/her dream come true.

 

[time2]

^^ I agree, while I am sure there are 'consultants' who will promise all sorts of results, mostly they are in this to make money. If you can't take the initiative to make use of currently available information, then probably you aren't cut out to attend a military academy.

If you do hire someone, I would NEVER mention that during an MOC interview or on your application. Nothing good will come out of that. Talk with those currently attending the acaedemy you are interested in, visit in person, read their official websites. The information is very specific to each service academy and if that person doesn't have some direct connection and RECENT knowledge of their practices and procedures, their information probably won't be of any value to you.

 

[Pima]

+1 to usna1985 and time2.

The fact is I am sure on www.collegeconfidential.com they are all for consultants. However, their children are not going military, and do not know of the non-paid consultants for SA and ROTC HSSP applicants.

 

[Packer]

My point was not well stated. What I was trying to say is that, if someone cannot get through the PROCESS OF APPLYING on their own, they will have a hard time getting through a SA on their own.

In other words, if you can't complete the forms, send in the emails for your teacher recs, set up a meeting with your BGO, handle yourself decently in an interview, etc. without a consultant -- how will you ever manage the myriad of paperwork that is the military? How will you handle chow calls with people screaming in your face? How will you organize your day?

The fact is that most kids applying to a SA CAN handle all of this on their own, maybe with some input/assistance from parents, BGOs, career counselors, etc. There are terrific books that walk you through the process. I'm not sure what a consultant could really do to help a candidate be successful that the candidate could not do him/herself.

Also, for those parents out there who want to do more than provide moral support, consider how your child will handle things come I-Day when you aren't there. A child can always benefit from the advice of parents - absolutely! . . . just be sure your child is the one who wants the SA and that he/she is doing the work to make his/her dream come true.

This is well stated!

 

[FlyBoy1993]

My point was not well stated. What I was trying to say is that, if someone cannot get through the PROCESS OF APPLYING on their own, they will have a hard time getting through a SA on their own.

In other words, if you can't complete the forms, send in the emails for your teacher recs, set up a meeting with your BGO, handle yourself decently in an interview, etc. without a consultant -- how will you ever manage the myriad of paperwork that is the military? How will you handle chow calls with people screaming in your face? How will you organize your day?

The fact is that most kids applying to a SA CAN handle all of this on their own, maybe with some input/assistance from parents, BGOs, career counselors, etc. There are terrific books that walk you through the process. I'm not sure what a consultant could really do to help a candidate be successful that the candidate could not do him/herself.

Also, for those parents out there who want to do more than provide moral support, consider how your child will handle things come I-Day when you aren't there. A child can always benefit from the advice of parents - absolutely! . . . just be sure your child is the one who wants the SA and that he/she is doing the work to make his/her dream come true.

Bottom line was that if DS didn't make something happen, it didn't happen. He learned invaluable lessons on communication and follow-up, and even a bit of diplomacy along the way. the process is the way it is for many reasons. These are the ones they don't tell you about, but I couldn't agree more. If Mommy and daddy are doing all of the leg-work, they are really doing DS/DD a disservice.

We were there to support. Save for one situation where the "adults" screwed the pooch and almost cost him his nomination.

As for high school counselors and so-forth, ours were practically worthless- sending in his 5 semester transcripts extremely late and FAILING to send his 8 semester transcripts at all!!! " oh we sent them to the Military Academy at Marion like he requested." He had the printed request that also listed West Point. I was extremely surprised at the lack of understanding these people exhibited in submitting info and getting things done. We conscientiously made the effort to avoid the "don't you know how important our kid's future is?" play. DS made all follow up inquiries until the 8 semester transcript fiasco. That took one call to the principal, who is very supportive of the JROTC program on a Sunday. Again, I was amazed at the lack of understanding of the process with the SA's. Our DS is not the first student there to apply to the SA's. Seems counselors in particular would take a lot of pride in helping kids under their watch get into the better schools...maybe I don't get it. they certainly had no sense of urgency.

I would also concur that SAF has been a tremendous source of reference material, feedback, and general info. I cannot imagine dropping $6k on some cat to tell us that DS needs higher ACT scores.

 

[time2]

I wouldn't fault the h.s. counselors since they can't possibly be aware of the details associated with all of the various colleges students are applying to. In some schools, I would imagine they have very few students applying to service academies and may not have much experience to draw from.

 

[bpu]

Most are likely not worth it, however ours was relatively inexpensive and worth every penny. DS wanted any of the 3 military academies. He also had to work on Plan B schools as well as all 3 ROTC scholarship applications plus non-ROTC applications "just in case". High end public school with counselors and principal who had no clue what the process was. As non-helicopter parents we never once called/emailed school and son had to educate them. We got hauled into the principal's office once with our son because the school wanted parents to verify what our son was stating was correct. Son was doing tons of research and making calls/visits to current/former military to figure out what color uniform he wanted to wear after college graduation.

BGO was absolutely useless - unbelievably useless. Son found ways to work around her. FFR was painfully overworked so son never burdened him with any admissions questions and only really used him after appointments were received to figure out which one to pick. ALO was great and used often.

Why did we hire a consultant? Son had paid employment, regular volunteer responsibilities, varsity sports, college visits (all but one taken solo), AP/college courses, and I won't even list all his ECs. We never saw him his senior year. Consultant was a great knowledgable (at least in terms of knowing my son) non-parent sounding board and mentor, and was great helping him whip out 33 different essays and over half a dozen different resumes. Interview prep help as well.

As non-military parents we stood back - it was his gig. He needed help but it was better we weren't the ones helping him. Left us on good terms with our son so we were approachable for questions he did have. Our advice was really limited to recommending questions he should ask others and we didn't answer all the questions he had because we couldn't.

It saved him and us a lot of intra-household stress. Allowed him the time to carefully decide which SA and ROTC scholarships to finally accept.

If he was interested in only one SA from the start then no need for a private consultant. Seriously looking at three with Plan Bs and ROTC scholarships - that's a load of work for any 17 year old - especially with a full plate already.

 

[usna1985]

What exactly did the consultant do wrt SAs? Not ROTC, not Plan B, but for the SAs process? Not being flip, just curious.