Admissions Consultants

Maybe I am naive, but what is the big deal? As long as they can perform their duties in a highly efficient manner and not let it interefere with them, so what. Good for them.
 
Maybe I am naive, but what is the big deal? As long as they can perform their duties in a highly efficient manner and not let it interefere with them, so what. Good for them.

A decent question. Why is it a big deal for them to have other streams of revenue while they're active duty members of the military? That's fairly obvious, right? And it isn't confined to the military. I can't find other employment while I work where I do, now.

What we have here is two active duty officers, presenting themselves as experts. They do so, in uniform too. If we extend this beyond the internet, and I meet with one of them, are they consulting as an Air Force officer or as an independent business owner (and yes, it does matter).

I'm not sure where we're inferring that they are highly efficient either. Maybe the Air Force gives its officers plenty of time to screw around. I would hope the Coast Guard ensign involved, doesn't have time, as a deck watch officer, to "consult" (much less, help two guys that don't even list his alma mater as a service academy).
 
A decent question. Why is it a big deal for them to have other streams of revenue while they're active duty members of the military? That's fairly obvious, right? And it isn't confined to the military. I can't find other employment while I work where I do, now.

What we have here is two active duty officers, presenting themselves as experts. They do so, in uniform too. If we extend this beyond the internet, and I meet with one of them, are they consulting as an Air Force officer or as an independent business owner (and yes, it does matter).

I'm not sure where we're inferring that they are highly efficient either. Maybe the Air Force gives its officers plenty of time to screw around. I would hope the Coast Guard ensign involved, doesn't have time, as a deck watch officer, to "consult" (much less, help two guys that don't even list his alma mater as a service academy).

If you meet with one of the Air Force officers, it would be on the course during his mandatory golf time... so he clearly wouldn't be in uniform! :rolleyes:
 
If you meet with one of the Air Force officers, it would be on the course during his mandatory golf time... so he clearly wouldn't be in uniform! :rolleyes:

I was the Coast Guard's liaison for the air show at Andrews. Always one Coastie, many Army, Navy and Air Force and a sprinkling of Marine Corps.

Anyway, recognizaed one short female Air Force officer from the meetings, and then one day, as I joined from PAOs and senior enlisted from my office for 18 holes (it may have been a retirement event, I can't remember now...) who is working behind the desk of Andrew golf counter? That same JO. Apparently it was in her specialty, I guess. But I did a double-take.
 
I also was curious about the one USNA guy's tag of "Marine Aviator," since it usually takes much longer for Marines than 2 years out past graduation to get wings. As awkward as it is to explain all the time that I'm in training and not a pilot yet to people who don't really get it, it would be dishonest to describe myself in that way, so I wanted to see how far along he was in the pipeline.

...Zero results for his last name on MOL. I triple checked spelling on the website to make sure I wasn't wrong, and then did a couple test runs with my own name in or friends' to make sure personnel locator is working.
Unless it's a pseudonym...that's kinda weird. Even our class president frittering away his 2ndLt-dom at Oxford is in MOL.

I looked up the "USCGA 2011 graduate" on the Coast Guard Academy Alumni Association's directory and found that no such "Chris Warner" existed in the Class of 2011. There was a different "Warner" from the class, but his middle initial wasn't "C".

I followed up with a call to the Coast Guard Academy admissions and legal offices, same results, no "Chris Warner" in the Coast Guard. This is a female with "Warner," but she is neither a Coast Guard officer nor an academy graduate.

Now the follow-on question is, are the "consultants" real?
 
Now the follow-on question is, are the "consultants" real?

Well, the USNA guy on the site is "Patrick Taghen" from 2011. There is no USNA grad from any class with that name. However, after doing some digging, there is a Patrick Tagan (note different spelling) from 2011.

If these guys can't even get THEIR OWN NAMES correct on THEIR OWN WEBSITE, would you trust them to help you with YOUR service academy application????:eek:

Just saying . . .:rolleyes:
 
Maybe I am naive, but what is the big deal? As long as they can perform their duties in a highly efficient manner and not let it interefere with them, so what. Good for them.

Certain things military members cannot cut their connection to the military even if they are off duty.

Can a military member be an adult entertainer during off duty time?
 
I received an email from one of the founders who said that they were still working through everything and were offering their services for free. He also said that the Coastie listed was an exchange cadet and had expressed interest, but was no longer connected with them.
 
I received an email from one of the founders who said that they were still working through everything and were offering their services for free. He also said that the Coastie listed was an exchange cadet and had expressed interest, but was no longer connected with them.

Hey LITS, nice job on the detective work. Your tag line should be CSICoastie.

Funny to see that the site took down all of the pictures and removed the consultants from the other service yet they tell you that it's a free service but under their products and services tab/initial consultation, they still state "Should an applicant decide not to continue with the application after the consultation, the member will be granted a full refund (minus the initial consultation fee)." So much for the honor code.

So are they talking students out of joining the academies and charging a fee only if they decide to join the military? These guys are doing USAFA and the rest of the country a real favor. They should join Edward Snowball in Russia. The moral of the story is stick with SA Forums for accurate Academy info and avoid paying for the nonsense from these clowns impersonating JOs.
 
To be fair, I understand where they're coming from. They feel that have a good idea what it takes to be accepted by a service academy (they were after all, accepted to one). Maybe they understood there are many many high school students and their parents, who want to attend an academy, but also realize it is a rather complex process. And maybe in the spirit of capitalism they also saw dollar signs in their future due to this demand. Could have been sitting around "dude, I have this great idea." "That is a great idea!" "Let's do it!"

I won't fault them for that, not for a second.

I had a fun idea at my job too, but figured out, after talking to the ethics officer at my job, that it wouldn't happen.

But where they, and others, could run into problems, is their status as active duty officers in the military. I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what they would need to do to get permission or approval either.

And to be fair to them, they were very responsive to my questions and concerns.
 
But where they, and others, could run into problems, is their status as active duty officers in the military. I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what they would need to do to get permission or approval either.

LITS: A very balanced and appropriate follow up note.

My question was also around the "second job" aspect of what they were doing. I had thought it wasn't allowed back in my day but in doing some very quick research I believe I found it to be possible in today's regulations with a sign off by the chain of command. Perhaps my memory is cloudy and it was "officially" allowed years ago but never in practice. I assume the decision would be based on ethics, conflicts with duty, appearances, etc.

Truth be told, I wasn't aware of any junior officer in the Infantry/ Guard units I was assigned to who had the time for anything extra but perhaps it is different depending on your branch and MOS. The web's 24x7 and ease of access makes this a whole new world.
 
The above said, I still don't believe that a JO/recent grad has the best -- or even a good -- sense of what it takes to get into a SA in terms of resumes, essays, interviews, etc. The reason is that, typically, the only record you've seen is your own. Thus, you know what worked for you, but that doesn't mean your situation is applicable to the rest of the world.

A recent grad would be a terrific person to discuss with candidates what their SA is like, what they felt it took to succeed, how to prepare for the summer and Ac Year, etc. That would be VERY helpful. However, much of that info is available free of charge from other sources, including the SAs themselves.

Also, there are lots of folks who do have perspective having served as Admissions Officers, BGOs/ALOs/MALOs, MOC committee members, school guidance counselors, etc. who actually can provide meaningful -- and probably better -- advice about what to do to get in. And there are some excellent books on the subject as well.
 
Then you come from an area that uses "unethical" fairly liberally. Maybe it's like "hero" these days... as in communities calling underperforming children "heroic" when they get their scores up. News flash... that aint heroism.
Quit a leap from unethical to hero :confused:

Unethical can not be honorable. Seems pretty clear to me.
 
Quit a leap from unethical to hero :confused:

Unethical can not be honorable. Seems pretty clear to me.

I'm guessing we could drum up some examples of unethical behavior not being dishonorable.... and if it's not dishonorable.... does that make it honorable.
 
^^^^^
Please guys! Let's not go there. Let's keep this thread on topic.. whatever the heck it is at this point.
 
Quit a leap from unethical to hero :confused:

Unethical can not be honorable. Seems pretty clear to me.

Maybe honor standards have been relaxed but their response to the inquiry of the members here says that they are doing it for free but their web site still references fees for the initial consultation. In my book, that's dishonorable and an outright lie. Nowhere close to being heroes.
 
Maybe honor standards have been relaxed but their response to the inquiry of the members here says that they are doing it for free but their web site still references fees for the initial consultation. In my book, that's dishonorable and an outright lie. Nowhere close to being heroes.

So, maybe this is an example of ethics v. honor.

Poor Applicant Annie calls the website.

"Please sir, can I have some admissions help?"

"You have to pay $350, because it says so on the website. If we don't make you pay, it means we're lying."

"But both of my parents died when I was just a little girl and I live in a girls home. My only dream in life is to have a chance to attend an academy."

"Rules are rules."


There is nothing on the website that says the consultants CAN'T work pro bono... but it's dishonorable that they do give free services, while there are prices up?

Not sure I follow that logic. Many would say it's ethical to help those is need. Not mandatory, but wouldn't it be right to help a poor little girl with something you've offered free in the past?

Their fees aren't imposed by the inept U.S. federal government. It's up to them. They still have the freedom to give discounts. The opposite, charging for something you said would be free would seem to be both dishonorable (lying) and unethical (it's wrong), but is THIS dishonorable? Is this unethical?

I don't think so.
 
So, maybe this is an example of ethics v. honor.

Poor Applicant Annie calls the website.

"Please sir, can I have some admissions help?"

"You have to pay $350, because it says so on the website. If we don't make you pay, it means we're lying."

"But both of my parents died when I was just a little girl and I live in a girls home. My only dream in life is to have a chance to attend an academy."

"Rules are rules."


There is nothing on the website that says the consultants CAN'T work pro bono... but it's dishonorable that they do give free services, while there are prices up?

Not sure I follow that logic. Many would say it's ethical to help those is need. Not mandatory, but wouldn't it be right to help a poor little girl with something you've offered free in the past?

Their fees aren't imposed by the inept U.S. federal government. It's up to them. They still have the freedom to give discounts. The opposite, charging for something you said would be free would seem to be both dishonorable (lying) and unethical (it's wrong), but is THIS dishonorable? Is this unethical?

I don't think so.

Many of us are more qualified than these kids to provide consulting service for fee to SA applicants. I think some us can even justify that we can separate consulting service from our FFR, BGO, and ALO duties. So why don't we do it? For me, it feels wrong.
 
Many of us are more qualified than these kids to provide consulting service for fee to SA applicants. I think some us can even justify that we can separate consulting service from our FFR, BGO, and ALO duties. So why don't we do it? For me, it feels wrong.

I don't disagree. But I also don't think it's an issue of honor.

We overgeneralize here, with "honor". Someone breaks a rule "that's honor!".... no, that's conduct.

I don't disagree and I think the "business" would fail, as most do.
 
There is nothing on the website that says the consultants CAN'T work pro bono... but it's dishonorable that they do give free services, while there are prices up?

Not sure I follow that logic. Many would say it's ethical to help those is need. Not mandatory, but wouldn't it be right to help a poor little girl with something you've offered free in the past?

Their fees aren't imposed by the inept U.S. federal government. It's up to them. They still have the freedom to give discounts. The opposite, charging for something you said would be free would seem to be both dishonorable (lying) and unethical (it's wrong), but is THIS dishonorable? Is this unethical?

I don't think so.
The $ don't have much if anything to do with honor.

Are they mis-leading applicants with regards to their experience and abilities to get people in?

Looking at their website I can not see why an applicant would contact them, free or not.
 
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