UnDeniable901

New Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
4
So, first and foremost, Hello to all who will be reading this post. This post is pretty much about my story and thoughts on what anyone thinks. To start, I must remind you all that nobody is perfect and we all have made decisions that we are not proud of, but to contradict that statement, I do not regret the decision at all. For one, it was one of the best times of my life. Secondly, the situation actually changed my life for the better. Last, I made a complete 360 and started a whole different journey.

I am an Active Duty firefighter in the Airforce with 5-1/2 years of service coming up swiftly on my 6 year enlistment. My game is plan is to get out and try to obtain a ROTC commission in the Airforce as a pilot. I have my private pilot license right now and I will probably have ,at minimum, have a multi-engine rating by the time my enlistment is done.

3-1/2 years ago when I turned 21, I received a DWI, MIP, and a refusal to blow. I didn't have to go to court for the refusal to blow due to the prosecutors didn't present any evidence because my lawyer knew the prosecutor and he pretty much gave me a get out of jail free card(you all know the system is shady). The MIP was also dismissed due to the fact I turned 21 the same night I received the DWI. It was 11:58 when I got pulled over and I turned 21 at 12:00 that same night. However, I did take a plea deal for the DWI in return for 2 years of probation in which, If I did not get into any drug/alcohol related trouble, the charges were expunged. Of course, I did the probation without a problem - I have since then searched my criminal history and the record is clean but I am aware that the government can find out anything they want too.

With all that being said, on the Active Duty side, I did receive a LOR/Administrative demotion but my career did a complete 360 and in the span of 2 years I won Airman of the Wing x2, Diamond Sharp Award, 4 on my EPR, Airman of the quarter x2,(multiple other rewards) etc.., and I am up now for Airman of the Year. None of this was done to try and hide anything I did, and I accepted responsibility 100% for my prior actions. My career in the Airforce as an active duty member look very promising , but I have bigger dreams and goals.

What do you all think will happen when it comes to receiving a waiver/waivers? Is any of it worth a shot? I plan on listing the DWI as a civil involvement, but the other 2 charges (MIP and refusal) I am not due to the fact, there wasn't any paperwork pushed on either one of those. The system is so shady because even the tickets(MIP and Refusal) I received, where shredded(In which the officer did in front of me) by the police department when they found out I was in the military. Regardless of any advice I receive on this post, I am going for it. I will not let anyone thoughts, comments, or feelings deter me from what I truly want. This is more for my personal knowledge/thoughts. In the end, my true dream is to fly, any aircraft- any branch, and my civilian criminal record is clean so Im not really to bothered. I could shoot for a guard/reserve pilot slot in which I plan on doing that also if it doesn't work out thru ROTC. Out of all 145 AFROTC detachments around the USA, not to include the NAVY, all I need is one person to give me a chance in order for me to prove myself and I will apply for every last one of them.
 

Herman_Snerd

Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
589
I'll start by saying I don't have sage guidance on this but just will offer some thoughts just in case it will help.

On your mistakes - I say move forward - you did the crime, you did the time - don't focus on it, move forward - you can't change it, and don't let it define who you are. That being said, at least for civilian flight positions, a DUI is a death knoll. It's a career killer - my DS was warned you won't be hired if you get one. You should find out if it's the same in the military - apologies, I don't know. You should probably find out how to report this, if to report it if it's expunged so you can walk confidently on this.

I'll be honest - it looks like you are looking at education and service as distinct paths you can't do concurrently and I don't understand why. I guess because ROTC yields a path where you will be a junior officer, but I think there are other paths (others please help with details if so). Do you qualify for tuition benefits while on active duty, and if so can you get your education started /covered and continue to serve - maybe even graduate and do both over the next 4-5 years? Some schools offer remote courses - Purdue, Auburn, Penn State global, Strayer to name a few, and if motivated you could tackle a lot while earning time towards your pension and experience toward your career goals, regardless of where you are deployed. You also can get some credit for life experience.

Also, do you have a path to have your education covered by the GI bill, or military benefits that might support you getting your education for free if you decide to wrap up your active duty? While doing that, can you serve in the reserves or again continue to serve / get paid / get time toward a pension while getting a free education?

My DS is going ROTC, I love the ROTC program. Please do not read any discouragement - if that's what you want, then great. I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes, and thinking that if your goals are to get a degree then serve as an officer and to fly I hope you can have a path that doesn't involve stopping your military career/ income and time toward a pension to do so for 4 years. Also does the air force have a warrant officer to pilot officer path? again sorry I can't help I'm just trying to give you ideas for discussions that may help you. Good luck and good for you for putting some bad choices in your rear view mirror. feel free to PM me if you want to discuss the education side of this.
 

kinnem

Moderator
10-Year Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
14,806
It actually sounds to me like you have a good story to tell as you have evidence of having turned things around. Everyone is entitles to one mistake and you learned from yours. It can't hurt to go for it but, of course, always have a backup plan.
 

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,977
I am not sure I would go the ROTC route. Why not use your GI bill and go OCS?
1. You are going to be at least 24 when you start as an AS100 if you do AFROTC. 2 yrs older than the avg cadet that is commissioning.
~In essence, you are in no man's land. The PMS O3 would be your closest in age and you being a cadet, would mean they are not going to socialize with you. The AS100s are 18 living in dorms. The 400s that are closest to your age have bonded for the last 3 yrs., they are all getting ready to start their ADAF life, waiting for assignment drops and EADs.
~ Not uncommon for OCS to have personnel in your age group of 27-28 bc many prior Es go this route
2. Just like any AFROTC cadet you will need to be selected for SFT as an AS200. Your intended major and cgpa will be a factor in this situation. Tech/rated has the highest selection rate. PPL hours do not play into the equation for SFT.
~ OCS your cgpa will matter, but your PPL hrs will play into the equation for selection because you will basically be going to the rated board that AFROTC cadets meet as an AS300
3. Your records maybe expunged, but you still will need to go through a TS clearance. They will ask for 3 referrals, and they will dig into your prior records. This will occur as a rising AS400.
~ Going OCS is a break even on this aspect because you would apply in your junior yr for OCS, so in essence it is not much further out.
4. I think you are mis-informed about AFROTC dets selecting you. It is not like ANG or Reserves where you apply to each and everyone.
~ You apply to that college, if selected than you just walk on as an AFROTC cadet. Than you go through the commissioning process just like every cadet, scholarship or not...take the AFOQT, get selected for SFT. Take the TBAS, get selected for rated. Take the FAA FC1 and submit your TS clearance paperwork, and commission.

IF it was me, I would make sure I have hard copies of every piece of paperwork that the AF has on you, it can only benefit you in case they lost something in the system along the way.
 

UnDeniable901

New Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
4
I'll start by saying I don't have sage guidance on this but just will offer some thoughts just in case it will help.

On your mistakes - I say move forward - you did the crime, you did the time - don't focus on it, move forward - you can't change it, and don't let it define who you are. That being said, at least for civilian flight positions, a DUI is a death knoll. It's a career killer - my DS was warned you won't be hired if you get one. You should find out if it's the same in the military - apologies, I don't know. You should probably find out how to report this, if to report it if it's expunged so you can walk confidently on this.

I'll be honest - it looks like you are looking at education and service as distinct paths you can't do concurrently and I don't understand why. I guess because ROTC yields a path where you will be a junior officer, but I think there are other paths (others please help with details if so). Do you qualify for tuition benefits while on active duty, and if so can you get your education started /covered and continue to serve - maybe even graduate and do both over the next 4-5 years? Some schools offer remote courses - Purdue, Auburn, Penn State global, Strayer to name a few, and if motivated you could tackle a lot while earning time towards your pension and experience toward your career goals, regardless of where you are deployed. You also can get some credit for life experience.

Also, do you have a path to have your education covered by the GI bill, or military benefits that might support you getting your education for free if you decide to wrap up your active duty? While doing that, can you serve in the reserves or again continue to serve / get paid / get time toward a pension while getting a free education?

My DS is going ROTC, I love the ROTC program. Please do not read any discouragement - if that's what you want, then great. I'm just trying to put myself in your shoes, and thinking that if your goals are to get a degree then serve as an officer and to fly I hope you can have a path that doesn't involve stopping your military career/ income and time toward a pension to do so for 4 years. Also does the air force have a warrant officer to pilot officer path? again sorry I can't help I'm just trying to give you ideas for discussions that may help you. Good luck and good for you for putting some bad choices in your rear view mirror. feel free to PM me if you want to discuss the education side of this.
So yes my education will be covered by the G.I. Bill & I am 23 years old as of now. Due to the requirements of having to be commissioned as a pilot before the age of 29, I don’t have the time requirements in order to complete school within 4 years not to include secure an OTS spot before 29. It is possible, anything is possible, but I will be playing a risky game trying to complete school during active duty time and secure an OTS commission.

Also, so the DWI is cleared off of my records, I never got convicted of the DWI. As for flying civilian, as long as I didn’t receive a conviction for the DWI, I should be okay. (Per a airlines pilot I met) He did state however, that they ask(the same as the military) have you ever been charged with one & I do have to put/explain the circumstances and the outcome.

The Airforce do not offer a warrant officer program but I will not limit myself just to only trying to fly for the Airforce. I will try the Navy, Marines, heck even the army to finish out and retire even if it takes flying helicopters.


Lastly , I appreciate the advice and support. Clearly, you have more insight than I do. I appreciate you taking the time out to help. Thanks a lot! And I will PM you for sure.
 

UnDeniable901

New Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
4
It actually sounds to me like you have a good story to tell as you have evidence of having turned things around. Everyone is entitles to one mistake and you learned from yours. It can't hurt to go for it but, of course, always have a backup plan.
Appreciate that & definitely did. Live and learn, it’s the only way to grow!
 

UnDeniable901

New Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
4
I am not sure I would go the ROTC route. Why not use your GI bill and go OCS?
1. You are going to be at least 24 when you start as an AS100 if you do AFROTC. 2 yrs older than the avg cadet that is commissioning.
~In essence, you are in no man's land. The PMS O3 would be your closest in age and you being a cadet, would mean they are not going to socialize with you. The AS100s are 18 living in dorms. The 400s that are closest to your age have bonded for the last 3 yrs., they are all getting ready to start their ADAF life, waiting for assignment drops and EADs.
~ Not uncommon for OCS to have personnel in your age group of 27-28 bc many prior Es go this route
2. Just like any AFROTC cadet you will need to be selected for SFT as an AS200. Your intended major and cgpa will be a factor in this situation. Tech/rated has the highest selection rate. PPL hours do not play into the equation for SFT.
~ OCS your cgpa will matter, but your PPL hrs will play into the equation for selection because you will basically be going to the rated board that AFROTC cadets meet as an AS300
3. Your records maybe expunged, but you still will need to go through a TS clearance. They will ask for 3 referrals, and they will dig into your prior records. This will occur as a rising AS400.
~ Going OCS is a break even on this aspect because you would apply in your junior yr for OCS, so in essence it is not much further out.
4. I think you are mis-informed about AFROTC dets selecting you. It is not like ANG or Reserves where you apply to each and everyone.
~ You apply to that college, if selected than you just walk on as an AFROTC cadet. Than you go through the commissioning process just like every cadet, scholarship or not...take the AFOQT, get selected for SFT. Take the TBAS, get selected for rated. Take the FAA FC1 and submit your TS clearance paperwork, and commission.

IF it was me, I would make sure I have hard copies of every piece of paperwork that the AF has on you, it can only benefit you in case they lost something in the system along the way.


& this is exactly what I need. No one explains this information to you, it’s all about figuring it out on your own. I didn’t know anything about this, so I have to look more into it. Thanks a lot !!! I appreciate the advice.
 

Tbpxece

Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
770
The DWI conviction will be very difficult to overcome for a commission. The more excellent years you can put between that event and your commissioning date the better, but I'm doubtful you will make it through-- and VERY doubtful that you will be picked up for a rated slot.

A DWI/DUI conviction is one of the few things that can really tank a commission package; generally a plea deal means you were convicted.

That aside, I'm curious how you were demoted on an LOR-- that is impossible. A demotion = punishment, which means NJP under Article 15. I've seen suspended busts under LOR's, but never an actual demotion. I'd check with your JAG to review your actual PIF to see what happened there. Either you did receive an LOR and shouldn't have been demoted, or you actually received NJP. If it's the latter, then it's highly unlikely you will get any commission unless your package is really compelling-- especially for a first-term enlisted Airman.

Again, you cannot be demoted on an LOR.

It's not insurmountable, but don't pigeon hole yourself by saying "only ROTC", "only USAF", or "only pilot".

You've been in long enough to know this-- the AF hates alcohol-related incidents. It's even worse for officers. And as for OTS, don't even bother-- it's way too competitive right now, and you would be the bottom of the stack. Either look at AFROTC, another branch's ROTC, or Army WOCS/Army Aviator.
 

Pima

10-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
13,977
Regardless of any advice I receive on this post, I am going for it.

What was the advice your Squadron Commander or NCOIC gave you? You have stated you are what many people call "short" regarding leaving ADAF. IOWS, you have pushed the button and you are leaving.

Your Commander knows you, knows your background in a much deeper detail regarding your ADAF career than anyone else here. Having their guidance may help you more than a bunch of strangers.
~ IE @Tbpxece stated the LOR demotion aspect is curious. Your Commander knows the specifics regarding what is actually in your records.

The DWI is an issue and will be when it comes to the TS clearance in the flying world. Like @Tbpxece stated you want to give as much time between that and commissioning.

May I ask why you didn't use TA for college courses while you were ADAF?
 
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