AF decisions

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I am so sad that this conversation has devolved the way it has. Yes, mntwng is upset and is going a little too far. Yes, I knew there was a chance that my son would not get an EA. But do any of you know what the recruiters and detachments are telling these kids? Are any of you that are totally unsympathetic listening in on those conversations? Sure they are told that there was a very small chance ( much less than 10%) that they (scholarship cadets) might not get a slot, but really only if they screw up. Our kids did not screw up, and they got screwed anyway. Sometimes screwing people is perfectly legal and in the contract. Great. If you read the wording of the contract that is posted, it is still very nebulous. As posted :
" I understand that I must compete favorably with applicants for a POC Enrollment Allocation. Failure to do so will result in disenrollment and the consequences thereof."
I mean, how nebulous is "complete favorably"? Maybe some of you see this as 50% will not get a slot. Again, my son was told compete favorably meant everything that he did. He believed, based on what he was told, that he was doing more than "competing favorably".

The AF has a right to do what it did. That doesn't make what they did any less awful for the cadets who have put in a huge effort for the past two years. My son had to make a commitment last September. He could not just walk away from it. The AF could. These cadets have lost a lot. They were fine young adults who stuck with it and have already shown perseverance, intelligence, and leadership. Most weren't there just for the scholarship money. Many were there without any scholarship. These are the fine young adults who wanted to serve their country.

None of us parents are stupid. Some of us aren't as familiar with the military than others. We have no military background and familiarity with the military in my family. We asked the question we thought we needed to before accepting the scholarship. And my son was going off of what he was told by his detachment - that as a scholarship cadet, unless he outright screwed up, he would get an EA slot. He made decisions based on this wrong information.

Now, there are young men and women that will have to leave their college because of financial concerns. Or families are scrambling to try to figure out where the money is going to come from. This is hard on families and these very bright kids. They will recover. They will find their paths, I am sure. But some of you could learn a little sympathy for what these families (yes, it affects the whole family) are going through.

And there are cadets who lost so much so quickly, not to mention the time put in. They lost their current job, they lost their future career, the lost their main college activity/club, and they lost what amounts to their "fraternity". They are hurting. We, as the parents who love them, are hurting for them. Telling us all "IT WAS IN THE CONTRACT" is not useful, helpful or kind.
Allow me, for a moment, to step back from the amazingly blissful interactions I've had with the OP...and say that your post was LOADED with exceptional insight and logic.

I want to make myself absolutely clear, here: I genuinely feel bad for the kids that lost their current scholarships, and equally bad for those who believed themselves to be competitive for new ones, that didn't get selected. I mean that, sincerely. In a perfect world, everyone would be able to get what they want, pursue their dreams, and succeed for decades. Any decent parent would want the best for their child, and this forum is filled with folks who wish for nothing but absolute victory for their kid(s).

Had the discussion stayed within the confines of sanity and a willingness to accept reality, it would have remained on a straight and narrow path.

I wish the best for your child, and hope he/she can navigate themselves through a difficult situation, and find the success they long to achieve.
 
I've noticed it's only the parents on here talking about how unfair the Air Force is. The cadets I've seen on here who didn't get an EA have handled it with humility and grace. I have yet to see one of them claiming their cadre lied to them about EA numbers.

There are plenty of ways to get to where they want to go in life. The ones who deserve to be there will find a way. It sucks this happened to them this year, but this won't be the first or even the worst way they get screwed over by the military.

So to those cadets who are taking this on the chin and trying again next year or trying to find another way, kudos to you.
 
I've noticed it's only the parents on here talking about how unfair the Air Force is. The cadets I've seen on here who didn't get an EA have handled it with humility and grace. I have yet to see one of them claiming their cadre lied to them about EA numbers.

There are plenty of ways to get to where they want to go in life. The ones who deserve to be there will find a way. It sucks this happened to them this year, but this won't be the first or even the worst way they get screwed over by the military.

So to those cadets who are taking this on the chin and trying again next year or trying to find another way, kudos to you.
In fairness to parents, it's technically only "a few parents" talking "incessantly" about "how unfair the Air Force is." But, as a parent, it's natural to have initial feelings like this when a life-impacting negative event happens to our kids.
 
In fairness to parents, it's technically only "a few parents" talking "incessantly" about "how unfair the Air Force is." But, as a parent, it's natural to have initial feelings like this when a life-impacting negative event happens to our kids.
Fair enough. I don't have children, so I'm not sure what it must feel like to see a child not selected. I only see it from the perspective of a former cadet, where the expectations were made clear to me at multiple points during my first two years. While it might seem to parents cadets were blindsided, unless the cadre were extremely negligent, the cadets were aware of the risk, even if the parents weren't.
 
Fair enough. I don't have children, so I'm not sure what it must feel like to see a child not selected. I only see it from the perspective of a former cadet, where the expectations were made clear to me at multiple points during my first two years. While it might seem to parents cadets were blindsided, unless the cadre were extremely negligent, the cadets were aware of the risk, even if the parents weren't.
Understood. I've had 3 kids as/are cadets and while I didn't know the contract wording (that was in their court) we all knew there were restrictions to the scholarships and that Field Training selection was something that wasn't guaranteed.
 
you are absolutely right. I am a fighter jet parent. sorry, but I hope some kids and parents learn from this because we were blind sided. We are not stupid but we made horrible mistakes and were very uninformed on the risks of the path we took. If we had known the AF scholarship was contingent on the wind we would have accepted a guaranteed Academic Scholarship which he also had. The AF is flat out screwing kids and no one here want's to admit that. They will write nice things like it was Force Reduction and this is not normal. But no one here will admit they are screwing kids and parents that they stood in front of a big HS graduation telling the school, "Join the Air Force -- we are going to pay for 4 years." No they don't want to admit that they did that. They say it's OK because they sent an 18 year old paper work to sign so it's JUST FINE to do this and screw young adults. IT's LEGAL. Yep it is. Is it right? NO
You really aren’t open to anything other than hating on AFROTC, and ‘that recruiter’ who presented your sons scholarship. Ranting about it here isnt going to get you what you want. I seriously suggest you take it up with the powers that be at the AF. They are who wronged you. Right? This was done TO YOU (mom/dad), bc I don’t hear your sons voice...only yours. My own would be mortified at me posting like this. It is so, so unfortunate what happened. SO unfortunate. Sometimes, bad things happen to good people. But, you wont get any resolution that you are seeking here. Bring it up with people who can make a difference. Write the president. Or sue the AFROTC.
 
AROTC handles personnel and accessions somewhat differently than AFROTC. They do not engage in a sifting process at the end of sophomore year like AFROTC does. IMO experience (many decades now), attrition in AROTC is solely due to things like misconduct, change of mind about wanting to commission in the Army, grades, things of that nature. What can and has happened with the Army, though, is that active duty slots can get squeezed, so seniors can (and have) end up sweating whether they get active duty or, instead, get forced into a reserve component. And that is totally based on the national OML and number of active duty slots. At the moment, I'm not aware of any such squeeze, but as with all services, needs of the Army dictate.

Finally, there has been some chatter that the number of national scholarship awards this year out of high school was down. If true -- and it seems likely that it was -- that doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could simply be a reflection of the high number of applicants who didn't have SAT/ACT scores. Or it could be that they just didn't have the budget to give higher numbers. Nevertheless, often when something like this happens, those unused scholarships get returned to individual units to dispense on campus as they see fit. But I'm not sure that anybody knows at this point if that will happen this year or not.

Bottom line, I'm not aware of a significant blood-letting in AROTC like what seems to have happened this year with AFROTC; and I've never heard of mass forced disenrollment from the programJ

Just my guess, but I would assume that since Army Rotc has both reserve and active duty positions, any overstaffing can be easily remedied by placing more people in the reserves.
 
But......wait. hold on a sec.

We need to sort this out. We gotta get to the bottom of this travesty.

Did he get Straight A's? This point is unclear.....
yes, if he hasn't mentioned that in just about every post, I would be surprised.
 
Just a few thoughts:
  • Stop with the AF lied thing and the high school graduation rant. Do corporate recruiters tell college kids at job fairs that if you accept the job, we can pull the offer in case of budget shortfalls or things like pandemics? Of course not. Talk to people who move cross country to take a new job only to be laid off a few months later. Budget crunches are a given and recipients of an ROTC scholarship should know that selection to EA is not automatic.
  • Kids need to also realize that positions can be downsized while Active Duty as well - just like with corporate jobs.
  • At the graduation, the ROTC rep states that a scholarship was earned. Is this true? Yes. Is there fine print that the scholarship can be lost but is not highlighted in a congrats speech? Yes. All scholarships have this. Ask the kids who lost theirs due to social media posts for instance.
  • Do we have any outside confirmation of Yale cutting these people? Are the bloodbaths at certain schools? My two ROTC kids have not heard a thing like this in their detachments.
  • I'm sorry this happened, but you have a kid in Yale who can still go OTS or to another service - and he's at Yale. And you have a kid with a full ride to good college (Rutgers) who can also go OTS or do ROTC for freshman year and then apply for a scholarship. That's a pretty good Plan B.
Reminds me of a great story. When Eisner was still running Disney (so it was years ago), I met this girl who got a job from Disney and moved to Los Angeles. So when she goes to work the first day, they ask why she is there. When she tells today is her first day, they look confused because someone was supposed to have called her and let her know the job was no longer available. No one had called her to let her know and she moved cross country. She decided to remain in Los Angeles.
 
Just a few thoughts:
  • Stop with the AF lied thing and the high school graduation rant. Do corporate recruiters tell college kids at job fairs that if you accept the job, we can pull the offer in case of budget shortfalls or things like pandemics? Of course not. Talk to people who move cross country to take a new job only to be laid off a few months later. Budget crunches are a given and recipients of an ROTC scholarship should know that selection to EA is not automatic.
  • Kids need to also realize that positions can be downsized while Active Duty as well - just like with corporate jobs.
  • At the graduation, the ROTC rep states that a scholarship was earned. Is this true? Yes. Is there fine print that the scholarship can be lost but is not highlighted in a congrats speech? Yes. All scholarships have this. Ask the kids who lost theirs due to social media posts for instance.
  • Do we have any outside confirmation of Yale cutting these people? Are the bloodbaths at certain schools? My two ROTC kids have not heard a thing like this in their detachments.
  • I'm sorry this happened, but you have a kid in Yale who can still go OTS or to another service - and he's at Yale. And you have a kid with a full ride to good college (Rutgers) who can also go OTS or do ROTC for freshman year and then apply for a scholarship. That's a pretty good Plan B.
wrong. NO ONE told us that. You can pretend it's OK but lots of kids and parents aren't being told this. We were not told the risks.
 
@mtnwing, first, I am sorry about the frustration and disappointment. When our DD started AFROTC, we did not realize the competition level nor how her degree choice would affect her place in EA. We did not understand what a big deal getting a slot was. At her det, command stressed how competitive this year was and offered various avenues for assistance in other procuring other scholarships/military avenues(including introductions to other recruiters). There are a lot of excellent cadets right now that were placed in a character defining moment. Even though it stings, your child will need to ask for help navigating the néw landscape. The hardest part as parents is to not be able to help. But with determination and grit, I am sure your child will navigate fine as their current successes stack up higher than one EA slot. All the best to both of you
That's really great. My son did not get that advice which is frustrating and here we are and he is out.
 
wrong. NO ONE told us that. You can pretend it's OK but lots of kids and parents aren't being told this. We were not told the risks.
Its over, let it go or complain to the Air Force. What exactly do you want us to do about it. We all agree it sucks and it should have been better explained. My guess is that even it had been explained your son would have taken the chance as he wanted to go to the AF. As I explained, in 2018 when my son commissioned, it was a great time to join AFROTC. No one could have predicted what was going to happen. In hindsight, he should have taken the school's scholarship. You are at a point now where you are pissed especially as some people are telling you that you are wrong. Your arent accomplishing anything with your rants and the only way you are going to be satisfied is if we all agree you are correct. What is that going to get you?
 
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