AF Pilot...

[Thunderbolt462]

2. This variable is very important. At the academy, your major has absolutely no impact or even considered when applying to be a pilot. You can major in engineering, behavioral science, history, management, communications, etc. Pilots are of every major the school offers. Rotc on the other hand isn’t like that. It’s really difficult getting into rotc if you want to major in management or history. Then, if you do have such a major, competing for a pilot slot with such a major makes your odds even lower.

So your major in AFROTC actually has no effect on pilot selection whatsoever. A history major with a 3.8 would stand a better chance of being selected than an engineer with 3.2. Major does affect your ability to get a scholarship and get selected for Field Training, but you can join the program with any major and aren't required to earn a scholarship.

 

[Christcorp]

So your major in AFROTC actually has no effect on pilot selection whatsoever. A history major with a 3.8 would stand a better chance of being selected than an engineer with 3.2. Major does affect your ability to get a scholarship and get selected for Field Training, but you can join the program with any major and aren't required to earn a scholarship.

I said your major at the academy has no relevance on whether you get a pilot slot or not. I also said ROTC is the opposite it's difficult getting into ROTC if you want to major in management or history; and even harder if you want a pilot slot.

Not sure what your point is; unless you simply misread mine.

 

[Humey]

So your major in AFROTC actually has no effect on pilot selection whatsoever. A history major with a 3.8 would stand a better chance of being selected than an engineer with 3.2. Major does affect your ability to get a scholarship and get selected for Field Training, but you can join the program with any major and aren't required to earn a scholarship.

I said your major at the academy has no relevance on whether you get a pilot slot or not. I also said ROTC is the opposite it's difficult getting into ROTC if you want to major in management or history; and even harder if you want a pilot slot.

Not sure what your point is; unless you simply misread mine.

You probably wont get a AF Rotc scholarship if you major in management or history, but I dont think that will prevent you from joining Rotc. As for pilot spot, I have no idea, but I dont think it would stop you either although I would imagine they would prefer someone who was in a STEM program. However, if you have a killer PCSM and AFOQT scores, not sure why they wouldnt want you

 

[Thunderbolt462]

Rotc on the other hand isn’t like that. It’s really difficult getting into rotc if you want to major in management or history. Then, if you do have such a major, competing for a pilot slot with such a major makes your odds even lower.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it appears you're saying that your major affects pilot selection through ROTC while it has no bearing at the Academy for pilot selection. If that is what you're saying, that's not correct. The AFROTC pilot board does not take your major into account whatsoever. No disrespect to you and your experience, but I want to make sure someone considering both gets accurate information.

 

[Christcorp]

As Humey said, you'd be hard pressed getting an ROTC scholarship if you wanted to major in history, management, etc. Not saying you can't JOIN ROTC. The academy doesn't care what your major is in when applying to the academy.

As for ROTC pilot board; you are correct "Technically". Your major isn't important. HOWEVER, I will say that if there are more applicants than there are pilot slots, your major probably will come into play. You have to understand that there's a lot of official and unofficial aspects. For instance, just because you are in ROTC; (Scholarship or simply joined); doesn't automatically mean you will become a commissioned officer when you graduate. There's a lot of individuals who have been in ROTC who didn't get a commission. The academy on the other hand, unless you quit or fail out, you are going to be a commissioned officer. That's part of the pay back for attending the academy.

So, if you get an ROTC scholarship, you're correct that if applying for a pilot slot, your major doesn't matter. BUT..... getting an ROTC scholarship does have some bearing on what your major is going to be. And being ROTC, scholarship or self funded, isn't a guarantee for a military commission, you have to look at the full picture.

 

[Pima]

Just for some clarifications as a Mom of a DS that was scholarship and a Govt Politics major that went on to become a pilot. If you do the math, statistically they will be the rarity.
~ 1. Only about 16-18% of ALL AFROTC cadets are on scholarship.
~~ The last I read AFROTC has about 5000 cadets, thus @900 are offered scholarships.
~ 2. To get the golden ticket scholarship type 1 is hard. Only 5% of all scholarships are type 1, and only 5% of them go to non-tech majors. Type 2 is 15% and @15% of those go to non-tech. Type 7 is the remaining bulk and 25% of those go to non-tech.

Now what has not been said is what most people call the scholarship, it is really not a true 4 yr scholarship. It is a 2+2. You must get selected in your sophomore year to go to summer training(SFT). If not selected than they have the right to dis-enroll you out of the program. Thus, you will not commission.
~ As others have stated numbers change year to year. The yr my DS was up for SFT the selection rate was 55%. The following year it was 90%, the yr after that it was 50%. It has been hanging around 90% for several years now.
~~ That board is called "masked" for the scholarship. In other words they do not know whether the cadet is on scholarship or not. It plays no factor into the selection.
~~~ However, they will break it down into 4 groups that will play into the equation. Rated/tech, rated/non-tech, non-rated/tech, non-rated/non-tech. The years that it dropped into the 50% if you put on your paperwork non-rated/non-tech your chance of selection was less than 20%.

I very rarely disagree with Mike, but I will on the remark about not getting commissioned unless he was referring to that 2 yr marker. If he meant after returning from SFT than unless you don't keep your nose clean (no DUIs, no academic issues, etc) than yes you will commission.

One thing to understand is that ROTC will never have the commission rate that USAFA will. The percentages are almost opposite. USAFA usually has about 80% of the class that enters commissioned 4 yrs later. AFROTC has about 25% that will commission. There are many reasons for this occurring in ROTC. The first is there are many that walk on, and after a yr they call it quits. The second is as stated above you have that SFT selection board as a sophomore.

You need to see commissioning sources in a different way. USAFA comes 1st. Big Blue at any given time has a 5 yr manpower plan. If USAFA's number is running higher than expected when the AFROTC yr group comes up for SFT they need to reduce the number selected for SFT. If the numbers are fine than AFROTC will have a higher selection rate. If something goes amiss during their junior/senior years than they have OCS to fill in more or fill in less.
~ About 7 years ago, USAFA's and AFROTC numbers were too high. OCS typically holds 2 boards a year. They cancelled one of them.
~ About 5 years ago, USAFA and AFROTC had enough cadets selected for pilot training that the OCS rated board basically only gave out CSO (nav), no pilot slots.

I definitely do not believe that you can't do AFROTC on scholarship as a non-tech and get a pilot slot since my DS is living proof, but I also believe that the odds are better with USAFA. HOWEVER, there is one more thing to add into the mix. College, be it at the Academy or a traditional school is nothing like you have ever experienced.
~Many of you have attended your entire academic life so far with the same kids. This means starting all over again with strangers. Emotionally that can be much harder than you think. Trust me as a military wife, your roots are planted much deeper than you ever can imagine. This can impact your academics. Your academics start to fall and now the stress becomes even harder emotionally. It becomes a downward spiral.

You need to make sure the school matches you personally too. In essence don't get wrapped up in the idea that this is a free education or it has better chances of becoming a pilot as the reason why you opt USAFA over AFROTC.

Finally, when my DS winged. The number 1 grad out of his class was a prior E that commissioned out of OCS. He got a 22. The number 2 was a ROTC grad that got a 15E. The point being once you get to UPT they don't care where that commission came from, your slates are all wiped clean and it is all about handling the stick.

 

[Christcorp]

Excellent post Pima. And yes, I was referring to getting selected for SFT. Some think that if they are "IN" ROTC in college, they automatically will become officers. That isn't necessarily true.

Bottom line, which I still believe, (Back to the original question), is that it's much easier (Pretty much guaranteed) to get a pilot slot out of the academy. Many times they don't fill all their slots. So if you graduate and qualify, you can pretty much get in. ROTC isn't as guaranteed. Still doable, just not as easy. Mike

 

[Humey]

Excellent post Pima. And yes, I was referring to getting selected for SFT. Some think that if they are "IN" ROTC in college, they automatically will become officers. That isn't necessarily true.

Bottom line, which I still believe, (Back to the original question), is that it's much easier (Pretty much guaranteed) to get a pilot slot out of the academy. Many times they don't fill all their slots. So if you graduate and qualify, you can pretty much get in. ROTC isn't as guaranteed. Still doable, just not as easy. Mike

I would add that in my son detachment, all were invited (summer of 2016) to Field Training between Sophomore and Junior and while I cant say that 100% of them passed since I really dont know, from what I hear from my son if not all, then almost all of them passed Field Training. Since you read that maybe 5 years ago, only about 70% or less were invited to Field Training, it seems like they are trying to commission as many people as possible. Between the pilot shortage and the expansion of the military, it is a good time to be in Rotc

 

[Bravo52]

At the current time, there are limited UPT slots available each year. It has nothing to do (very little) with the desire of the AF to grow the force, but rest solely on the number of aircraft available to train in (aircraft and IPs). Right now, that number is around 1100. The AF is looking at alternatives to increase the capacity of training (Public/Private etc) but is limited by many factors. When the new training jet "T-X" comes on line in full strength, it will get better but as of now, the pilot shortage will not likely be fixed until ~2027 (I've seen the briefs). The bigger issue is what is called "absorption" in big AF. It's all about the number of seats available to fly in once you become a mission qualified pilot.

My DD (2019) is pilot qualified but won't know for sure until AFSCs (not actual AFSCs as those are awarded after training) are given out in the fall of 2018 (~Oct). The cadets were told that a larger percentage are being selected for 11X (pilot) or other rated positions (12X, 13X etc). So you can expect that roughly 50% of a UPT class will likely be AFA grads, the rest will be ROTC, AFGR and foreigners. Of course all of this changes daily...

 

[MichaelD28]

I know that f-18 pilots don't log many hours but how about a-10 pilots do they get to fly very often

 

[Pima]

There are no F18 pilots in the USAF.

The A 10 is a unique bird and has been on the boneyard chopping block for decades now, no joke since the mid 90s.

If I am correct you are still in HS. The reality would be that before you even became mission qual (MQ) at an operational base it would be around 2026. Yes, you read that number right.
~ Commission 2023. Wait 6-9 months for UPT start (2024). Wing UPT (2025) SERE, Water Survival, and airframe school house (2026).

The A10 is beloved, but as much as I am not a betting women, I would bet that the A10 is not going to be dropping out of UPT in 2025.

JMPO, but I think you have it all wrong about flight hours. If you want the most amount of flight time than you would want heavies. My DH flew the F15E. 20 yrs of flying and he had only 2400 hrs. Our DS (C130J) probably will have that by the beginning of his 2nd tour because his mission is 8 hrs compared to Bullets (DH) which was 90 mins. Do the math. DS with 2 flights a week = 16 hrs. DH 2 flights a week =3 hrs. In essence, 800 hrs per yr for a heavy and 150 for fighters.

IF you are talking about flight missions, than it is basically going to follow the same course. They ALL will deploy. All OFFICERS, be it fliers or non-rated will need to do some schools (PME). Stealth's DS (F16) just completed SOS, our DS is going to it in a few weeks. It is a couple of months out of flying. As you upgrade to IP or AC than the AF flight hour requirements will change, believe it or not if manning levels are in balance, you will fly less. Theory is you have the skills and we need to spend the hrs on younger pilots to get them to that IP level.

Next, it doesn't matter whether you fly a 35 or a 52 or a 130, you will have a 2nd job on base. Do not expect to fly everyday. Once you are MQ you will have a 2nd job, and that could vary depending on rank. You might be in the scheduling shop, the weapons shop or the flight commander, etc. On the days you are not flying you will be working there.

Finally, and please do not be insulted, but after a decade here if I could have a dollar for every poster that at your age talks about flying fighters and 5 yrs later not getting one, I would be able to go on a cruise around the world for a yr in the owners suite with a balcony! I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer. I am trying to be brutally honest and illustrate that this will be a long marathon.

In the end of the day, I don't know one rated officer that does not love their airframe and will defend it as the best one in the AF, or in other words without their plane the AF couldn't do their mission!