AFROTC Disenrollment Investigation

Pima said:
kinnem said:
@bgrant I believe, because of the number of credit hours the OP had went entering the program he is on a 2 year AFROTC track. I think their issue is that there hasn't be enough opportunities for leadership billets in the time frame. Of course if that's the case then one has to ask why they have a 2 year program. I don't think they're saying the OP himself is immature but that his leadership skills haven't had an opportunity to mature, at least in a way that they can see it. A lot of surmise on my part but I'd bet important body parts on that.
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Kinnem, he is on a 3 yr track. He would commission @21. Basically, it would be akin to any college kid that is a walk on as a sophomore, aka why he started as a 250. 250's basically combine freshmen/sophomore AFROTC together.

I am not sure I agree that he hasn't had enough leadership. Sorry @Airman101. Yes, he was a walk on as a 250, so probably that fall semester he was given a job like being in charge of a special project bc they didn't expect him. Most fall AS200 jobs are assigned in the spring of their 100 yr. However, by spring semester they would have given him a leadership position, maybe something like the PT flight instructor. Once he returned from SFT as a POC (300) they would have given him a POC position.
~ Our DS's det is considered large by HQ AFROTC with about 250 cadets. However, in his unit, their commissioning class is @30 cadets, 60-70 as POCs. and the bulk are 100/200/250/500. IOWS, POCs, even as a 300 had leadership positions with many cadets reporting to them. The star cadets were being lined up this time of the yr for things like CVWC, CWC, etc.
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I didn’t have a leadership position in my 250 year.
 
How large is your unit?
What do you consider a leadership position?
~ IOWS are you saying for your entire 250 yr you showed up for PT and LLAB, and that is it? No jobs in ROTC?
~~ Being the POC for the military Dining In, may seem like you had no leadership position, but in reality, that was a leadership position, just like the CFC. You were in charge of coordinating the function for your unit.
~~ Being the PT instructor for your flight is leadership. You are in charge of making sure everyone in your flight passed the PFT.

Just need clarification to your post. Your post reads as if you showed up for PT, and LLAB, and went home.

Not trying to be harsh, but did you volunteer for anything and everything in your unit? Maybe you can talk to your CoC and say let me prove my worth
~ My DH and our DS went to a large AFROTC unit. They volunteered for everything. They were in Arnie Air. It was more than just PT and LLAB
 
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I am going to be honest. I am having a hard problem wrapping my cranium around this issue when you are 300, a strong gpa, strong PFT and graduated SFT.

I am not trying to pry, and nor do I need an answer from you, but being disenrolled as a 300 with your stats is insanely rare.

Your CoC is putting his/her name on the line, along with many others, including the NCOIC
~ For lurkers, or posters that don't understand. The cadre, is made up with AD members, such as the CoC, PMS, and NCOIC. They are reviewed by HQ AFROTC, and part of that review is tied to success rate. Making rank, will include success at the det. This CoC and NCOIC are risking their OPR/EPRs by initiating this action. The CoC is also risking the PMS's OPR/PRF too

I really wish you the best. As a parent I have to ask have you talked to them? If so, what is their opinion?
 
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Pima said:
I am going to be honest. I am having a hard problem wrapping my cranium around this issue when you are 300, a strong gpa, strong PFT and graduated SFT.

I am not trying to pry, and nor do I need an answer from you, but being disenrolled as a 300 with your stats is insanely rare.

Your CoC is putting his/her name on the line, along with many others, including the NCOIC
~ For lurkers, or posters that don't understand. The cadre, is made up with AD members, such as the CoC, PMS, and NCOIC. They are reviewed by HQ AFROTC, and part of that review is tied to success rate. Making rank, will include success at the det. This CoC and NCOIC are risking their OPR/EPRs by initiating this action. The CoC is also risking the PMS's OPR/PRF too

I really wish you the best. As a parent I have to ask have you talked to them? If so, what is their opinion?
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It is the truth, no lie. My first leadership position was given to me in the Fall of my 300 year and I did really well with it. As a crosstown leadership and POC didn’t really assist me and teach me. I have several memorandums of witnesses confirming this. I have no reason to lie. Our detachment isn’t the greatest with crosstowns. We lose a lot of them. Theres also a lot of conflicting communication at the Detachment as well.
 
Airman101 said:
Pima said:
I am going to be honest. I am having a hard problem wrapping my cranium around this issue when you are 300, a strong gpa, strong PFT and graduated SFT.

I am not trying to pry, and nor do I need an answer from you, but being disenrolled as a 300 with your stats is insanely rare.

Your CoC is putting his/her name on the line, along with many others, including the NCOIC
~ For lurkers, or posters that don't understand. The cadre, is made up with AD members, such as the CoC, PMS, and NCOIC. They are reviewed by HQ AFROTC, and part of that review is tied to success rate. Making rank, will include success at the det. This CoC and NCOIC are risking their OPR/EPRs by initiating this action. The CoC is also risking the PMS's OPR/PRF too

I really wish you the best. As a parent I have to ask have you talked to them? If so, what is their opinion?
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It is the truth, no lie. My first leadership position was given to me in the Fall of my 300 year and I did really well with it. As a crosstown leadership and POC didn’t really assist me and teach me. I have several memorandums of witnesses confirming this. I have no reason to lie. Our detachment isn’t the greatest with crosstowns. We lose a lot of them. Theres also a lot of conflicting communication at the Detachment as well.
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If your detachment leadership thinks you’re such a bad leader then you should ask your CO why he sent you to field training in the first place. Sounds like he messed up, not you. Either you truly don’t have the leadership skills to be an officer or you’re getting shafted because I’ve seen some of the recent AFROTC grads coming on active duty and frankly many of them couldn’t lead their way out of a paper bag, let alone lead troops, and yet they’re being allowed to commission. In today’s Air Force (especially with the recent military buildup), they’re taking anybody and everybody and if you can meet the minimums they will most likely let you commission.
 
Tex232 said:
Airman101 said:
Pima said:
I am going to be honest. I am having a hard problem wrapping my cranium around this issue when you are 300, a strong gpa, strong PFT and graduated SFT.

I am not trying to pry, and nor do I need an answer from you, but being disenrolled as a 300 with your stats is insanely rare.

Your CoC is putting his/her name on the line, along with many others, including the NCOIC
~ For lurkers, or posters that don't understand. The cadre, is made up with AD members, such as the CoC, PMS, and NCOIC. They are reviewed by HQ AFROTC, and part of that review is tied to success rate. Making rank, will include success at the det. This CoC and NCOIC are risking their OPR/EPRs by initiating this action. The CoC is also risking the PMS's OPR/PRF too

I really wish you the best. As a parent I have to ask have you talked to them? If so, what is their opinion?
Click to expand...

It is the truth, no lie. My first leadership position was given to me in the Fall of my 300 year and I did really well with it. As a crosstown leadership and POC didn’t really assist me and teach me. I have several memorandums of witnesses confirming this. I have no reason to lie. Our detachment isn’t the greatest with crosstowns. We lose a lot of them. Theres also a lot of conflicting communication at the Detachment as well.
Click to expand...
If your detachment leadership thinks you’re such a bad leader then you should ask your CO why he sent you to field training in the first place. Sounds like he messed up, not you. Either you truly don’t have the leadership skills to be an officer or you’re getting shafted because I’ve seen some of the recent AFROTC grads coming on active duty and frankly many of them couldn’t lead their way out of a paper bag, let alone lead troops, and yet they’re being allowed to commission. In today’s Air Force (especially with the recent military buildup), they’re taking anybody and everybody and if you can meet the minimums they will most likely let you commission.
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Yeah, I don’t think it’s my leadership skills that are horrible either because the stuff I’ve lead and organized went well. I’ve got a lot of witness statements
 
Let's be honest now.

You are basically stating that the cadre has it out for you.

They have not given you leadership positions and you have A LOT of witness statements to support your defense.

Look, there are crappy commanders in the ADAF world. Just saying I still have questions.
~ You have yet to reply to my questions
~~ Did you have a job as a 300?
~~~ How did you rank out of SFT?
~Witness statemenrs
~~ Cadets or a PMS?

I admire your desire to serve.
 
Pima said:
Let's be honest now.

You are basically stating that the cadre has it out for you.

They have not given you leadership positions and you have A LOT of witness statements to support your defense.

Look, there are crappy commanders in the ADAF world. Just saying I still have questions.
~ You have yet to reply to my questions
~~ Did you have a job as a 300?
~~~ How did you rank out of SFT?
~Witness statemenrs
~~ Cadets or a PMS?

I admire your desire to serve.
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I was MWR shop chief in the Fall and FLT CC in the spring.
I Ranked in the lower 3rd at FT
I got cadets and an officer for statements.

I don’t think cadre have it out for me, but I think they haven’t seen the whole picture.

I have also talked to my parents and they support my enlistment if I’m Disenrolled. My Commander said that there should be no problem for me to enlist if disenrolled.
 
So you are saying that if you are disenrolled 1 yr out from graduating college, you will leave your university?
 
Well, I'd finish college first, if possible, prior to enlisting.
 
The thing about the military is you cant do anything without paperwork. That's a lesson they start teaching in ROTC and is VERY real on active duty. If your records are clean and you went to field training and you've signed your contract to the government.....I'd be surprised if the cadre can disenroll you without basically your consent. Commanders do have a responsibility to help filter who comes in, but a gut feeling and no documentation isn't going to cut it. Do you know how hard it is to get terrible POC's with crap records and paperwork to support their lack of leadership kicked OUT of ROTC? We certainly tried at my det but the CC was a lenient guy and the cadet that wasn't fit to lead anyone was going rated so......he figured he'd become a decent human being eventually smh.

Doesn't matter if you ranked low at FT, you passed. Literally not possible for everyone to be at the top, and FT is meant to test for people that fit a certain mold, there are all sorts of leaders. I've known good leaders that ranked low there bc they weren't the loud overbearing type. The first few years of active duty is all about growth and hard work anyways. You start from scratch. And once you get past FT your stats only matter for job selection and if the AF is going through a drought and have to reboard seniors. So I really don't see why there's any reason for the OP to regurgitate their stats here, they already passed the qualifier...everything else is garnish. Know your rights, and don't sign anything you don't understand. I really don't see how they can disenroll you at this point without you consenting to it in writing.

Have they given you feedback before this? If not that is a fail.

And I say once again. If you drop out 1 year prior to getting your degree, especially with a stellar gpa like you have, there is a high likelyhood that you will regret it. Education is important, and you're so close. It would be rough to continue without ROTC, but graduate and then enlist if you want. It will help you tremendously there as well.
 
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