AFROTC EA due date
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impulse224
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For those who did not get an EA and still want to serve here is what I'd suggest.
This is my opinion only.
Assuming AS500 isn't an option OR switching to another ROTC.
Finish your degree, assuming it'll take another 2-3 years and try again for OCS / OTS. Although our military is cutting back for FY16, who knows what the projected numbers will look like when you finally do graduate. All branches at one point have had too many or too little and have taken a huge amount of members or purged massive amounts of members. It's a vicious cycle, but its true. Back in 2011 we had a 55% selection rate, the following 3 years were great. Now we're back to that viscous cycle again of having too many people and needing to cut back.
Just my 2 cents.
This is my opinion only.
Assuming AS500 isn't an option OR switching to another ROTC.
Finish your degree, assuming it'll take another 2-3 years and try again for OCS / OTS. Although our military is cutting back for FY16, who knows what the projected numbers will look like when you finally do graduate. All branches at one point have had too many or too little and have taken a huge amount of members or purged massive amounts of members. It's a vicious cycle, but its true. Back in 2011 we had a 55% selection rate, the following 3 years were great. Now we're back to that viscous cycle again of having too many people and needing to cut back.
Just my 2 cents.
5/11 (45%) cadets at my daughter's Detachment. One scholarship cadet out of 3 didn't get EA. The only 500 cadet didn't get selected again and he supposedly had the commander's top recommendation. Tough year.
X2
With the current climate/uncertainty within the AF I wouldn't recommend coming back as a 500. If you're certain you want to serve and be an officer....talk to the Army......soon.
Sorry I was having a senior moment, I switched over to AROTC the beginning of the 2011-2012 school year and was an end of camp commissionee summer of 2013. They would have let me enter as an MS3 (AS300) cadet because I had previous AFROTC time, however if any cadets are thinking of making the switch I strongly suggest asking to go into the MS2 (AS200) class and do LDAC (army Field Training) after their senior year. There are a lot similarities between the two programs, however to truly succeed in the program you really need two years before you go to LDAC.
What I have learned from being in the two programs is that the army and AF (and I'm sure Navy too) look for different character traits in their officers, so if for some reason you struggled in AFROTC in terms of commander's ranking or leadership, that does not mean that will hold true for AROTC. If you did not get an EA this year and feel your dreams of being an officer are over, I challenge you to go at least PT with the Army or Navy and see if that might be a better fit for you. Like I said earlier, look at not getting an EA as a million doors of possibilities just opened for you, instead of one closing. If anyone has questions about how it works to switch over to AROTC let me know!
sancontoa
What I have learned from being in the two programs is that the army and AF (and I'm sure Navy too) look for different character traits in their officers, so if for some reason you struggled in AFROTC in terms of commander's ranking or leadership, that does not mean that will hold true for AROTC.
Could you elaborate on this a little please? I'm trying to decide between AROTC and AFROTC. Thanks!
What I have learned from being in the two programs is that the army and AF (and I'm sure Navy too) look for different character traits in their officers, so if for some reason you struggled in AFROTC in terms of commander's ranking or leadership, that does not mean that will hold true for AROTC.
Could you elaborate on this a little please? I'm trying to decide between AROTC and AFROTC. Thanks!
My DS's Det had about 50% get EA, at least 4 scholarship did not get EA.
Moosestache
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15 out of 20 at my son's school got in.
Pima
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JMPO,
But I would look into switching branches and not going 500. As others have stated the going 500 is not just your decision, HQ will have the voice in offering this opportunity.
I would think twice because basically this is equivalent to meeting the promotion boards above the zone. The odds of making rank above zone are rare. Next year if the numbers are the same, you must ask yourself why would they offer you the slot as a 500 over the cadet that is up for it the first time?
As far as switching to another branch it might not be as easy as you think. I know for a couple of years AROTC said there was no room to take in x transfers. They too have numbers to make, and not exceed. The AF is not the only branch lowering their personnel numbers.
My very best thoughts and wishes with all of you. I know it sounds clichie, but in the end part of life in the military is not what you know, but timing too. You can control only so much and after that it is up to fate/destiny.
But I would look into switching branches and not going 500. As others have stated the going 500 is not just your decision, HQ will have the voice in offering this opportunity.
I would think twice because basically this is equivalent to meeting the promotion boards above the zone. The odds of making rank above zone are rare. Next year if the numbers are the same, you must ask yourself why would they offer you the slot as a 500 over the cadet that is up for it the first time?
As far as switching to another branch it might not be as easy as you think. I know for a couple of years AROTC said there was no room to take in x transfers. They too have numbers to make, and not exceed. The AF is not the only branch lowering their personnel numbers.
My very best thoughts and wishes with all of you. I know it sounds clichie, but in the end part of life in the military is not what you know, but timing too. You can control only so much and after that it is up to fate/destiny.
AlphaAlphaSigma
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I fully agree to that. Looking at the 500s this year they were pressured to become more competitive by increasing their GPA and PFA. The pressure to get all As pretty much burned them out. None of them got EAs and its really depressing for the amount of time and effort they put in to yield nothing. Historically looking at the former 500s in my detachment they burned out the quickest and were more vulnerable for dis enrollment as a POC because their GPA or PFA scores are not that competitive from the start.
I would also mention that there are Air Force Civilians and the Air National Guard/Air Force Reserves. At NATCON General Goldfein mentioned that the Air Force consisted of Active Duty, Reserves, National Guard and Civilians. Like Airmen Air Force civilians must swear an Oath of Office and perform some of the same duties as Airmen. Just because you cannot wear the uniform doesn't mean you cannot be in the Air Force. As civilians you still can be an important asset to the Air Force.
hanstine93
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Only 7 out of 13 made it at our Det.. Yet we still don't know who got them. Morale is really low for us today at PT and LLAB
Pima
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Off topic but, you mentioned Gen. Goldfein. Was it Fingers or Goldie? They are siblings, Goldie flew the F15E, I think Fingers flew 16s.
+1 to the fact that there are other paths to serve, My cousin was DQd from AROTC, but he works for the Army now in their Homeland division as a civilian. He PCSs also like the military, but the beauty for him, is it is on his terms, he volunteers for the location.
There is also another world that is available, it is called defense contractors. Lockheed, Rand Raytheon, SAIC, Booz Allen, L3 Comm, etc are employers that allow you to work in a field tied to the military.
Caveat: GS jobs are not easy to get. They are very competitive. If this is a path that interests you, my suggestion is get an internship this summer or next fall so you can keep parlaying that for the next two years until you graduate.
Finally,, regarding OCS, I suggest talking to a recruiter to find out if that is a viable route. The reasons why I say that are:
1. It use to have a question on the intake interview if you have ever been in a commissioning program.
~ If so, what program? Why you left?
Yes, and disenrolked will be your response.
2. A few years back they cancelled the OCS board for non-rated for a year. They had enough coming on line via AFA and AFROTC that they didn't need the OCS path.
~ With these numbers for SFT it is possible that they cancel one of their OCS boards. They typically have two a year.
Additionally one of the reasons for OCS's existence is to give enlisted members the opportunity to become an officer.
I am not trying to be Debbie Downer, just giving food for thought regarding options available.
+1 to the fact that there are other paths to serve, My cousin was DQd from AROTC, but he works for the Army now in their Homeland division as a civilian. He PCSs also like the military, but the beauty for him, is it is on his terms, he volunteers for the location.
There is also another world that is available, it is called defense contractors. Lockheed, Rand Raytheon, SAIC, Booz Allen, L3 Comm, etc are employers that allow you to work in a field tied to the military.
Caveat: GS jobs are not easy to get. They are very competitive. If this is a path that interests you, my suggestion is get an internship this summer or next fall so you can keep parlaying that for the next two years until you graduate.
Finally,, regarding OCS, I suggest talking to a recruiter to find out if that is a viable route. The reasons why I say that are:
1. It use to have a question on the intake interview if you have ever been in a commissioning program.
~ If so, what program? Why you left?
Yes, and disenrolked will be your response.
2. A few years back they cancelled the OCS board for non-rated for a year. They had enough coming on line via AFA and AFROTC that they didn't need the OCS path.
~ With these numbers for SFT it is possible that they cancel one of their OCS boards. They typically have two a year.
Additionally one of the reasons for OCS's existence is to give enlisted members the opportunity to become an officer.
I am not trying to be Debbie Downer, just giving food for thought regarding options available.
flyfightwin00
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6/11 at our det. Just feels like there will be hardly enough POC to run the wing! I had some good friends & great cadets that didn't get a slot which is really disappointing.
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Are they telling you today or still waiting until tomorrow? They wouldn't even tell us how many made it, everything's going down tomorrow after our final LLAB. Moral is pretty low here too, many are talking about not bothering going to PT tomorrow morning.
Trying to get smarter on options to counsel my DS. My DS's Det did offer him AS500, should this be seen as a good sign? Reading your comments above I am not sure what you mean about "above the zone". Can you elaborate? Thanks
I don't want to hijack this thread and I know I'm going to get called out on something in this responses because ever afrotc and arotc unit and for that matter ever military unit is very different in terms of its culture and what they look for in leaders. What I saw in afrotc is that the Air Force is looking for the fighter pilot, so they really take a look at everyone individual and evaluate the pros and cons of each specific person. They also do a lot more drill and ceremony in their program and seem to care more about officers having a good military baring and a kind of self confidence. The army however is looking for platoon leaders, a person who can successful lead a group of diverse people. They look more at how you work with other people and how well you can lead groups in mock battle drills. I found being good at PT and also having the ability to raise other's moral is key to doing well. The army is also a lot more forgiving in the way they run their program. Instead having the POCs (officers) and everyone else who route though leadership., the arotc program divides it into freshman and sophomores as junior enlisted, juniors as NCOs and seniors as officers. So the first two years you are encouraged to be a member of the team before being asked to preform as a leader. Once again this is my experience, but I hope that helps with your decision.
Pima
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When you are ADAF, there are three types that go up for promotion....later on in the career.
BPZ, IPZ, APZ
Below (fast burner)
In ( on time)
Above ( didn't make it IN zone)
Right now in AFROTC there is only IN (200/250) and Above (500).
IOWs, a 500 has to prove to not only the det, but HQ why they should take them over the 200.
It is a strong sign they are offering them a 500 slot, BUT if the numbers remain the same next year as this year, HQ could say we gave them a bite at the apple last year and they didn't make the cut.
I highly doubt that the CoCs that offered 500s last year saw these numbers coming down the pipeline when they offered it.
The reality is the military is like a pendulum, or IMPO bulimic. They binge and purge. Two years ago they binged, and now they are purging. Next year they could be binging again.
When our DS was a 300/400 I remember him saying with the incoming 100s on scholarship there would have been no way he would have received a scholarship. This is coming from a kid that had a 33/34 ACT best sitting, non-tech
Looking at the stats posted for SFT this year, I am not sure DS would have received a slot, and he had 3.43, 97 PFT, AAS, top 1/3 ranking.
Keep reminding yourself that it really is timing and you have no control over that. Born a year earlier or a year later, chances are the results would be different. Itf you can look in the mirror and say I gave 150%, than walk out proud and don't live a life of what IFs
BPZ, IPZ, APZ
Below (fast burner)
In ( on time)
Above ( didn't make it IN zone)
Right now in AFROTC there is only IN (200/250) and Above (500).
IOWs, a 500 has to prove to not only the det, but HQ why they should take them over the 200.
It is a strong sign they are offering them a 500 slot, BUT if the numbers remain the same next year as this year, HQ could say we gave them a bite at the apple last year and they didn't make the cut.
I highly doubt that the CoCs that offered 500s last year saw these numbers coming down the pipeline when they offered it.
The reality is the military is like a pendulum, or IMPO bulimic. They binge and purge. Two years ago they binged, and now they are purging. Next year they could be binging again.
When our DS was a 300/400 I remember him saying with the incoming 100s on scholarship there would have been no way he would have received a scholarship. This is coming from a kid that had a 33/34 ACT best sitting, non-tech
Looking at the stats posted for SFT this year, I am not sure DS would have received a slot, and he had 3.43, 97 PFT, AAS, top 1/3 ranking.
Keep reminding yourself that it really is timing and you have no control over that. Born a year earlier or a year later, chances are the results would be different. Itf you can look in the mirror and say I gave 150%, than walk out proud and don't live a life of what IFs
Pima
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Sanctoa,
You should not be called out on your assessment.
Let's be honest, the AF might also be called the Chair Force, but their mission is flying.
As an O1 in the Army you lead troops, and a lot of them. As an O1 in the AF you will not as a flier, You won't get a flight until you are 6-9 years in, and even then it is maybe 10-15 officers. It is just the structure of the AF.
~ An O6 Wing King/Queen has 5k personnel reporting to them on base. How many members are at Braggin just one Brigade?
Again, the AF is the smallest of all three.
As far as drilling, I think that is det specific. For AFROTC you never read about what type of boots, to purchase. They wear whatever is supplied. The SFT candidates (parents) on this site ask about moleskin and what it is, AROTC cadets know when they are MSIs.
~~~ DS as a 300 wore corframs, he didn't spend hours polishing shoes for inspection, he just windexed them the a.m. of inspection. getting an E wasn't worth the hours of polishing in his unit.
As far as ceremony I agree. AFROTC units typically have two formal functions a year. Dining In and Out. It is uncommon for a 300 not to have a Mess Dress, but I believe for AROTCit is uncommon for the cadets to own one.
~ This remains true in ADAF. I leave tomorrow for TX to be there for his winging. It is a 2 day function, starting with social on Thursday, and ending Friday night with a formal. In between, there is a breakfast, winging, luncheon, base/sim/flight line tour.
That is the AF. We might be the youngest of the services, but in the rated world, tradition/pomp and circumstance is still celebrated in a big way.
This thing will be repeated again when he completes his C130 training next Jan.
that being said. Bullet jumped with the 82nd for two years and as an AFO4 went to Leavenworth for CGSC. I have the most up most respect for the Army, and I get why they call the AF the corporate branch of the military.
You should not be called out on your assessment.
Let's be honest, the AF might also be called the Chair Force, but their mission is flying.
As an O1 in the Army you lead troops, and a lot of them. As an O1 in the AF you will not as a flier, You won't get a flight until you are 6-9 years in, and even then it is maybe 10-15 officers. It is just the structure of the AF.
~ An O6 Wing King/Queen has 5k personnel reporting to them on base. How many members are at Braggin just one Brigade?
Again, the AF is the smallest of all three.
As far as drilling, I think that is det specific. For AFROTC you never read about what type of boots, to purchase. They wear whatever is supplied. The SFT candidates (parents) on this site ask about moleskin and what it is, AROTC cadets know when they are MSIs.
~~~ DS as a 300 wore corframs, he didn't spend hours polishing shoes for inspection, he just windexed them the a.m. of inspection. getting an E wasn't worth the hours of polishing in his unit.
As far as ceremony I agree. AFROTC units typically have two formal functions a year. Dining In and Out. It is uncommon for a 300 not to have a Mess Dress, but I believe for AROTCit is uncommon for the cadets to own one.
~ This remains true in ADAF. I leave tomorrow for TX to be there for his winging. It is a 2 day function, starting with social on Thursday, and ending Friday night with a formal. In between, there is a breakfast, winging, luncheon, base/sim/flight line tour.
That is the AF. We might be the youngest of the services, but in the rated world, tradition/pomp and circumstance is still celebrated in a big way.
This thing will be repeated again when he completes his C130 training next Jan.
that being said. Bullet jumped with the 82nd for two years and as an AFO4 went to Leavenworth for CGSC. I have the most up most respect for the Army, and I get why they call the AF the corporate branch of the military.
I appreciate your wisdom. My DS seems to be on the short end of the timing, (for AFA two years ago and now EA) and seems to have be hearing "in any other year" each time. I feel terrible for him because I know how much he wants this and it doesn't feel any better to know that your stats were good enough "in any other year", but these have been his years. Thanks again.
I'm not sure whether the CoCs that are offering 500s THIS year are aware of what happened nationally with the 500s from last year. I realize that this forum is only a very small snapshot of what the national picture might look like....but I doubt anyone looking at some of these results would recommend the 500 path.