Hi, I am looking forward to getting a degree in aviation. I'm majoring in aviation because its a very easy degree and I know I can graduate college with a high GPA in it. However, the degree is useless and worthless in today's job market. I was going to major in aerospace engineering, but my GPA will be extremely low, therefore not making me competitive for an ENJJPT slot. I heard the usaf loves people with engineering degrees, but other people tell me that when going for ENJJPT, degree doesn't matter. I feel really confident about getting into ENJJPT successfully if I get the aviation degree. However, the drawback is that it won't provide a backup plan to fall back on if something happens. I really really want ENJJPT because I want to fly fighters in the usaf, so I'm really willing to risk it-but not sure if I should do it. What are your suggestions? Will the usaf reject me with my worthless aviation degree or would I get into ENJJPT with no problem if I do well? Do you think I should risk getting the degree? If, say, someone with an Aerospace engineering degree is highly qualified like me, and has the same GPA and pcsm scores, would the ENJJPT board rather take the aerospace engineering guy? Thanks for your time!!
AFROTC ENJJPT slot and aviation degree
- Thread starter flyguy 96
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If you feel confident about getting ENJJPT with the aviation degree what are you worried about?
To get one of the 30ish slots for ENJJPT from ROTC you will need to be ranked as the best of the best. With a non-tech degree your chances of that become a lot less. Don't get so enamored with ENJJPT that you don't investigate the other UPT options. The AF trains about 220 fighter pilots a year and a minority of them come from the 70-80 ENJJPT grads. Not all ENJJPT grads become fighter pilots, either.
Where are you at in the process? Are you in AFROTC now and considering changing your major? Will that delay graduation?
You also posted this same question on another military aviation forum. You should read and heed the responses from there as well.
Stealth_81
To get one of the 30ish slots for ENJJPT from ROTC you will need to be ranked as the best of the best. With a non-tech degree your chances of that become a lot less. Don't get so enamored with ENJJPT that you don't investigate the other UPT options. The AF trains about 220 fighter pilots a year and a minority of them come from the 70-80 ENJJPT grads. Not all ENJJPT grads become fighter pilots, either.
Where are you at in the process? Are you in AFROTC now and considering changing your major? Will that delay graduation?
You also posted this same question on another military aviation forum. You should read and heed the responses from there as well.
Stealth_81
Pima
10-Year Member
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- Nov 28, 2007
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- 13,900
+1 Stealth, especially the read and heed ALL of their advice.
I would also add a couple of things from an AFROTC perspective and how although an ultimate goal is great, but don't lose sight of the hurdles right in front of you. In this case SFT aka field training
Not selected for that and you will most likely be shown the door. Engineering students are selected at a higher rate than the nontech. They also are given an edge for their cgpa. Nontech need @3.4 to feel safe for selection. Tech can feel safe at the 3.0/3.1 level. This years selection rate of all those boarded was below 60%. That should give you a shiver from a statistical perspective. I believe tech selection was @8-10% higher than nontech. Won't swear, but for some reason 53% sticks in my mind for nontech.
Than how you rank out of SFT will be used as part of the score for rated selection. Along with your Commanders rank, PFA and your AFOQT score. Also the fact that your PPL hours matter too. It is called the PCSM 2.0.
~ IOWs that cgpa is by far only a very small % of your PCSM score, if your CoC comes back and ranks yoiu as the bottom half for the rated board and you scored a 50 on the AFOQT, plus you ranked out as in the top 50% at SFT you might be looking at UNT or RPA and not UPT, let alone ENJJPT even if your cgpa is a 4.0.
The reason they like engineers is because UPT is not just flying it is a lot of academics too. In the beginning for tech majors that usually comes easier than the underwater basket weaving major.
I suggest you read Raimius's blog about life at UPT on the AFA forum. It is not an exaggeraton regarding your life is get up, report at 7 a.m. get done @5, come home and hit the books or chair fly until 11. Repeat. Saturday is your down day and by Sunday afternoon you are hitting the books again.
I know you think that ENJJPT is the golden ticket for the 35. By 2022 they will be dropping at a higher rate, BUT that is also true for all of the bases. Look at the 22. They are dropping out of every UPT base. ENJPPT drops B52 just as fast as the others.
Plus, they will wash you out just as fast. It is not as if they will save you because you are at ENJJPT. They will have no problem saying you are suppose to be the best and you are not cutting it!
Good luck, but my best advice to you right now as a kid in HS. Complete step one apply for an AFROTC scholarship. It doesn't really matter to the unit if you are or are not on scholarship, but IMPO it will get you accustomed to meeting boards at the easy level. You will see that they only offer @18% of scholarships to applicants and how great these candidates stats are overall. 80-85% go to tech majors. It will give you insight that many of these same candidates will be your competition for SFT and rated selection. You can't assume that their stats are going to plummet once in college.
~ It will hopefully make you realize that stating your confidence of getting selected for SFT was a tad TOO overconfident to anyone that understands the system. Especially when you are basically saying I can do the work, but I want an easier rigor if it means the same result.
~~ Just saying whether that was your intention or not that is how it reads by many even on this week, kind forum compared to the other one.
We are here to help guide and support. Some of us have been here a long time. Long enough to say that the majority that enter with the dream of getting a fighter, let alone going to ENJJPT will never see it, and in the end they all beam ear to ear the day they wing. Why? Because be it a Buff or a Viper to them it is the airframe that has the most important mission in the AF! That and after 15 months of grueling hours they just want it over! Unlike leaving home one last time and looking back, many of them are gunning it for the gates chuckling to themselves as they see a T6 thinking I don't have a desire to relive that again!
~ Nobody flame me on that comment. I am not talking about friendships! I am talking about being reamed by an IP!
I would also add a couple of things from an AFROTC perspective and how although an ultimate goal is great, but don't lose sight of the hurdles right in front of you. In this case SFT aka field training
Not selected for that and you will most likely be shown the door. Engineering students are selected at a higher rate than the nontech. They also are given an edge for their cgpa. Nontech need @3.4 to feel safe for selection. Tech can feel safe at the 3.0/3.1 level. This years selection rate of all those boarded was below 60%. That should give you a shiver from a statistical perspective. I believe tech selection was @8-10% higher than nontech. Won't swear, but for some reason 53% sticks in my mind for nontech.
Than how you rank out of SFT will be used as part of the score for rated selection. Along with your Commanders rank, PFA and your AFOQT score. Also the fact that your PPL hours matter too. It is called the PCSM 2.0.
~ IOWs that cgpa is by far only a very small % of your PCSM score, if your CoC comes back and ranks yoiu as the bottom half for the rated board and you scored a 50 on the AFOQT, plus you ranked out as in the top 50% at SFT you might be looking at UNT or RPA and not UPT, let alone ENJJPT even if your cgpa is a 4.0.
The reason they like engineers is because UPT is not just flying it is a lot of academics too. In the beginning for tech majors that usually comes easier than the underwater basket weaving major.
I suggest you read Raimius's blog about life at UPT on the AFA forum. It is not an exaggeraton regarding your life is get up, report at 7 a.m. get done @5, come home and hit the books or chair fly until 11. Repeat. Saturday is your down day and by Sunday afternoon you are hitting the books again.
I know you think that ENJJPT is the golden ticket for the 35. By 2022 they will be dropping at a higher rate, BUT that is also true for all of the bases. Look at the 22. They are dropping out of every UPT base. ENJPPT drops B52 just as fast as the others.
Plus, they will wash you out just as fast. It is not as if they will save you because you are at ENJJPT. They will have no problem saying you are suppose to be the best and you are not cutting it!
Good luck, but my best advice to you right now as a kid in HS. Complete step one apply for an AFROTC scholarship. It doesn't really matter to the unit if you are or are not on scholarship, but IMPO it will get you accustomed to meeting boards at the easy level. You will see that they only offer @18% of scholarships to applicants and how great these candidates stats are overall. 80-85% go to tech majors. It will give you insight that many of these same candidates will be your competition for SFT and rated selection. You can't assume that their stats are going to plummet once in college.
~ It will hopefully make you realize that stating your confidence of getting selected for SFT was a tad TOO overconfident to anyone that understands the system. Especially when you are basically saying I can do the work, but I want an easier rigor if it means the same result.
~~ Just saying whether that was your intention or not that is how it reads by many even on this week, kind forum compared to the other one.
We are here to help guide and support. Some of us have been here a long time. Long enough to say that the majority that enter with the dream of getting a fighter, let alone going to ENJJPT will never see it, and in the end they all beam ear to ear the day they wing. Why? Because be it a Buff or a Viper to them it is the airframe that has the most important mission in the AF! That and after 15 months of grueling hours they just want it over! Unlike leaving home one last time and looking back, many of them are gunning it for the gates chuckling to themselves as they see a T6 thinking I don't have a desire to relive that again!
~ Nobody flame me on that comment. I am not talking about friendships! I am talking about being reamed by an IP!
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
OBTW, you do realize that the earliest you could leave the AF as a nonrated would be @4+ years...closer to 5 because the clock does not start at commissioning. It starts when you report to your first base.
~ Many if not most cadets will wait 6-9 months before reporting.
At that time even if you went military aviation, your degree would be out of date, but if you worked Maintenance it would be valuable to a company like SWA or American. Plus, you can apply for educational delay if you don't get picked up or take tuition assistance once in the military for grad school.
Also know that if you go rated the clock doesn't start ticking until you wing. It is an avg wait time to start UPT 9-12 months. Our DS commissioned as a Govt major in May 2012. He can leave April 2023.
Dont you think in either scenario employers now see undergrad degrees as the equivalent of a HS degree back in the 80s? Even grad degrees are commonplace. My DD didn't even think of entering the workforce as a teacher without a Masters in Education. Our DS2 is a junior as a biochem major and he is already looking at how he wants to follow his sisters footsteps and get a full ride fellowship for grad school right after graduation from an employment opportunity perspective.
JMPO, but unless your major for undergrad is really unique or from an Ivy, chances are you will be like the typical college kid just like mine and realize that the 100k in tuition will not be opening a lot of doors as much as if they spent 125k and another year to get a Masters for that entry level job.
~ Caveat, I live in VA and from NJ. I am talking about people from areas like this, where the graduating HS classes send 90%+ to college. Where many fortune 500s reside and they have top tier colleges that pump these kids out at a record pace.
As always stated here. Major in something you enjoy.
~ Many if not most cadets will wait 6-9 months before reporting.
At that time even if you went military aviation, your degree would be out of date, but if you worked Maintenance it would be valuable to a company like SWA or American. Plus, you can apply for educational delay if you don't get picked up or take tuition assistance once in the military for grad school.
Also know that if you go rated the clock doesn't start ticking until you wing. It is an avg wait time to start UPT 9-12 months. Our DS commissioned as a Govt major in May 2012. He can leave April 2023.
Dont you think in either scenario employers now see undergrad degrees as the equivalent of a HS degree back in the 80s? Even grad degrees are commonplace. My DD didn't even think of entering the workforce as a teacher without a Masters in Education. Our DS2 is a junior as a biochem major and he is already looking at how he wants to follow his sisters footsteps and get a full ride fellowship for grad school right after graduation from an employment opportunity perspective.
JMPO, but unless your major for undergrad is really unique or from an Ivy, chances are you will be like the typical college kid just like mine and realize that the 100k in tuition will not be opening a lot of doors as much as if they spent 125k and another year to get a Masters for that entry level job.
~ Caveat, I live in VA and from NJ. I am talking about people from areas like this, where the graduating HS classes send 90%+ to college. Where many fortune 500s reside and they have top tier colleges that pump these kids out at a record pace.
As always stated here. Major in something you enjoy.