Air Force ROTC Scholarships / Admissions - AMA

unkown1961

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Re the stats, as AFROTCAdmissions said, it's very unlikely that the final stats will be as high as what came out of the early boards.
For comparison, here are the stats from last year (FY'19)-- the Type 1 avg SAT = 1472, Type 2 avg SAT = 1404:
FY19 HSSP Results | SAT | ACT | GPA
Overall (2534 scholarships) |1366 | 30 | 3.78
Type 1 (284 / 11%) |1472 | 33 | 3.93
Type 2 (437 / 17%) |1404 | 31 | 3.87
Type 7 (1813 / 72%) |1342 | 29 | 3.73
Interesting, thanks for those. I'd love to see the breakdown of any major awards vs. tech major vs. non tech major. But they probably don't go that specific.
Any idea of the award rates for each - what percentage of the total applicants ended up getting a Type 1, 2, or 7?
 

thibaud

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unknown1961,

BLUF: Non-techs way under-index for Types 1 & 7 but over-index for Type 2; techs way over-index for Type 1 and slightly over-index for Type 7.
Best explanation would be that it's about yield. Higher yield by steering Type 2s to non-tech and Type 7s / Type 1s to tech.

Longer version:
Per the 2013 RAND study of the HSSP program and staffing needs of the Air Force, of the applicants who passed the initial AFROTC HSSP screen for SAT scores -- roughly half of whom went on to be interviewed -- ca. 65-68% intended to be tech majors, 25-28% were non-tech and 7% were foreign language majors.

Of those who were awarded scholarships, ca. 75% were tech majors, ~9% were foreign language majors and only ~16% were non-tech.
So, OVERALL, for applicants with similar SATs, the non-tech applicants under-indexed for winning scholarships.

Interestingly, for winning Type 2 scholarships only--not for Type 1 or Type 7-- the non-tech applicants' success rate was right in line with (or even slightly above) the index ie about 30% of Type 2 were non-tech.

For Type 1, 99.9% of the scholarships go to tech majors. If you're not tech, you won't get a Type 1.
For Type 7, there's a significant bias against non-tech and a slight bias for tech and for foreign language.
You can win a Type 7 as a non-tech with a strong profile, but it appears that the process is somewhat more likely than expected to award a Type 2 to a very strong non-tech applicant.

I suspect, but can't prove, that the logic here is all about "yield" ie ensuring that the applicant who's awarded a scholarship will actually use it.

Here's how that logic would work: non-tech applicants in general may be more likely than tech applicants to seek to go out of state. This would be because of the gap in quality between the top-tier national universities such as the Ivy+ schools, which for reasons of history and cultural bias tend to be outstanding at the gentlemanly "talking" subjects (History, English, Philosophy) and not so strong as the great land-grant schools and polytechnic schools at the "non-gentlemanly" applied sciences and engineering.

So if you're a tech applicant, your local state university may actually be more competitive than an Ivy+ or other "elite" national institution--especially so if you want to study, say, Aerospace Engineering or CS. You can get a better education in those subjects at any one of dozens of state institutions around the country than you can at Harvard or Yale.

Hence the logic in giving proportionally more Type 7s to tech applicants and proportionally more Type 2s to non-tech. Just a theory, but seems logical.
 
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AROTCPMS

Former Army ROTC PMS for Claremont McKenna and USC
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unknown1961,

BLUF: Non-techs way under-index for Types 1 & 7 but over-index for Type 2; techs way over-index for Type 1 and slightly over-index for Type 7.
Best explanation would be that it's about yield. Higher yield by steering Type 2s to non-tech and Type 7s / Type 1s to tech.

Longer version:
Per the 2013 RAND study of the HSSP program and staffing needs of the Air Force, of the applicants who passed the initial AFROTC HSSP screen for SAT scores -- roughly half of whom went on to be interviewed -- ca. 65-68% intended to be tech majors, 25-28% were non-tech and 7% were foreign language majors.

Of those who were awarded scholarships, ca. 75% were tech majors, ~9% were foreign language majors and only ~16% were non-tech.
So, OVERALL, for applicants with similar SATs, the non-tech applicants under-indexed for winning scholarships.

Interestingly, for winning Type 2 scholarships only--not for Type 1 or Type 7-- the non-tech applicants' success rate was right in line with (or even slightly above) the index ie about 30% of Type 2 were non-tech.

For Type 1, 99.9% of the scholarships go to tech majors. If you're not tech, you won't get a Type 1.
For Type 7, there's a significant bias against non-tech and a slight bias for tech and for foreign language.
You can win a Type 7 as a non-tech with a strong profile, but it appears that the process is somewhat more likely than expected to award a Type 2 to a very strong non-tech applicant.

I suspect, but can't prove, that the logic here is all about "yield" ie ensuring that the applicant who's awarded a scholarship will actually use it.

Here's how that logic would work: non-tech applicants in general may be more likely than tech applicants to seek to go out of state. This would be because of the gap in quality between the top-tier national universities such as the Ivy+ schools, which for reasons of history and cultural bias tend to be outstanding at the gentlemanly "talking" subjects (History, English, Philosophy) and not so strong as the great land-grant schools and polytechnic schools at the "non-gentlemanly" applied sciences and engineering.

So if you're a tech applicant, your local state university may actually be more competitive than an Ivy+ or other "elite" national institution--especially so if you want to study, say, Aerospace Engineering or CS. You can get a better education in those subjects at any one of dozens of state institutions around the country than you can at Harvard or Yale.

Hence the logic in giving proportionally more Type 7s to tech applicants and proportionally more Type 2s to non-tech. Just a theory, but seems logical.
Very interested in where you are getting your information and who you are speaking to.
 

thibaud

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Not current info. My suppositions and inferences are my own.

The only comment or inference above that is not mine is the observation that if you aren't tech, your chances of a Type 1 are next to zero. The data support this, which was conveyed to my son by a former AFROTC Det Commander.

The source of the above data (I tried to recall these %s from memory; they may not be exactly accurate but they're directionally/proportionally accurate) is the extensive study of AF Officer Accession Planning published in 2016 by RAND. See pp. 40-42 for the discussion of HSSP data.
 

Pima

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The old stats, and I do not if it is still true were the following.
Type 1
~ 5% of all scholarships awarded.
~ 5% of those scholarships are awarded to non-tech. IE statistically 2 out of every 1000 scholarships will get a type 1 non-tech. 50 out of every 1000 will get a type 1.
Type 2
~ 15% of all scholarships awarded.
~ 5% again go to non-tech
~~ Caveat a type 7 4 yr can convert to a type 2 3 yr.
~ Mathmatically as a non-tech you are facing an uphill battle for the 4 yr. Using 1000 awarded, 150 would get Type 2. However out of that awarded only around 7 or so would get it as a non-tech.

AFROTC is a national scholarship. They could care less if 100% recipients come from only 4 states. Nor do they care about spreading the wealth to each det. If 1 det has 0 on scholarship while another has 100% on scholarship, so be it,
~ AFROTC scholarships are not like USAFA appointments. IOWS it is not geo centric and your major does not matter.
 

thibaud

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From the RAND report linked to above, below is data from FY'11. Note the acceptance rate variance. The outlier acceptance rate is Type 2, Nontechnical, at 86.4% of winners actually choosing to accept the Type 2 Nontechnical scholarship. 103 out of 369 Type 2s went to Nontechnical applicants, ca. 28%.

By giving twice as many Type 2 as Type 7 scholarships to Nontechnical applications (103 Type 2 offered vs 47 Type 7), the USAF can ensure that they get a decent yield. This enables them to achieve the desired overall acceptance rate needed to produce their target of 106 Nontechnical Scholarships Accepted (out of 612 total, or ca 17%).

Screen Shot 2019-10-29 at 12.56.41 PM.png
 

kinnem

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And now that the questioner knows all these stats... what will they do with them?
 

unkown1961

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And now that the questioner knows all these stats... what will they do with them?
I have no idea! :) I was just curious how selective these scholarships are. I know that MIT has a 7% admission rate for instance. But what does it mean that someone got a Type 2 any major award? How can the selectivity of an AFROTC or NROTC award be quantified? But the above answers some of my questions. And I thank all for the info.
 

thibaud

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I have no idea! :) I was just curious how selective these scholarships are. I know that MIT has a 7% admission rate for instance. But what does it mean that someone got a Type 2 any major award? How can the selectivity of an AFROTC or NROTC award be quantified?
Given that ca. 11,000 applications were received, and that the total # of Type 1 & Type 2 scholarships will likely be significantly less than 1,000 total, with Type 2 accounting for a bit more than half of those, the selectivity of Type 1 and Type 2 scholarships is comparable to the selectivity of MIT and the Ivy+ schools: = well below 10%, probably close to 6-7%. Type 7's selectivity is also impressive: maybe 25% of applicants.
 
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We can go into statistics all day long but this was geared more or less to help students with HSSP / ICSP and some procedure clarification if needed. If you want stats I can give you them - they won't accurately affect this year nor will it be useful.

Biggest takeaway is:
-Non-Techs can still get Type 1 and although the rate is low, it is not impossible like someone stated.
-Tech majors are more desireable but don't base your major for scholarship chances, base it off what you actually want to do.

We had issues with students switching or failing engineering which delays or prevents commissioning. At the end of the day, a bachelor's will let you become an officer, not a B.S.

Selectively can't be accurate quantified because it varies per year based off applicants that we receive. All in all, 0% chance of a scholarship if you don't apply.

Like I stated earlier, you could be an Electrical Engineering major, 4.0 GPA, 36 ACT and bombed the interview but a non-tech with 3.8, 32 ACT that killed the interview will end up taking the scholarship over you.
 

Leasebacm

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Has anyone encountered an issue or glitch when using the site to set up DoDmerb exam? After receiving scholarship son began this process. Completed the extensive health questionnaire however at end asks to esign but each time when attempting it states can not esign until all questions answered. We have gone through each and every page several times. All questions are answered and saved so not sure if there is just a glitch in site/software? Just wondered if anyone else experienced same.
Hey did you find a solution to this? I am having the exact same issue?
 

PAproud

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Sep 26, 2019
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Hey did you find a solution to this? I am having the exact same issue?
I did not find solution. My son had a conversation with one of the officers at his target school amongst other things he did mention the technical issue with the site and asked for direction. He was told to call someone at Dodmerb and report it and they would be ones to help. I am not sure if he had done that yet but I will check and follow up on here if we have a resolve.
We also we're not very clear about setting up the exam itself. Is there an identifier that we relate to the physicians office for payment or do we pay the exam fee. Not big deal either way just wasn't sure of the process and the site isn't very clear on it. Another question he can ask when calls.
 

tbbb

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Feb 9, 2019
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Good afternoon, @AFROTCAdmissions.

Would you mind clarifying whether or not we should accept the scholarship while we are awaiting school acceptances (which could be late March), or should wait until we know which schools we have been accepted to?

Is accepting the scholarship binding?

Thank you very much.
 

unkown1961

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I thought you had to wait for an admission to accept the scholarship because the portal calls for uploading a letter of admission. At least my kids did unless we misread it.
 
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Good afternoon, @AFROTCAdmissions.

Would you mind clarifying whether or not we should accept the scholarship while we are awaiting school acceptances (which could be late March), or should wait until we know which schools we have been accepted to?

Is accepting the scholarship binding?

Thank you very much.
Accepting a scholarship is binding to our program but it is not binding to school. If you accept, you are expected to participate in AFROTC at a school of your choice.
 

UFDMD

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Accepting a scholarship is binding to our program but it is not binding to school. If you accept, you are expected to participate in AFROTC at a school of your choice.
With the exception of accepting appointment to one of the service academies, correct?
 

300SBR

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My son is going for his interview within the next 2 weeks, is there any questions or resources I should go over with him?
 
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