Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by njbaseball, Jul 16, 2010.
Does anyone know how competitive it is in the state of Alabama for a nomination?
Does it make a difference? If you live in Alabama, you apply to your two senators and your congressman. It's not like you can "forum shop" for an easier nomination, unless you somehow are a legal resident of two states at the same time.
It depends on where you live.
One Congressional District is very competitive. The next District south is not.
If you like, PM me and tell me where you live and I can give you an idea of the competitiveness of your district.
Very good point. It really doesn't matter. First off with the primary nomination. For one to receive this nomination they normally have to be the best on the slate. One's environment usually defines one's competitiveness. Senators aside, which in most states, are extremely competitive, one, or at most, two nominations. The best of the best. You are competing only with your local peers so it is how you rank with them solely that is the determinant. Now, those who don't receive a primary nomination all go into the national pool where one's ranking nationally is the sole determining factor. How one ranks locally now no longer makes any difference at all. I would propose that, through a host of reasons, the more competitive the district the more competitive the candidate. In less "competitive" districts, only the primary candidate is considered. In many of the more "competitive" districts, up to as many as 10 are considered.
Bottom line, be as competitive as one can be. To do so, one must rank equal with those from the best school systems in the country. Since the more competitive districts usually have the advantge, a difficult, but not impossible, tasking.
For those candidates who may want to do further research on nominations, the correct term is PRINCIPAL nomination, not PRIMARY nomination.
"Principal" is a term used exclusively for the Principal/Alternate method of nomination. There is no official term for the most qualified of the competitive slate and, since there is none, using "principal" in this case only tends to confuse. Since we are discussing all encompassing nominations, both principal and competitive, I used the term 'primary, in lieu of a detailed explanination. I guess I could have used 'main' instead.
Read this, from TITLE 10 > Subtitle C > PART III > CHAPTER 603 > § 6954
§ 6954. Midshipmen: number
a (10) - Each Senator, Representative, and Delegate in Congress,
including the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico, is entitled
to nominate 10 persons for each vacancy that is available
to him under this section. Nominees may be submitted
without ranking or with a principal candidate
and 9 ranked or unranked alternates.
Now lets examine the next official document - http://www.policyarchive.org/handle/10207/bitstreams/2687.pdf
CRS Report for Congress - Congressional Nominations to U.S. Service Academies: An Overview and Resources for Outreach and Management
Page 7, paragraph #2 -
Nominees may be submitted in three categories: without ranking,
with a principal candidate and nine ranked alternates,
or with a principal candidate and nine unranked
alternates.6 When the Member specifies a principal candidate,
that individual will be appointed to a DOD academy as
long as he or she meets all other admission criteria.
If the principal candidate is disqualified, the service
academies will appoint the first fully qualified, ranked
alternate, if specified by the Member. In circumstances
where Members do not specify a principal candidate
or ranked alternates, one individual from among the
Member’s nominees who is found to be fully qualified
will be appointed by the academies to serve as cadets.
Now, let's go the an official USNA admissions site to see what term they use when discussing nomination types: http://www.usna.edu/Admissions/stnomussen.htm
US Senators, Representatives, and Delegates:
Each member of Congress can have five constituents attending the Naval Academy at any time. When a constituents leaves the academy, a vacancy is created. Members may use any one of the following methods to nominate candidates to fill their vacancies:
nominate 10 candidates for each vacancy, permitting the Naval Academy to evaluate and select them for admission on a competitive basis;
designate one principal nominee and nine other candidates as alternates, ranked in order of preference; or
nominate one principal nominee and nine other candidates as competitors, permitting the Naval Academy to select the alternate competitors for admission.
In each of these methods, one fully qualified nominee is offered an appointment to the Naval Academy to fill the vacancy. The remaining fully qualified nominees also are considered carefully, and many are selected for admissions to fill the entering class from a national competition of qualified alternates.
I think that "attention to detail" is of primary (pun not intended) importance here, and the correct term should used whenever giving advice to candidates.
Since the term "primary" is not used in any of these fficial documents dealing with nominations, the incorrect use of the word "primary," when talking about nomination types, can only serve to confuse candidates.
Thanks for all the info!
And Mihoser, you must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I was just asking a simple question. Got a little hatefull there.
Have a blessed day!!!
I don't think she was hateful at all. Just pointing out, correctly, I might add, that the competitiveness of a district is overrated.
Luigi, thanks for posting where you are coming from. You will notice that they all mention either Competitive OR Principal nominations. As I pointed out before, 'Principal' is not a proper term when referring to a competive as demonstrated in your link to the USNA catalog. I simply used "primary" but could have used any of another dozen terms. My post. My choice. Totally inconsequential. But again,thanks for allowing me to clarify it for you.
Not being hatefull at all - just realistic. You know what your nomination possibilities are and you have to work as hard as you can to put yourself in a postion to obtain one. The relative competitiveness of each nomination source really has nothing to do with it.
Are you implying that if a particular nomination source is too competitive you won't bother to apply for that nomination? No, I didn't think so.
Best of luck to you!
Hmm.... That's NOT how you used the term "primary." You used it to describe a TYPE of nomination:
You're not talking about anything but a specific TYPE of nomination, a PRINCIPAL nomination. And you used the term primary, which will lead to confusion as it is the INCORRECT term to use when describing a PRINCIPAL nomination.
No senator or Congressman gives out a "primary" nomination. Period. It can be a competitive nomination, a principal nomination with unranked alternates, or a principal nomination with ranked alternates. Period.
There is no such thing as a "primary" nomination.
Stop confusing the candidates with incorrect terminology.
I apoligize Mihoser! I am very new to this and I guess I took your answer the wrong way. Are you at the academy now? or do you just know alot about it.
You asked a very legitimate question.
Folks, this is a forum for information about the service academies. Thus, if somebody has all the answers they're probably not going to post a question.
In the future, let's realize that and respond to questions accordingly.
Thank you for your time.
well said TN; I took the question as the poster wanted to gauge their competition.
That's one of the problems w/ textual questions/answers...we create in our own mind how the question or answer was said and sometimes take things out of context, same thing happens in e-mails
njbaseball...welcome to the world of serviceacademyforums.com! If you think that was nasty, I would get a tougher hide before checking out some of these threads! All the best to you as you pursue your nominations/appointment to USNA!!
First, no one should have to have a "tough hide" on these boards. It is OK to ask "stupid" questions. We all need to remember that each year a new crop of candidates, parents, and others frequent these boards looking for answers and help.
As for the OP's question . . . it really doesn't matter whether your state or district is tough or easy in that, for most people, it's not changeable. Some people will find competitive districts in less competitive states whereas others will find a less competitive district in a tough state. All you can ever do is your very best. Finally, many MOCs will tell applicants how many applications they had last year. As a gauge, VA is a very competitive state. Senators receive more than 600 applications for their 10 spots. However, there are some districts within VA that aren't super competitive. Finally, remember that Senators want to "spread the wealth," so to speak, such that their nominees tend to come from throughout the state.
Thank you usna1985. I won't feel so bad when I ask any more questions.
You're a BGO - right?
I'm just curious ...
Let's say the congressman/senator decides to rank the nominees from 1-to-10. I assume the #1 nominee is considered the "principal nominee" and, if qualified, must be appointed to fill the vacancy. Correct?
What is the effect of the other nominees being ranked? It's been said that all non-principal nominees go into the national pool. Would the fact that they were ranked compel the academy to appoint them in the order they were ranked if, of course, the academy should decide to appoint any of them?
For example, after Nominee #1 gets his offer of appointment, let's say the academy really likes Nominee #6. Can they offer an appointment to Nominee #6 and bypass Nominees 2, 3 , 4, & 5?
If not, then they really are not in a "national poll" - not really.
If so, then the ranking has no practical effect.
I understand that it is extremely rare for the nominees to be ranked 1-to-10. Yet, I'm still curious.
No, I am not a BGO. The USCGA calls them Academy Admissions Partners (AAP), but basically they perform the exact same duties - visit high schools and college fairs to promote the academy, answer questions about the appointment process, interview candidates, present appointments at graduation ceremonies, etc.
As long as the candidate is qualified, yes, he will get the appointment.
The ranking comes into play when Principal Nominee (#1) is somehow found to be "not qualified" by the academy, then the #2 ranked candidate would get the appointment from that district.
All qualified nominees not selected for appointment through the congressional nomination process are considered qualified alternates for the purposes of selection by other noncongressional nominating or appointing authorities. (i.e national pool).
Assuming all 10 nominees are "qualified"...
So ... in my example, after offering an appointment to Nominee #1, the academy can offer an appointment to Nominee #6 and bypass the others? Yes?
Separate names with a comma.