Already have a nomination, go for a second?

FatherOfFive said:
If an LOA does not guarantee appointment, it should say that as well.
FoF,
I certainly hope that my continual repeating of myself is not as boring to you as it is becoming to me. Again, this is all federal law. It has nothing to do with the way the Academy treats its candidates. The LOA specifically states that the acceptance is predicated upon successful medical and physical qualification and also a nomination. The official candidate letter explains the nomination process and also links the candidate to the Acadmey catalog which outlines in detail what I have stated in the posts above. Therefore, I seriously doubt that anyone who fails to read and comprehend this would have a successful lawsuit. I therefore suggest that you find windmills elsewhere that are more tiltable.
 
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Sorry, I do not mean to bore you. In fact your legalistic arguments have convinced me that the risk marine faces by going before the academy selection board with only an LOA and a nomination is real and palpable and too large to ignore, so I am now changing my advice to agree with yours.

Marine: Go ahead and buy the meteor insurance policy like USNA 69 wants you to. In fact buy as many policies as you can get as it is clearly in your best interests do so. You may be taking a nomination from someone else, but lets face it, they probably never had a shot to make it in the first place. It would be cruel to let a person who has dreamed of going to the Naval Acdemy get a nomination only to have that dream dashed in April. It is better to let them know now that they are not going to Annapolis so they can start making other plans. After all if you don't look out for #1 who else is going to? Be sure to wear a belt and suspenders to the interview as it is always good to have a backup.

-FoF
 
Thanks Nuke,
If anyone is still uncertain of the nomination process, please feel free to PM me. It can be confusing if not understood properly. US Code Title 10, Chapter 603, Sections 6953 and 6956 explain it very well with very little "legalese" which, I suppose, I have succumed to. If one follows the procedures as outlined in the official candidate letter linked to the online catalog, they will be fine.

Bottom line, LOAs aside, until you are absolutely 100% positively sure that you are the one name linked to your MOCs single opening, keep working for all available nominations. You would end up as a qualified alternate in the national pool instead of being a primary nominee.
 
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FatherofFive,

I would suggest you listen closely to what USNA69 is saying. He not only has been through the process himself (as have I), but he is also a current BGO, so he definitely has the credentials to know how the MOC nomination labrynth works.

From my perspective (Alumni, but not BGO), I would recommend that your kid pursue EVERY possible nomination source, PERIOD. You are not playing a game, here. A nomination is all but mandatory for an appointment, and it stands to reason that an applicant should apply and go for every possible chance to get a nomination, or more than one.

Call me cynical, but what happens if your MOC suddenly finds out that he made a mistake and is over quota? What if they sent out the wrong draft of the letter? What if..... ? You get the point.

Grab EVERY opportunity. While I was at NAPS, I got a SECNAV nomination automatically. I STILL applied to my MOC and got the Primary nomination that year. No bureaucratic SNAFU was going to ruin MY dream.

Listen to my shipmate USNA69. His advice here has been golden.


ETA: Also, you don't have a nomination OR an appointment until you have pieces of paper in hand that say so in the affirmative. Just because something DOESN'T say something doesn't mean it IS true. It just means the letter is silent on the issue. Don't make leaps of logic with this. The path is clear-cut and navigated by thousands of applicants each year. It is what it is, as dictated by Federal law.

Welcome to the Service: you can't beat the System; you just have to make it work for you.
 
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Son recieved his nomination today from Senator Feingold. Interestingly, in the letter is the advice that our son NOT stop interviewing for other nominations. Even with an LOA and Feingold's nomination, the letter explains how there is the possibility of not getting an appointment from the Senators nomination, so all avenues should continue to be pursued.
 
With a Senators nomination and a LOA it would be highly unusual if your son didn't get an appointment; my non-expert opinion is that it's in the bag and that you should be preparing to celebrate when the appointment comes through. Last year, at about this time of year, my son with a LOA and nomination was asked not to pursue another nomination to give others a chance, the inference being he was already in.

That being said, and knowing that things are constantly changing, it would be very wise to follow the Senators advice.
 
This is how I see it:

Stealth's son is on a list with 10 other candidates for ONE appointment. His senator either uses the competitive method or he is not the #1 principal. If he was the #1 principal nominee then he will be offered an appointment provided he is triple qualified.
One person on the list of ten gets an appointment the rest go into the National Pool.
So if he gets a nomination from his CP then he is on another list and his chances are increased for an appointment. If he is ranked #1 by his CP or by the academy (competitive process) then he gets an appointment. Otherwise he goes into the National Pool.

Our CP requests kids who get other Nominations to notify his office, I think if they get a Nomination from a Senator then he won't bother to nominate and allow another candidate to be on the slate. Presumably his way of maximizing nominations, giving him brownie points in his district. When you really think about it - that doesn't help the individual at all gain an appointment. It just increased the number in the national pool. Certainly if a candidate gets a Senator's Principle nomination he doesn't need another but otherwise he does.

They say you only need ONE nomination to get an appointment, and that is true. However, you don't know which one you NEED until you get the appointment.
Cover you bases - go for all available nominations- no matter what.
 
Just_a_Mom, you make an excellent point. Some congress people do rank their candidates and nominations, though most I believe, do not. Based on the Senators advice it seems likly that Feingold either rates candidates or the son in question has received a "form" letter from Feingold which fails to recognize his LOA status.

But yeah; extra nominations can't hurt unless you've been advised otherwise.
 
Ohhh I see what you are saying - because he has a LOA he will not be treading water in the National Pool.
An LOA is contingent on receiving a nomination. He technically doesn't have a nomination unless he is principle or ranks above the other 9 on the list. Since he has a Senator's nomination covering the entire state of California- what happens if there are three (or 9) other kids on the list with LOA's? Only one can be charged to the Senator. The rest go into the National Pool.
Stealth's son must compete with everyone in the National Pool for a nomination.
Once never knows how many nominations are available from the National Pool since it is comprised of open congressional slots.
Better to be safe than sorry. Go for all nominations.
 
And now that I have read the posts from the beginning all I have to add is:

Dress nice and be sharp!
 
The letter that son received states that the Senator submits names on a competitive basis, with the Academy making the decision which of the 10 nominees it will offer an appointment. There is no mention of the LOA in the letter. It does say that the Academy will be contacting him in the near future regarding his candidate file. Clear as mud.

To add to the confusion, here is part of an email that son received this morning from his ALO, who obviously knew about the nomination:

"Congratulations N*********! You only need one nomination, so I think you have all the squares filled for the AF Academy! Your letter of assurance promised admission pending your nomination, which you now have. Now the only thing left to do is (sign the acceptance letter and) show up! We are very lucky to have a fine person, like yourself, attending the AFA. Thank YOU!"

That sounds pretty positive to me...and I would guess that an ALO would know. Now I know what all the other parents have said over the past year about the waiting part.

PS We are in Wisconsin, not California!
 
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Sounds like barring bedrock fallin' on his foot between now and late June, he's in like flint!

Congrats, way to go, 3 cheers for young men like yours.
 
Stealth_81 said:
The letter that son received states that the Senator submits names on a competitive basis, with the Academy making the decision which of the 10 nominees it will offer an appointment. There is no mention of the LOA in the letter. It does say that the Academy will be contacting him in the near future regarding his candidate file. Clear as mud.
If he is the top ranked #1 of the 10 then he has the nomination.

To add to the confusion, here is part of an email that son received this morning from his ALO, who obviously knew about the nomination:

"Congratulations N*********! You only need one nomination, so I think you have all the squares filled for the AF Academy! Your letter of assurance promised admission pending your nomination, which you now have. Now the only thing left to do is (sign the acceptance letter and) show up! We are very lucky to have a fine person, like yourself, attending the AFA. Thank YOU!"

That sounds pretty positive to me...and I would guess that an ALO would know.


Now I know what all the other parents have said over the past year about the waiting part.

PS We are in Wisconsin, not California! OOppps! Sorry -

Nothing against Cheeseheads but if you are from Wisconsin that certainly lessens the competition.
My limited experience has led me to believe that ALO's, BGO's and MALO's are like recruiters- you can trust 'em until they open their mouth. No offense to anyone on this board - of course. But they do have a tendency to tell you what you want to hear.
Seriously, your son is probably 99% in. There have been cases where candidates with LOA's and "nominations" and not gotten appointments. If he pursues his congressional nomination and is ranked #1 then he will be offered a Nomination for sure. Since you are from Wisconsin that sounds like a good possibility. Take your chances - 99% vs 100%
 
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Nominations

My son received a letter from Admissions him that he had received a Presidential Nomination. The letter went on to say, "I also urge you to seek nominations from your local congressman and your state senators." Then, my son received an e-mail from one of our senators to set up his nomination interview and inquired whether he had applied for a Presidential Nomination. When they learned that he had received a Presidential Nomination, the e-mail stated, "With this nomination, he doesn't need ours and it would only take a nomination from another candidate. Therefore, he also does not need to be interviewed by our office, unless he just wants to. If he does, let me know and I will arrange it - I can do that interview myself. Congratulations."

I am just confused why that the letter said to continue seeking nominations from the senator, but the senator disqualified him from that process. The MALO that recently interviewed him had also said to continue trying to get the senator nomination even though he had received a Presidential Nomination. The problem is that one year there were 700 Presidential Nominations with only 100 Presidential Appointments, so receiving a Senator's nomination with a 1 in 10 chance would have been better odds.
 
concernedmom said:
I am just confused why that the letter said to continue seeking nominations from the senator, but the senator disqualified him from that process. The MALO that recently interviewed him had also said to continue trying to get the senator nomination even though he had received a Presidential Nomination. The problem is that one year there were 700 Presidential Nominations with only 100 Presidential Appointments,

The Senator which you elected to office has just done you a terrible injustice. He is incorrect in his assumptions. Maybe a phone call from your MALO to his office might clear things up. Your "numbers" example above is perfect. The President is required by federal law to grant nominations to all sons and daughters of career military personnel, among others. He is also limited by law to only giving 100 appointments from this source. All others go into the national pool. In your example alone, 600 are added to the pool. These alone are much greater than taken from the pool annually from all sources.

Also, Stealth's ALO is making an assumption of which the candidate may end up in the national pool if his nomination is not the primary one which marries a single seat at USAFA to a single primary nomination either as determined by the MOC or the Academy Admissions Office.

As J_A_M has stated above, candidates "drown" in the national pool. It is far better to have a confirmed primary nomination and get an appointment in the initial process. Someone earlier in this thread was incorrectly thinking that the Academys should be sued if the sysem works as advertised and someone is legitimetly elimated in the pool. I think as taxpaying voters who placed these MOCs in office, they have a legal obligation to consider all available candidates in their districts. When they start playing "games", perhaps not understanding the intricates of the process, and candidates lose, they should be held accountable.

I was talking to a candidate a couple of days ago who thought he had it made because he had a NJROTC nomination. Federal law limits this acquistion source to 20 candidates nationwide annually. That makes the 1 in 10 and the 100 in 700 odds look great.

Primary candidate and primary nomination is the one of ten that is either selected by the MOC or, in the case of competitive nominations, the Admissions Office. All others, including even those with LOAs, go into the national pool and get whats left. Federal law is VERY specific as to how these candidates are offered appointments from the pool. Keep in mind the demographics of your district. Being over simplific, there are places in the country where a decent package and a 1300 combined SAT will get a primary nomination. There are other places where the same credentials may not even rate an interview. These latter candidates will be in the national pool.

DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO GET AN EARLY NOMINATION AND STAY OUT OF THE POOL. APPLY FOR EVERY SOURCE AVAILABLE.
 
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Just an update to earlier post. Senator Feingold's office called son this afternoon to let him know that the Air Force Academy had contacted the Senator's office today to let them know they had chosen him for an APPOINTMENT! I guess now I can relax a little? (just a little?)

Stealth_81
 
You can relax a lot. The appointment is IT. Congratulations to you both. Wrap him in bubble wrap. If you really cannot handle relaxing, I can tell you my son's car surfing episode.
 
Probable Stealth-81 son's acceptance scenario:
1. He applied to Senator Feingold for a nomination.
2. He was accepted by the Senator's office for an interview.
3. After all the interviews, Senator Feingold selected 10 candidates for the nomination and forwarded them to the Academy.
4. At this time the selection process was totally out of the Senator's control. He properly told Stealth-81's son that he should continue with all possible nominations.
5. The Academy received Senator Feingold's 10 candidates. Based on merit alone, they selected his son as the primary nomination. What I find intriguing is that the Academy had sufficient information on all 10 candidates at this time in order to make their decision. A good reason for everyone to get their application completed early. His son was triple qualified (academically, physically, and medically) so he was awarded an Appointment. The remaining nine candidates, perhaps some with LOAs, barring a primary nomination from another source, will go into the national pool.

His ALO, when making the "you have your nomination" comment did not have the Academy results. The Academy will pass it to the MOC several days before the ALO is aware of it in order to give the MOC the opportunity to make the initial announcement. Therefore, reluctantly, I have to agree with J_A_M. Sometimes we BGOs and ALOs don't know what we are talking about.
 
I just had to add one more thing on this thread, since the topic was originally whether to go for a secong nomination. My son got Feingold's nomination, and received an appointment. He signed and accepted his appointment before Christmas. During the week after Christmas, he got a phone call from our Congressional Rep's assistant wanting to schedule an interview. He explained to them that he already had an nomination, and an appointment, and he had already accepted it. The assistant congratulated him and said goodbye.

Well....today he got a letter from the Congressional Rep. congratulating him, and letting him know that he had received the Rep's nomination to the Academy. Isn't this a waste of a nomination? Will it just automatically go to the next candidate in line? Why would the Rep nominate someone who had already gotten a nom. plus and appointment, and had already accepted it?
Is there something that I am missing?
 
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