Am I Competitive?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by freshavocado, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. freshavocado

    freshavocado Member

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    Hey everyone, I was wondering if you could give me any suggestions on improving my application/resume. Thanks!
    I’m a 17 year old rising senior from Kansas.

    Academics:

    Class Rank: After first semester junior year, i was ranked 28 out of 386. Following second semester, i don’t know my class rank, but my GPA did increase, so i’m assuming i’m still in the top 10% of my class.

    GPA: Unweighted - 4.00. Weighted - 4.52

    ACT: 35 (35 english, 34 math, 34 reading, 36 science) and 11 on writing

    Have taken 5 AP classes so far, will take 3 more next year.

    Have received Principals Honor Roll all 6 semesters up until now, and received Academic Letters all three years up until now.

    Summa Cum Laude on National Latin Exam (NLE): 9th, 11th
    Maxima Cum Laude on NLE: 10th

    Athletics:

    Cross Country (C): 9th, 10th, 12th
    Track (JV): 9th, 11th, 12th
    Weight Training and Conditioning: 12th

    CFA from NASS:
    Pull-ups: 14
    Situps: 56
    Pushups: 75
    Shuttle Run: 8.8
    BBall Throw: 56ft
    Mile: 7:24

    I plan on retaking the CFA to improve my situps, mile, and basketball throw especially, after a couple months of weights and cross country this fall.

    Extracurriculars/Leadership Positions/Volunteer:

    Boy Scout - have been Quartermaster
    National Honors Society (NHS)
    Math NHS
    Science NHS
    Latin NHS
    Political Science Club
    President of Latin Club
    Vice President of Kansas Junior Classical League
    Mustang Mentor (mentor freshmen class)
    Junior Math and Science Tutoring Club
    Senior Class Treasurer
    Student Council
    Orchestra (9, 10, 11, 12) (also a Council Member)
    Teachers Assistant at Korean School

    Work Experience:
    Chick-fil-A Team Member (10th, 11th): ~5 hours a week during the school year
    Cactus Grill Busser (11th, 12th): ~8 hours a week during the school year

    I know the main thing I lack in is my Athletics. Other than that, thanks to all who spent the time looking through to the end!
     
  2. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Freshavocado. You look like at the top of the food chain academically, SCHOLAR 55%. Your ACT is equivalent to 1600 by USNA and NROTC. So you don’t have to impress no more academically to SAs.

    Athletically 10%, you seem involved but not clear if you can stand out among others. Little on the weak side compared to ones I have seen who are strong. So would be great if you can demonstrate leadership with team captain and awards at the county level even better at the state level. In your case better CFA maybe more important since you can control that. I’m surprised your run time is bit low given that you are doing track. But then again track is sprinting and event driven, not long distance endurance sports.

    Your leadership 35% appears more academic related. You want to demonstrate multi-dimensional leadership. You don’t have to impress academically because you already are very impressive academically. I hope you can get your Eagle by December and you should have done Boys State this summer.

    Then there is Nomination and DODMERB. Nom I wouldn’t worry about it. Since you’re Korean from Kansas you may not have too many other Koreans or Asians to compete against in your district. Asians have 7% slot in the SA Class. So about 90 Asians in the incoming class, about 65 men 25 women. About 40 are Ethnically Korean males in the class of 2022 at USNA. Academies want diversity among Asians as well so you will have to win a slot among top 40 Korean males in the country. So you may even have to be the top Korean male in Kansas since there are many top Korean male candidates from California, New York, New Jersey, and VA. More accurately you want to be the top Korean American male in your Congressional District.

    Overall, I’m not sure about your competitiveness to USNA. To be honest, your strongest suit is Academic Merit. I would work on getting non academic leadership role this fall. Your best demonstrated leadership would be making Eagle with leadership positions in Scouting. And having gone to Boys State as a Delegate. That would seal your leadership solid. As a Scoutmaster, I would not count Quartermaster in Scouting to be a senior leadership post in Troop. Unless your Troop is a Super Troop with 60-100 Scouts. It would be better to talk about PL, Troop Guide, ASPL, SPL, JASM experience. If you have been in Scouting a short while that is not going to impress Admissions. If just started Scouting you may have been better to start Venturing with Summit Award Rank possible in 2 years if you are all in. You can run for and be elected into a Vice President role in Venturing. Treasure role is redundant for you. Summit Award Rank is separately recognized by USNA and NROTC as on par with Eagle Scout.

    Be sure to apply to top selective schools with ROTC Scholarship. In reality that can be your plan A instead. USNA and SAs want Scholars but they want that Scholar to have just as stellar Leadership and Athletically prepared. In my opinion, you will have excellent chance getting admitted to some Ivies and highly selective schools with your stats. If you earn an average 3.5 on your 5 APs with no less than 3 on all 5 then you become an AP Scholar with Distinction. You can add that to your academic credentials. Not that you need it for the SAs, only for placements. So save your money.

    If somehow one of the Academies give you an LOA, that’s your ticket to that SA. Take it and charge your Nom to that school. It is a guaranteed Appointment. Otherwise, you will have to wait nervously from Jan-mid March. Once you enter late March you are competing more likely in the SA’s NWL which becomes even more difficult to get Appointment since NWL Appointments first go to Prepsters, Foundation School grads, and college applicants. Other Posters please correct me if I’m wrong.

    I hope this was helpful to get your thoughts in order and plans for the fall.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
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  3. freshavocado

    freshavocado Member

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    Thank you so much! I forgot to add that I did go to Boys State this summer and was elected a Rep and National Guardsman.

    My run time is a little slow since I mainly pole vault in Track.
     
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  4. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 5-Year Member

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    @CrewDad, I applaud your willingness to provide input on many aspects of the process.

    There are several things there is just no way to know for sure - such as how candidate comparison on the National Waiting List works in terms of prioritization across various candidate categories.
    I have always assumed USNA sets aside X NAPS seats and Y Foundation Scholar seats as a planning factor, given the assumption if those candidates complete their prep satisfactorily, meet all other requirements including a nom, they will be offered an appointment. I don’t know that for a fact, because I haven’t found it anywhere on a primary USNA.edu or USNA.com site.

    As far as an LOA goes, that has nothing to do directly with the nom process, and where USNA eventually charges the nom. For USNA in particular, it is unique among the SAs that its LOA does not absolutely guarantee an offer of appointment. There are several threads that highlight that, along with the link to the legal code.

    I agree that all the SAs desire diversity across many criteria, but I don’t think it can be narrowed down to an actual percentage or a number. What’s true for one class in one year, might not be true for another. Diversity is just another factor to rack and stack against elements in the whole person approach.

    What all aspiring candidates should realize is that here on SAF, it’s all opinion (including mine!), rooted in perception, observation near and far, experience old and new and a dash of swag. No one here, as far as I know, posts officially for SA Admissions, at least for USNA. You can get great personal insights, recommendations galore, lots of sea stories (guilty!), but it’s opinion, so weight it appropriately.

    The OP may benefit from doing searches on “chance me” and “statistics” threads just to get a feel for what various candidates bring to the table. There is the tangible stuff, like grades and scores and ranks and awards and positions, but there are many intangible factors that go into the art and science of building a Service Academy class.

    And when you candidates read all the Super Man and Wonder Woman “stats,” do NOT think you can’t play in that pool. Not every single candidate is that blindingly stellar in every aspect. As many posters have noted over the years, “100% of those who do not apply, do not get in.”

    One of the best pieces of advice, seen everywhere on SAF, is be working on Plan B, possibly C and D, in parallel with SA applications. A lot of people with apparently killer applications do not get offered an appointment, and it’s not necessarily clear why.

    Here’s some insight on USNA Class of 2022 profile, sourced from the USNA Foundation, as of 6/27, the day before Induction Day (so there will have been a drop in some numbers):

    THE NAVAL ACADEMY CLASS OF 2022 (as of June 27, 2018):

    PROJECTED CLASS SIZE: APPLICATIONS:

    Men.................. 873 Men……… 11,576 Majority….10,047

    Women.............. 338 Women…….. 4,510 Minority ….6,039

    Total............... 1,211 Total. . . . . . . 16,086

    WOMEN & MINORITIES:

    The Class of 2022 includes 338 women (28%) and a total of 438 minority midshipmen (36%).

    GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION

    Midshipmen were admitted from every state in the Nation, as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, and Puerto Rico.

    INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS:

    The Class of 2022 also includes 14 international students from:

    Cambodia (1), Cameroon (2), Egypt (1), The Gambia (2), Korea (1), Madagascar (1), Malaysia (1), Mongolia (2), Romania (1), Taiwan (1), and Thailand (1).

    ALUMNI SONS AND DAUGHTERS:

    The Class of 2022 includes 48 sons and 19 daughters of Naval Academy alumni.

    EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND:

    The Class of 2022 includes 28% from college and post‑high school preparatory programs, which include:

    208 from Naval Academy Preparatory School (NAPS) in Newport, R.I.
    48 from the U.S. Naval Academy Foundation Program/Civilian Prep Program.
    86 students have completed at least six months of study at a college or university.
    MILITARY BACKGROUND

    TOTAL FORMER ENLISTED:

    Navy................... 48

    Marine Corps…… 12

    Total......................

    Here’s the link if the numbers aren’t aligning in your device:
    https://www.usna.edu/NewsCenter/201...Y CLASS OF 2022 STATS as of June 27, 2018.php
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  5. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    CrewDad has great advice but need to clarify one thing: An LOA guarantees nothing. It provides assurance that appointment will be offered IF, and only IF, a contingency can be addressed to the academy’s satisfaction. That is true for USNA, USMA, USAFA. Each year, some who receive an LOA are unable to address the contingency and do not receive appointment.

    DD received an LOA from three academies, for three very different reasons. The first came in mid February, the third in late April. Moral of the story is, don’t make an LOA your goal. They are rare, unpredictable and not guarantees of anything.
     
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  6. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Thank you for adding that in MidCakePa. Yes LOA is a Conditional Offer. It is rare and nice to have for planning. Reasons for the LOA vary by candidates. But the final goal is the Appointment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
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  7. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Thank you CPT MJ. You make excellent points in many areas. I agree there is no one size fits all. Admission to the Academy and colleges you apply have thematic similarities they seek in candidates but it really is a personal one how you get an offer to each.

    Your personal circumstances and story can also impact Admissions decisions. I’ve seen and met low SAT ACT and GPA get into Yale Harvard. Likewise to USNA USMA USAFA. And these things change year on year. These candidates offered other uniqueness in their Apps that grabbed attention. So you can only submit your best with your best prepared package. Good luck.
     
  8. time2

    time2 10-Year Member

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    For all those who keep asking 'what are my chances?', you might also review the hundreds of older threads asking the same question to do a self-assessment of how you compare to those other applicants. USNA website contains class profile information which is also good for comparison purposes. The WCS formula varies by academy and USNA has never publically revealed their formula. Each year you find some on here who got an appointment to one SA, but a TWE from another, so clearly they are not exactly the same.

    USNA no longer tells applicants if they are 3Q, so at least some of the confusion on the LOA topic in the past was due to those who ASSUMED they would be 3Q and perhaps were not.
     
  9. THParent

    THParent Member

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    The thing that stands out to me is your mile time.
    If you're a male cross country runner, you should be able to run a single 6 minute mile easily.
    The max goal of 5:20 is 80 seconds per lap. If you can't string four of those together, that needs to be your goal.
    You need to run more. Running is a common exercise in the military.

    The 35 on the ACT is great. Colleges should be lining up to give you academic scholarships.
    A lot of colleges will waive the application fee and offer early admission for academic standouts such as yourself.
    My DS had a 35, and turned down scholarships to accept his Offer of Appointment. It was a great position to be in!
    Consider applying to NROTC as your back-up plan. There are many fine colleges with great NROTC programs, which will get you to Ensign rank in the same four years as USNA.

    Attain the rank of Eagle Scout, and continue to help in the Troop until you age out.
    Many of the applicants you will be competing against in your district, will be Eagle Scouts.

    And, you need to run more.
     
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  10. ders_dad

    ders_dad Member

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    I agree with CrewDad that Quartermaster is not as significant a leadership position as SPL (SPL is also an elected position), but DS notes that the application does provide check-offs under Boy Scouts for Eagle, SPL, JASM, AS (for those 18 & over), and Quartermaster. IMHO, Quartermaster can be a significant leadership position if you can show that you did something with it beyond making sure the patrol boxes are loaded in the trailer. DS was ASPL of Quartermasters at NYLT last week and it was a huge logistical challenge and involve overseeing 6 Quartermaste staff, equipment, and food for 250 staff & participants. So, if you have a big Troop, I would make the most of that position.

    And get your Eagle! No excuses.
     
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  11. freshavocado

    freshavocado Member

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    Okay, I cant get my Eagle anymore because of the time in rank requirements. I’m a first class scout but I can get my Star rank very soon because all I need is my board of review (this is because i joined the scouting program through a newly created troop the summer after freshman year). Is it still worth aiming for Life? So far, my plan is just to get as close to Eagle as possible and be elected SPL or ASPL this next semester.
     
  12. Old Navy BGO

    Old Navy BGO 5-Year Member

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    I'm a big supporter of Boy Scouts ... did it all as a kid, and on Board for local Council. From the Boy Scout perspective, I would say do everything you can do as a Scout. The experiences will help you throughout life.

    It's too bad that you are timed out from earning Eagle. Looks like you got a late start, so its not your fault, but the hard truth is that Eagle is the only Scout rank that really carries any long term weight. As I told one of my law partners' son as he was stalled as a Life Scout his senior year, with the clock ticking, nobody will care 20 years from now that you were a Life Scout.
     
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  13. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Well said ders_dad. It is clear your DS was a NYLT Camp Staff Quartermaster which is at a different level all together. You have to be honest and creative how you utilize your position time and talent. This very resourcefulness is what Academies, colleges, and future employers/military want to see in you in demonstrated leadership. Active leadership not a passive one checking the mark on your applications. Schools and employers can see that right through. Anything significant in your life/activities, Schools expect you to incorporate them into your personal statements. If you don’t have a story it wasn’t that important.
     
  14. CrewDad

    CrewDad Member

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    Given your circumstances you will not make Eagle. No time. Unfortunately you didn’t plan well. You could have made Eagle before 18 if you stayed more active and aggressive to compete for leadership positions in your Troop. Technically there is no time placed on how long it takes to earn First Class. You can earn it less than a year if you were super active and your Troop is always doing something. You took it very slow. One of my boys in Troop earned his Eagle in 2.5 years. We only let him speed through because he was moving overseas. Better if you earn Eagle over 4 years. It’s better to cook in medium temperature. Don’t recommend anything sooner than 3 years. My DS earned it as he was finishing out 8th grade. He earned it in 3 years. I made him wait until he turned 14. 13 is too young to be an Eagle. Even 14 is young. A week after his birthday we boarded him and he started a new Crew with 3 fellow Eagle Scouts and 3 new Crew members.

    IMHO your better option now is getting a Summit Award Rank. You can complete Summit through age 20 and before you turn 21. You can finish at the Academy and work with Eagle Scouts at the Academy to run Scout Camps. Remember Eagle Scout and Summit Scout are service personal development and citizenship leadership achievement ranks. This is why we recognize the rank nationally. Not meant to be show and tell Rank Award to self serve.

    You may not make Summit before I-Day or R-Day but you can certainly run for President or VP in your Crew. NROTC and USNA have places in their Apps to make your mark. If you are serious about finishing Scouting that’s what I would do at this point. Otherwise you will be another Star or Life Scout who didn’t make Eagle. There is Life Scout JASM SPL designation in USNA and NROTC Apps so yes you can continue through Life if you want.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  15. ThePatternisFull

    ThePatternisFull Member

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    You have no chance if you don't apply. These questions on what are my chances are silly. No one here knows if you have what it takes to gain an Appt. to USNA or other academies. Just put together the best package you can and let the chips fall when they may! There is no magic process, plan or pill for an Appt. Good luck to you. Just first apply.
     
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  16. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

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    I have to admit that I chucked when I read this post. My DS was on the cross country team and was a TERRIBLE runner! Our school offered 2 fall sports - cross country and football. He didn't want to play football, so cross country was it for him. At NASS he ran a 7:58 mile, which shocked me that he even passed the CFA. In the end, he was offered an LOA and an appointment to USNA, which clearly wasn't based upon his running ability. LOL He ended up at West Point and is a rising Firstie, where he still does not love running, by the way, but has never had an issue with his PT test, timed ruck marches or any other long-distance endurance tests.
     
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  17. THParent

    THParent Member

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    Glad to hear it.
    Clearly, I may be fixated on what's good for a mile time. :D