Another career bites the dust due to stupidity

[Luigi59]

But CDR Honors told us on the video that "the admiral and the captain have no idea about the content of these videos and should not be held accountable in any judicial sense."

 

[Bullet]

When my mother-in-law visited over the holiday season, she brought this awesome sweet-bread from her local bake shop with her. (Bakeries in the NY/NJ area are just fantastic!) Too big for the whole family to eat before it got stale, so she recommended I make French Toast with the bread.

Boy, was it delicious! I'll have to try adding egg-nog to mix next time. Got me a hankerin' for some sweet french toast!

 

[Pima]

Bullet the bread was called Babka!

 

[AF6872]

Ok Ok Bread is bread and any good baker in a local bakery can make the best fresh bread for French Toast. Pizza is not Pizza and where is the best? Far enough afield for this thread? You don't put egg nog on it to make it the best. List your best Pizza: Pepe's not allowed.

 

[Mongo]

I suddenly feel somewhat vindicated:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/01/navy-captain-owen-honors-fires-back-013111w/

True fighter pilots (f-14s) are different. Thank God they're still around. And go down fighting.

For all of you who thought that the Captain and Admiral not knowing was not part of the joke:

Honors, who produced the videos while he was executive officer of the carrier Enterprise in 2006 and 2007, wrote that the ship’s two commanding officers, two strike group admirals “and myriad other senior military and civilian distinguished visitors” were aware of the videos.

Honors also wrote that the videos often came up during Sunday meetings with the ship’s CO and other warfare commanders, and the discussion “just about always” involved “the content of the previous ‘XO Movie Night’ skit.”

“I have also had many one-on-one conversations with each of the senior officers mentioned above about the ‘XO Movie Night’ skits,” Honors wrote in the 15-page statement, signed and dated Jan. 12 and obtained by Navy Times. “Their acknowledgement of the videos indicated their awareness of the videos, their knowledge of individual video contents evidenced their viewing of the videos, and their consistent encouraging feedback constituted approval and affirmation that my conduct was within acceptable Navy standards as the ship’s executive officer.”

 

[Bullet]

For the love of all that is Holy, please, just let it go.

We already have another thread to give us a headache over....

 

[Mongo]

For the love of all that is Holy, please, just let it go.

Sorry. No.

No one is forcing you to read it. It IS noteworthy. And very important to some of us. It IS about the military.

OBTW, you started it. Just because it might not be going your way doesn't give you the option of closing it. Another poster on another thread stated that his being railroaded was a major topic at USNA right now.

And please spare us your french toast recipes.

 

[Bullet]

Sorry. No.

No one is forcing you to read it. It IS noteworthy. And very important to some of us. It IS about the military.

OBTW, you started it. Just because it might not be going your way doesn't give you the option of closing it. Another poster on another thread stated that his being railroaded was a major topic at USNA right now.

And please spare us your french toast recipes.

Do you really want to go there?

Do you really want to know what I think about an officer who takes his defense to the press in order to bring down his superiors for his own stupidity?

And what do you know how I feel about "going my way"? "My way" would prefer to let this black eye for the entire miltiary mercifully be forgotten and moved on from; it's hurt us enough and made the profession of arms that I love, and the folks in that profession, look like fools. Instead, you'd rather dreg up any and all argument that his cause is just, when your opinion on the matter (and in fact, all military members' opinion on the matter) doesn't count. It is THE PUBLIC's opinion on the matter here, and all this idiot is doing is making us look worse by dragging everyone down into the sewer with him.

And if you don't like my french toast recipes (which are superb, BTW), you don;t have to read them either....

 

[Mongo]

Do you really want to know what I think about an officer who takes his defense to the press in order to bring down his superiors for his own stupidity?

Not particularly. Had you bothered to read my link you would have found out that this information was from a signed sworn statement which he was required to make to the investigators and that it was leaked to the Navy Times by unknown sources.

So are you saying that Naval Officers should lie to investigators to protect their seniors or are you insuiating that Captain Honors leaked ths information himself?

 

[kp2001]

Folks let's be careful. The ice on this pond is thawing as we speak and we wouldn't want anyone to fall in.

As I have said many, many times before: If one needs to use the word 'you' in their post then they likely need to rethink making that post.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Bullet - I am puzzled by your resistance to follow up. If you want the truth then you must accept all information from all sources.
This is America and we don't generally try folks in the Court of Public Opinion. When we do it usually turns out badly.

If Capt Honor's claims are to be found to be true - so far there is no evidence he is a liar and a cheat - then it will be interesting to see how many heads roll.
Conceivably every officer and NCO who saw the video's and laughed or ignored any complaints from sailors they supervise are guilty. Capt Honor's could not have covered this up by himself all these years.
If the Navy Times chooses to publish Capt Honor's 15 page report, I would be willing to peruse it. Hopefully, those named in it will be afforded their own opportunity to explain.
If we truly want to see this situation corrected - so that it does not repeat itself; then we need to look at all aspects of this case.
Stay tuned..............

 

[Pima]

In the end of the day does anyone here believe that his career is not over?

It is over and he cannot retrieve it.

The lesson learned is not for him, but for future officers on how one mis-step will impact your life as a military officer and how it will impact your brethren.

He is innocent, he is not innocent.

Bullet is right, move on, let the Navy determine the fate of those involved.

Why bring it up again?

According to Mongo he stated the reason why in his 1st line and it was:

I suddenly feel somewhat vindicated:

So it really wasn't about Honors that brought this back on topic, but his need for vindication.

Bullet responded just let it go.

The "And please spare us your french toast recipes." was not meant in kindness, however, Mongo...
obviously missed how it started because that started as tongue in cheek when the Mods asked to calm it down back at post 191...CC stated he liked French toast on post 192 to divert.

Let it go and I say that for every poster. Honors family is suffering the pain in their real life, and if they googled their name do you think they get any peace when they are looking at lost job opportunities are lower retirement pay?

It appears to me if you want to keep the fight going whether he was wrong or right, you are missing the real issue. Your or my opinion means squat. His and his family dreams ended when this hit GMA. It is their life, let them move on. Mongo's vindication on this site will not impact their life at all.

I have to ask why bring this up at all? Please link me something that says Honors is fighting the charges, not how some fighter pilots agree with what he did. Show me that and than I will agree that this thread should be revived.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

So now we are arguing about posting an update? Good Lord.
If you don't want to read the article that was published in the Navy Times and an update on a Military issue then don't. Don't partake in the discussion.
Pima it is apparent to me that from reading your comment, you did not read the article. Pima - what charges?? Were charges brought against Capt Owens? I did not know that, can you link that please?


Here is an update from the Virginian Pilot:
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/01/honors-lawyer-says-ousted-commander-wont-leave-navy
If you want to comment read the article, if you do not want to read the article refrain from commenting.

Capt. Owen Honors intends to stay in the Navy and probably won’t face further punishment for producing a series of controversial videos aboard the aircraft carrier Enterprise because they were condoned by his superiors, Honors’ civilian lawyer said today.
In a phone interview with The Virginian-Pilot, attorney Charles Gittins said the videos were in line with standards for acceptable behavior at the time and that at least five Navy admirals who saw them never raised objections.
“If they violated standards so clearly, how could five admirals have missed that?” Gittins said.

Again .....
five Navy admirals who saw them never raised objections.

 

[Pima]

OMG

Pima - what charges?? Were charges brought against Capt Owens? I did not know that, can you link that please?

Please show me where I actually said charged? I said he is innocent, not-innocent. You read into it more than I intended. My intention was to say leave it up to the Navy if they charge him.

This is now insane and inane. G almighty why the F in this world are you giving a crap? This family who dedicated 20+ yrs of moving around the world has to address financial aspects, and outsider's opinions! Your life is not impacted, Mongo's is not impacted, mine is not impacted. The only people who should give a crap is the Honors family!

He served and protected this country for 20+ yrs, thank him and move on. I am so thankful to him and his family.

I also feel for them, but not as much as others, SORRY I don't expect 45 yo men to behave like 25 yo's. I expect them to act like 45 yos and mentor the youth to not be stupid! Their job is to groom future leaders. Cut me a break.

FYI, JAM, he is not Capt Owens, but Capt Owen HONORS.

 

[Bullet]

Bullet - I am puzzled by your resistance to follow up. If you want the truth then you must accept all information from all sources.
This is America and we don't generally try folks in the Court of Public Opinion. When we do it usually turns out badly.

If Capt Honor's claims are to be found to be true - so far there is no evidence he is a liar and a cheat - then it will be interesting to see how many heads roll.
Conceivably every officer and NCO who saw the video's and laughed or ignored any complaints from sailors they supervise are guilty. Capt Honor's could not have covered this up by himself all these years.
If the Navy Times chooses to publish Capt Honor's 15 page report, I would be willing to peruse it. Hopefully, those named in it will be afforded their own opportunity to explain.
If we truly want to see this situation corrected - so that it does not repeat itself; then we need to look at all aspects of this case.
Stay tuned..............

Why does that scene from Godfather III keep playing in my noggin?

"Just when I thought I was out, they PULL ME BACK IN!"

Jam, what's the need to follow-up here? I was one of the first to mention that this investigation wouldn't stop with just Capt Honors. We all knew it would eventually lead to a much deeper scandal than just one XO.

As to wanting the truth? Well, it seems some here really can't handle some of the truths being presented. THAT is what frustrates me -- this being a place where future military leaders might get their first introduction to concepts we hold dear like honor, integrity, and leadership. To see these concepts dumped down a toilet in the name of "nothing my service ever does is ever wrong"... Well, that kind of irks me.

But what really irked me is that someone here saw this latest mud slinging as vindication of their posts on this thread. Vindication? Seriously? It makes it sound like this poster was focusing on the fact that the leadership did nothing, and that perhaps excused this behaviour (and, NO, it doesn't). No, what this poster argued vehemently for was that these actions were excusable, simply a lark to improve crew morale, a "tradition" that endures because it IS tradition, nothing done wrong here. Besides the obvious that this logic is false (doing something wrong for perhaps the right reasons), this new twist to the story doesn't vindicate anything. It only adds another black eye. Few here argued that the investigation wouldn't deepen to include higher leadership. No, the argument was whether these actions were acceptable behavior. To claim "vindication" is simply twisting the facts to make it seem like the original argument is valid. It remains not so.

As to "trying people in the court of public opinion?" Well, just HOW did official court transcripts from an ongoing investigation and hearing GET into the media's hands? Doesn't serve the purpose of the prosecution, doesn't serve the purpose of the Navy. The ONLY one it serves a purpose for is Capt Honors. Old saying that I know of: "if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and smells like a dck, it probably is a duck". I was questioned on whether I thought Capt Honors would lower himself to doing something like releasing his official statements to the media. I'll flat out say it: "Heck yeah he did it!" We've seen what type of individual he was when he refused to tone down his potty humor when asked, I'm sure he has no remorse for this new low tactic tha was played. HE is the one attempting to try this issue in the court of public opinion, and it stinks to high heaven that he is trying to take so much of the navy down with him. Yes there is no evidence that he is a liar and a cheat, but there sure is tons of evidence of his character.

I lived through a unit where the commander was fired, and he tried to take everyone down with him during his trial. Not fun to literally have to say "No comment" to the 60 Minutes cameras. If Capt Honors wants to go that path, well let him. He already gave the Navy a black eye, he might as well add another...

And there is no need to shout on these forums. We all get that above him probably condoned his theatrics. Doesn't excuse the situation for him, it just makes it worse for the Navy. And it HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH "VINDICATION".

 

[Mongo]

So it really wasn't about Honors that brought this back on topic, but his need for vindication.

I feel vindicated because most of what I posted on this thread which was roundly denounced appears to have an element of truth to it. Of course, no one here seems to be interested in the truth. When the OP acts as judge and jury in the title of the thread, I guess any reasonable rebuttal can only be met with french toast recipes.

The "And please spare us your french toast recipes." was not meant in kindness

Of course not. It was rude. Kinda like a little kid humming louder and louder to override what someone is attempting to say.

Some of us have those near and dear to us serving on the Enterprise right now. Those who depend on the morale of teenagers on the flight deck making about $3.00 per hour to keep them out of the water. And how to maintain that morale. Morale that has been seriously curtailed by all the events of the last month. Pardon us if we happen to follow this closely, have opinions, and take what happens seriously.

 

[luckymacy]

so, anyone remember who's in the superbowl?

Here's some old advice everyone here should remember.

If he's a true idiot, he isn't smart enough to follow the convincing argument.
Mark Twain said it best:
"Never argue with an idiot:
1. He brings you down to his level and then beats you on experience.
2. bystanders will be unable to tell the difference."

Peace, out.

 

[Pima]

I feel vindicated because most of what I posted on this thread which was roundly denounced appears to have an element of truth to it.

MOST...not 100%

APPEARS to have an element of truth.

OMG read what you posted...

MOST
APPEARS
ELEMENT


Key words are not on your side.

 

[Mongo]

As to "trying people in the court of public opinion?" Well, just HOW did official court transcripts from an ongoing investigation and hearing GET into the media's hands? Doesn't serve the purpose of the prosecution, doesn't serve the purpose of the Navy. The ONLY one it serves a purpose for is Capt Honors. Old saying that I know of: "if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and smells like a dck, it probably is a duck". I was questioned on whether I thought Capt Honors would lower himself to doing something like releasing his official statements to the media. I'll flat out say it: "Heck yeah he did it!" We've seen what type of individual he was when he refused to tone down his potty humor when asked, I'm sure he has no remorse for this new low tactic tha was played. HE is the one attempting to try this issue in the court of public opinion, and it stinks to high heaven that he is trying to take so much of the navy down with him. Yes there is no evidence that he is a liar and a cheat, but there sure is tons of evidence of his character.

Well, if there was an element of doubt as to the purpose of this thread after reading the title, this certainly settles it. Truth is definitely not the issue. "Tons of evidence of his character"?? Spare me.

 

[bruno]

Good place to end this thread. I vote for closing it.