Any advice for parent of MID going to board

Skipper07 said:
*some D1 athletes can row or bike. All mids, athlete or not, must pass a PRT with the run to graduate. Even linemen.

Context for earlier comments about USNA having higher standards: The fleet 1.5 run time to pass for 20-24 year old males is 13:30. The USNA standard is 10:30.
Click to expand...
Thank you for clarifying. I should have prefaced it with ‘some’.
 
JohnMcLane said:
Why can't people get it through their heads that physical fitness is a non-negotiable requirement for ALL commissioning programs?

How many more posts like this must we endure? WHY don't parents, applicants, and cadets/mids seem to understand?

GWU PNS recently posted a post titled "At the Risk of Sounding Sarcastic..." that addresses individuals who can't follow directions.

The saddest thing is that this is a slow burn....these kids have had months and even years to get themselves into the minimum condition to pass their branch's fitness test.
Click to expand...
Rather harsh. No need to be so gruff with parents who have just joined the site. I know the military can be (is) harsh, but there's no need to take whatever is bugging you out on the parents who are new to the site and are just asking for some heart-felt assistance. Just my opinion, I realize.
 
If you read the Navy PFT instruction, the purpose of the program is to verify Sailors maintain a basic level of "overall wellness" to be suitable for "worldwide deployment".

The PFA is not meant to be a filter for anything, or representative of any kind of functional fitness (imagine riding a bike around a ship). In the fleet, PFAs are Pass/Fail--the score is not recorded in your record at any point. The purpose is to make sure people aren't blatantly unhealthy and identify health, diet, and lifestyle issues before they become a real problem.

The Navy has no equivalent of a CFT. Maybe it should, but it doesn't. Does the Navy value physical fitness as much as the other services? Honestly, probably not.
 
StPaulDad said:
Not sure if it's been answered directly for you or not, but being called in front of a board for whatever reason is being boarded. Nothing nefarious, but then again it's usually not for a good reason so no one looks forward to it.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Makes sense now.
 
CaptMJ always provides excellent advice, I'm certain from having time sitting as a panel member at one of these boards. As CaptMJ explained, this is likely to come down to a risk decision for the MIDN and in the best interest of the Navy.
I would highly recommend that your son think really hard about the root cause of the problem - need to be very honest and frank on why he has failed the last two PRTs (it sounds like it is only the run portion) - is it laziness, not running as much as he could, or something else (we don't need to know)? I am going to assume he passed his plebe year PRTs - why was he able to pass then, but not the last two? What changes were made after the first failed PRT? Are the changes working - is there a trend in the right direction? Is a little more time needed (specifically since you said he failed by just a few seconds on most recent) - if he ran the PRT today, would he pass? Outside of his last official PRT (the one that counts), has he done a mock PRT and what was the outcome (could help establish the trend in the right direction)? If one hasn't been done, can the company do one for him (not sure if this is allowed), informally, prior to the board?

Bottom line - when your son goes to the board, he needs to be clear on WHAT the exact problem (root cause) is and HOW he will fix it (the game plan) so this will be the last time this is an issue. This is the best chance he might have at getting a reprieve. Brutal honesty and being introspective will be far more appreciated (regardless of the decision) than trying to shirk responsibility. What does his chain of command think - from squad leader to Company Officer? Other performance and academics, I'm certain will be taken into consideration - but if he is doing average/well in those areas (i.e. they are not negative factors), the focus will solely be on the PRT. I'm not certain how much character statements, etc. will have on the board - because if there isn't really a clear path forward on passing the PRT - you can be the hardest trying individual, personable, inclusive, etc. (all the good traits of being a leader) but the fact is that USNA graduation might not be in the deck of cards. Not saying to forego character statements, but their weight might be insignificant to the actual issue.

At the end of the day, if your son is truthful on identifying what the issue is and how to go after it - there isn't much more than can be done or asked - what has happened can't be changed, you only can look at how you can impact the future moving forward!

As CaptMJ also mentioned, it may not be the answer you want to hear, but we are trying to be candid.
 
Thank you @usnabgo08.
The short answer is that he failed the run portion. His and my best guess is losing that last 5-7 lbs will do the trick for him with his current effort. He is way above avg in grades, and all other areas, except for running portion.

He has had some wt issues going in his plebe year too. But plebe summer helped him with that he was well within wt guidelines. His 3c year is where he put in some extra lbs but could not shave off and that affected his running. He was short 25 seconds in fall and was short 5 seconds this spring. He improved , but not just enough.
 
vmtony said:
Thank you @usnabgo08.
The short answer is that he failed the run portion. His and my best guess is losing that last 5-7 lbs will do the trick for him with his current effort. He is way above avg in grades, and all other areas, except for running portion.

He has had some wt issues going in his plebe year too. But plebe summer helped him with that he was well within wt guidelines. His 3c year is where he put in some extra lbs but could not shave off and that affected his running. He was short 25 seconds in fall and was short 5 seconds this spring. He improved , but not just enough.
Click to expand...
Someone above mentioned this——-does he have a pace setter for him and his needed time when he runs? Someone not only to set the pace but to offer encouragement.

If they do, and if they have been working really hard to pass and they still can’t

I’d be real concerned about seeing them given a waver this year only to fail out the following years with the potential of being on the hook for several years of $$$ payback.
 
vmtony said:
Thank you @usnabgo08.
The short answer is that he failed the run portion. His and my best guess is losing that last 5-7 lbs will do the trick for him with his current effort. He is way above avg in grades, and all other areas, except for running portion.

He has had some wt issues going in his plebe year too. But plebe summer helped him with that he was well within wt guidelines. His 3c year is where he put in some extra lbs but could not shave off and that affected his running. He was short 25 seconds in fall and was short 5 seconds this spring. He improved , but not just enough.
Click to expand...
Just want to send a note that I am thinking about you and sending support. I know this isn’t easy to watch from afar. Hopefully your DS is retained and he figures out his workout routine and weight management. This isn’t easy by any means. If your DS is retained and does his 2 for 7, he knows what is on the line. Good luck.
 
vmtony said:
Thank you @usnabgo08.
The short answer is that he failed the run portion. His and my best guess is losing that last 5-7 lbs will do the trick for him with his current effort. He is way above avg in grades, and all other areas, except for running portion.

He has had some wt issues going in his plebe year too. But plebe summer helped him with that he was well within wt guidelines. His 3c year is where he put in some extra lbs but could not shave off and that affected his running. He was short 25 seconds in fall and was short 5 seconds this spring. He improved , but not just enough.
Click to expand...
I have a family member who struggled with a similar run standard requirement. We eventually found that one "cause" was stress-related eating, causing them to not lose weight and therefore struggle with any progression on the run training. It was well hidden.

Plebe Summer, with its tight control over snacks, PT, etc., makes sense your DS was able to pass then but not when "on his own". He has to find a way to instill that self-discipline, and to ask for help.

DS had a company mate in exact situation 3C year. He was offered one final PRT attempt over summer, but failed run yet again and separated before 2/7. It was heartbreaking for all, as he, too was doing great everywhere else but the run. He enrolled at the local State U and still maintains close bonds with DS and other pals.


Good Luck.
 
Skipper07 said:
*some D1 athletes can row or bike. All mids, athlete or not, must pass a PRT with the run to graduate. Even linemen.

Context for earlier comments about USNA having higher standards: The fleet 1.5 run time to pass for 20-24 year old males is 13:30. The USNA standard is 10:30.
Click to expand...
Normally what happens to the football player or other sports type who was injured during senior year, playing a USNA sponsored sport, went thru or going thru rehab, and is not ready to pass or take the PRT before graduation?

This must be an every year issue come graduation time.
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
Normally what happens to the football player or other sports type who was injured during senior year, playing a USNA sponsored sport, went thru or going thru rehab, and is not ready to pass or take the PRT before graduation?

This must be an every year issue come graduation time.
Click to expand...
Most football players still take the PRT and must pass before they start fall practice or they don’t play. A few have got caught up and missed practice. The lineman are really the exception. They lose a lot of weight fast. It is monitored and they have nutritional and workout support. Some of these guys are going from 285 to 240 and even lower in weeks/months. Many will even go USMC and have to be ready for a PFT. USNA doesn’t leave them alone. As far as being injured, I think it would depend on if they ever passed a PRT and/or had issues. We had a lineman, my next door neighbor as a Mid, who passed the day before graduation. I would say if someone was injured and couldn’t (and never taken a regular PRT) they would be delayed grad.
 
Hopefully, this is also a wake up call. A realization that this part of life (physical fitness) is important, and not something that can be put off and ‘crammed for’, like a paper for class or test.

Health/physical fitness is so important. And needs a tiny slice of every day. Not something low on the priority list.

I’m sure it’s a bit of a shock to some students, who enter adulthood and loose youthful natural physical fitness (for many kids). Freshman 15 is a real thing 😆!!

I feel for mom and dad. It is hard to watch our kids struggle. But is SO IMPORTANT that they do. So the learn how strong they actually are. But TRUST that he has all the tools, to handle this. Including tons of support.
 
Just spitballing here. The board has to be convinced he can pass, and pass consistently. If he came up with a plan to be tested 3 times over the summer, even if he gave up leave plans or had to do crazy things to make it happen, and passed each and every time before Reform and the two-for-seven hammer falls, that would be a trend the board could respect. He would have to be all in, focus on the absolute basics of his life: proper nutrition, sleep hygiene, PT workouts, summer training. Nothing else that’s fun or goofing off or derails what should be a pre-Olympics laser focus on getting his running up to speed and his body weight down. Everybody else is going to the beach, he’s going for a run, etc. Either he wants to stay at USNA and turns himself inside out to do it, or…

We had a 3/C sponsor son who struggled with required swim tests, and was facing separation because of that. He enlisted the help of a SEAL lieutenant on the Yard to help him overcome his water issues, refine technique and gain confidence. He asked if he could give up his summer leave block and stay in Bancroft for those 3 weeks. He did 3-a-day pool sessions with the SEAL to work on various things. Weekends too for self-led workouts in the pool. The last week, he took and passed every required swim test for USNA. I tease him now because he has a pool at his house in CA, and he says he’s still not fond of the deep end, but he knows he has the skills to help his little ones if they get into trouble.
 
Last edited:
vmtony said:
Thank you.
He is taking advantage of all opportunities ( morning BTT, sports doc consultation , character coach). On character front, helps out lot of MIDS struggling in academics as MGSP, has excellent support and rapport with academic advisor.

Now since it is 1 week before board, what can he do to come out successful. Any stories of MIDS who have come out of it successfully? What have they done going into these boards.
Click to expand...
First empathy for the situation and best of luck to your son and your family. But I see a feedback opportunity in your post that may help as you choose what to prioritize to dig out of this - so I'll take the time to share it before I dive into back to back meetings for the next few hours.

One of my direct-report employees is an outstanding member of our society - helps the world, helps people - spends hours a week using something called "freecycle" and has a garage full of furniture, dishes, clothing that she goes and gets and finds a way to get it to people who need it. Volunteers- I'm proud of their impact. I'm certain they'll be in heaven one day. But this employee struggles with attention to fine detail at work - I can review their updates and find errors far too often. I will just offer the same advice I provide in mentorship 1:1s as it may help also here.

When you're struggling, you really need to shore up your own gap as a priority over helping others. In this case, he needs to secure and protect his position to continue to be present at the academy first by meeting standards, in order to continue to be in a position to help others. It's good to help others and be a great mentor, but if he can take away anything it's that he where he has gaps needs to help himself as a priority/ first. His goal is not to help others become a military leader at the cost of his own dream. Once your gap is shored up, then resume helping through the Midshipmen Group Study Program. Yes, that impact and positive letters from that group may help him too - but just remember why he's heading into a review board - it's the gap - and that's my point. the good news is that for many midshipmen including my own son (NROTC), they reach a point where fitness evals are zero stress and they are healthy and it's easier to maintain that standard once you reach it - it's a chance to lead by example and get great feedback. the other good news is that your son has already shown improvement and hopefully will get the opportunity to continue and ideally show he can now meet the standard before this board.

Good luck - I hope this is received constructively and may help.
 
vmtony said:
Now since it is 1 week before board, what can he do to come out successful. Any stories of MIDS who have come out of it successfully? What have they done going into these boards.
Click to expand...
I am not sure if this is possible with USNA, but he could perhaps schedule a PRT observed by his Company chain of command. If he passes, he could go in front of the board and explain that he understands his requirements now. That would speak well to his determination to get things moving in the right direction.
 
The fleet PRT and the USNA PRT are different animals so the challenge your mid will have is just getting through the last two years provided he makes it through the board.

I am writing as someone that failed the PRT twice my Plebe year and never made it to a board. I did well on the PRT at the end of Plebe Summer mostly because we were working out everyday and had limited access to food. The academic year came and I quickly found myself underwater and socially very much alone. I quickly found out that my favorite thing on the planet were pints of Ben and Jerry's.

Everyone has varying levels of physical talents and attributes. I was short with corresponding short legs and built more like a brick sh*thouse than anything. My body was not built to run fast. My roommates NEVER and I truly mean never "worked out" and passed easily.

So the fall PRT came and I failed sit-ups by 2 reps. My upperclass at the time noticed that my TECHNIQUE was bad - he coached me for 1 week and I did very well on the retake the next week. Fast forward 6 months - Spring PRT - I had never practiced on an indoor track. I was convinced during my final lap that I had failed and quit running for like 2-3 seconds...only to start running again and discovered that I did fail..by 2 seconds.

At the time we had a "3 strikes" policy and having failed 2 consecutive PRTs, I went into my 3c year knowing for that the next 3 years I was out of chances. This was probably one of the highest levels of stress I have ever encountered and it changed the way I approached exercise.

So...there is a lot to unpack here.

#1 - My first realization was that in order to overcome my physical attributes, I was required to be more active than my peers. They played video games and ate pizza I had to find more time to exercise and eat more salads. This felt like a huge injustice to me but they were all tall, skinny, younger and had longer legs. It seemed like they could walk the PRT and still pass...but I had to TRAIN.

#2 - Training. It wasn't just as simple as I had thought. Go out and run more! I was very time limited due to my major - my afternoons were mostly spent in the lab. I needed to maximize my training time - and though I was probably not his favorite Mid - my company officer was none other than Stew Smith. He is the person that taught me HOW to train to pass the PRT...it was more than just going out and running but the recipe was pretty simple. Stew's fitness videos and books are often recommended for those working on the CFA or for spec ops candidates. By the way - he lives in Annapolis and likely could be hired to consult your mid's training but that is likely overkill.

Here was Stew's recipe for PRT training.
2-3 times per week - the 1.5M unbroken run workout:
Pacing:
1/4 Mile All Out (Run as hard as you can...like sprinting!)
1/4 Mile Run (Just "slow" enough to be able to recover your breath to prepare to sprint again)
1/4 Mile All Out
1/4 Mile Run
1/8 Mile All Out
1/8 Mile Run
1/8 Mile All Out
1/8 Mile Run

What does "all out" pace feel like - somewhere close to throwing up.

This workout is an unbroken 1.5M run that will likely be slower overall than "passing" PRT score but it will force them to work out in the really uncomfortable place where the mental side of fitness lives. Yes...there is a huge mental aspect to an all out test so the more times you put yourself under the mental pressure of feeling "all out" the easier it is to deal with on test day.

He added:
1 day per week of a "long run" at a sustainable pace. You mid will know what running an "inner" or "outer" means. The problem most mid that struggle with running is this is the only type of workout they will do and its long and slow. What does training in that environment make? A long slow runner.

Last thing I could add was my running FORM was bad. I was a really awful heel strike runner that with short legs tried to take long strides. I learned MUCH later that running speed and efficiency came from a high cadence. Quick short choppy strides that landed on the toes vice heel... Learning to be a toe strike runner took time.

So - to the OP - there is nothing you can really do other than ask questions and listen. The PRT for some is a non-issue. The PRT for others is a HUGE challenge. For those that have it easier - they often don't understand the plight of the other. Failing the PRT at USNA does not make you a "bad person" but if he wants to be there he will have to overcome this particular challenge that is HIGHLY individual in nature.

Good luck - I don't envy your mid's position right now having lived it myself. He CAN get through this though and it WILL change his life if he actually can learn the lesson.
 
NeverSayNever said:
The fleet PRT and the USNA PRT are different animals so the challenge your mid will have is just getting through the last two years provided he makes it through the board.

I am writing as someone that failed the PRT twice my Plebe year and never made it to a board. I did well on the PRT at the end of Plebe Summer mostly because we were working out everyday and had limited access to food. The academic year came and I quickly found myself underwater and socially very much alone. I quickly found out that my favorite thing on the planet were pints of Ben and Jerry's.

Everyone has varying levels of physical talents and attributes. I was short with corresponding short legs and built more like a brick sh*thouse than anything. My body was not built to run fast. My roommates NEVER and I truly mean never "worked out" and passed easily.

So the fall PRT came and I failed sit-ups by 2 reps. My upperclass at the time noticed that my TECHNIQUE was bad - he coached me for 1 week and I did very well on the retake the next week. Fast forward 6 months - Spring PRT - I had never practiced on an indoor track. I was convinced during my final lap that I had failed and quit running for like 2-3 seconds...only to start running again and discovered that I did fail..by 2 seconds.

At the time we had a "3 strikes" policy and having failed 2 consecutive PRTs, I went into my 3c year knowing for that the next 3 years I was out of chances. This was probably one of the highest levels of stress I have ever encountered and it changed the way I approached exercise.

So...there is a lot to unpack here.

#1 - My first realization was that in order to overcome my physical attributes, I was required to be more active than my peers. They played video games and ate pizza I had to find more time to exercise and eat more salads. This felt like a huge injustice to me but they were all tall, skinny, younger and had longer legs. It seemed like they could walk the PRT and still pass...but I had to TRAIN.

#2 - Training. It wasn't just as simple as I had thought. Go out and run more! I was very time limited due to my major - my afternoons were mostly spent in the lab. I needed to maximize my training time - and though I was probably not his favorite Mid - my company officer was none other than Stew Smith. He is the person that taught me HOW to train to pass the PRT...it was more than just going out and running but the recipe was pretty simple. Stew's fitness videos and books are often recommended for those working on the CFA or for spec ops candidates. By the way - he lives in Annapolis and likely could be hired to consult your mid's training but that is likely overkill.

Here was Stew's recipe for PRT training.
2-3 times per week - the 1.5M unbroken run workout:
Pacing:
1/4 Mile All Out (Run as hard as you can...like sprinting!)
1/4 Mile Run (Just "slow" enough to be able to recover your breath to prepare to sprint again)
1/4 Mile All Out
1/4 Mile Run
1/8 Mile All Out
1/8 Mile Run
1/8 Mile All Out
1/8 Mile Run

What does "all out" pace feel like - somewhere close to throwing up.

This workout is an unbroken 1.5M run that will likely be slower overall than "passing" PRT score but it will force them to work out in the really uncomfortable place where the mental side of fitness lives. Yes...there is a huge mental aspect to an all out test so the more times you put yourself under the mental pressure of feeling "all out" the easier it is to deal with on test day.

He added:
1 day per week of a "long run" at a sustainable pace. You mid will know what running an "inner" or "outer" means. The problem most mid that struggle with running is this is the only type of workout they will do and its long and slow. What does training in that environment make? A long slow runner.

Last thing I could add was my running FORM was bad. I was a really awful heel strike runner that with short legs tried to take long strides. I learned MUCH later that running speed and efficiency came from a high cadence. Quick short choppy strides that landed on the toes vice heel... Learning to be a toe strike runner took time.

So - to the OP - there is nothing you can really do other than ask questions and listen. The PRT for some is a non-issue. The PRT for others is a HUGE challenge. For those that have it easier - they often don't understand the plight of the other. Failing the PRT at USNA does not make you a "bad person" but if he wants to be there he will have to overcome this particular challenge that is HIGHLY individual in nature.

Good luck - I don't envy your mid's position right now having lived it myself. He CAN get through this though and it WILL change his life if he actually can learn the lesson.
Click to expand...
This forum is so awesome. So many people who are helpful yet empathetic.
 
Stealth_81 said:
You don’t need to endure any more. You’re free to leave.

Stealth_81
Click to expand...
My post was perceived as an attack on the OP. It was not. I was venting my frustration into the night sky about a systemic problem but with hindsight I realize how it came across and that it would have been more appropriate in a different thread. My apologies to the OP and to the others who took offense.

It breaks my heart that there is yet one more kid whose dreams are in jeopardy due to fitness. Sadly, save for injuries and a few exceptions, it's almost always avoidable. This trend is most recently evidenced in the post-mortems of many non-selects for various programs. It’s like hearing about someone who was injured in a car wreck because they weren’t wearing their seatbelt. Hard lessons that we wish could be learned from other people's experiences but instead too often end up learned in the first-person and become just the latest example of the same worn-out cautionary tale.

My desire to want to stop the trend of kids walking off an easily avoided cliff was mistaken for a lack of compassion. I’ll concede my post was a moment of bad judgement/communication but I'm hardly the monster that needs to be chased out of the village by the townspeople.
 
Keep in mind that all (most) of these kids come in very high achieving. And that ALL eventually hit a wall. Whatever that wall is: physical fitness, academics, social fit, military obligations, company demands, team obligations, meetings, labs, tasks, required EC’s, parades, parade practices, football games…..etc etc etc.

Finding the balance, is part of the training. I can see how putting physical fitness on the back burner, as an easy out when dealing with competing demands, might be a logical choice.

Lessons learned. In all things. That’s how we grow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top