Are our priorities straight?

I would not have wanted to be an IC athlete at the Zoo. Their practices are a bear and then they get to do all the fun military and academic stuff as well. I remember one of my classmates coming back from gymnastics practice with literally no skin on his hands. Wrestlers coming back with broken noses. And the football team, it's a program and the players are expected to perform. And again, they still have to do all the military and academic stuff. In my freshman squadron we had two football players. They both were starting by our junior year. They were both on the Superintendent's List. They both were DG's from pilot training and one just retired as an Ops Group CC. While I was there two football players were Rhodes Scholars. Numerous general's played football at the academy. USAFA and the Air Force get their money's worth from IC athletes.


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WBY - Please correct me if I am mistaken, is that a Navy F-14? AF weak, Army weak, Navy strong!

Sorry, I should have used THIS GUY instead of an F-14:
:spacecraft:
10/3 was an off day for us and you know it. :D 2014 was much more like it--it's not really Navy's fault they can't breathe the thin air up here. Besides, our stadium is WAY better. :shake:
 
Yep... it's that time of the year for IC bashing (or "do we really need these sports and cadets here at the academy" or "how come the super genius didn't get in and the 25 SAT kid get in") again.

I can only speak about the IC life in my kid's team and what I know about it. The team practices Monday- Friday from 2ish-6pm from August to March/April the following year. After practice they change (no time for shower) and hurry over to Mitch's for dinner (and everyone knows that the farthest point from Mitch's is the athletic complex), so 50-60 percent of the time, they miss dinner and either have to go out of the academy, order in or beg someone to get food for them. The Non-IC roommate did intramurals for 60 minutes, has been fed and showered and has already been studying for 2+ hours. Kid eats while checking email and starts studying/doing homework around 730-8pm only after catching up with squad responsibilities (they still have them). They have to do all the homework and projects assigned to with ZERO slack from the teachers. Now it's 11pm and they realize that they still have to take a shower and its lights out (or so they say). Tomorrow they do the same thing over again.

Team's sport plays in NCAA season and out of NCAA season so once a month (at least) most of them will miss a Friday and a Monday school day if games are on the weekends (which most are.) Again NARP roommate has zero missed school days, 2-3 extra days of EI if needed, weekends free if Blue weekends and rested (if they choose to be) for Monday. My kid gets stuck in a hotel room in some strange town doing homework and projects on the road and occasionally taking an exam given by proctor/academic liason/coach, plays most of Saturday and/or Sunday. Tired and exhausted from the weekend, travel time and jet lag, kid gets back to USAFA, attends a class a day later and has to make-up all the projects and labs missed during time away. Some kids do not get to go home on holidays and breaks because of sports/training/practice commitments, NARPs get to ski at Breck or vacation in Paris.

The athletes get hurt - ankle and wrist sprains are very common. Now this kid has a boot, on crutches or a sling but is not excused from team practice time so has to walk in from Sijan to athletic complex in crutches and a boot even in snow or rain. Very infrequently some kind soul gives a ride. Kid needs PT and now has to endure pain and discomfort to alleviate the original injury. NARP roommate is in COS eating at buffalo wild wings or shopping at Target. Yet in spite of this "extra" work, this small team has sent multiple cadets to the NCAA finals every year and produced 3 NCAA All-Americans in the last 3 years. Many cadets are on/have been on the deans, athletics and military lists every semester and they have gotten 7 or 8 pilot slots in the last 3-4 years. So far NOBODY has been kicked out for academics/honor/physical issues in the last 4 years that I have known. The cadets even manage to be in leadership positions in their squads on top of their athletic commitments.

My kid is not the uber brainiac, was not the HS class valedictorian, had average SAT/ACTs, didn't have tons of community service, scouts or have a job because of sports conflicts nor was an intel/westinghouse participant. For some reason, real or imagined, USAFA admissions decided on an appointment and my kid got in. I always thank God for that. There were struggles and lots of EIs early on but is now doing a 180 degrees on academics and hopefully will make the deans list for the first time LOL. On the hand, we knew a few 4.0, super smart, super everything kids from the class who are no longer with them for one reason or the other.

Again I can only speak on my experience as an IC parent. I'm sure there are many out there that would say the same thing. Athletics at the SA's are not easy. It is an extra load on the cadets but most do it for the love of the sport they have known (many since they were super young.) Football always gets singled out as the sport that allows subpar cadets into the academy but it also drags the other sports and their athletes with them. As the often quoted "you can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes" says, unless you are an athlete or IC parent, you really can't and shouldn't make generalizations or make assumptions about whether or not they deserve to be there over somebody else. Lets not forget that many of these athletes and their families have sacrificed time, effort, their hard earned money, family time, vacations, social life, etc to get where they are and to get looked at by college coaches. It doesn't matter what our opinions are because in the end, USAFA admissions said they could be there - end of story.

Sorry for the rant but this topic always gets resurrected too many times to drive an agenda and this is my $0.02 commentary on that.

BTW last years #1 cadet and Rhodes scholar was an IC. She was (obviously) female, an astro major, flight commander and obviously super smart.
 
Another 2 cents. The academy is pretty diligent about making sure the recruited athlete can make it through the academy. Especially academically. Of the 50-60 recruited football players coming into BCT, a handful will realize that they aren't going to be able to handle both sport and academy academics. Fortunately, they can give up sports and still stay as a traditional cadet.

Another 5-10 won't make it through the rest of summer practice before the season even starts. They too become traditional cadets. Unlike a true recruited athlete at a civilian college, the academy doesn't guarantee you'll STAY on the team. Recruited means you don't have to try out, but it doesn't guarantee you'll get to stay on the team. Btw, football does have tryouts for people who want to try out and weren't recruited.

Then, by the time the freshman regular season is over, another 5 or so will be let go from the rostr. Now, the 50-60, is down to 30-40. By the end of spring practice, another 10-20 will be dropped. Remember, NCAA rules only allow so many on the roster. Now, before sophomore year starts, the remaining freshmen will be down to about 20-30. In the end, they will be around 15-20 seniors on the team. Fwiw, I don't think there's one senior on the starting defense of th football team.

Then, as mugs mentioned, these ic's had all the regular classes and military study to do also. Those no longer on the team are still cadets. If they were sub par, they wouldn't be appointed. And believe it or not, the overwhelming majority of these athlete, all sports, didn't accept the academy to play sports. The wanted the academy. They want to serve. Because of military commitment, it's not like the academy athletes art eying to make it to the nfl, mlb, nba, nhl, etc. if they really wanted that, they would have gone to a different school. Rarely there may me one football player every few years that get a chance at the nfl, after at least 2 ears commitment and a further commitment in the reserves, but that is really rare. I know of 2 in the last 7 years.
 
As far as the many recruited athletes we know, have met and talked to at the academy goes, most of them had individually given up recruitments from at least 1 ivy league school, 1-3 from a top 10-15 national university and countless mid-level schools and chose to go to USAFA. They gave up full scholarships, cushy, athletes only dorm units (for Sijan lol), underwater basket weaving majors and tons of adoring fans to be at the academy. Why? Because they wanted to be military officers, not pro athletes. They wanted to serve their country and not themselves. They wanted to make a difference and not make the buck.

So why pick on this group? What makes them different from the Intel finalist, 4.0 uber brainiac, female, gay, minority, inner city, single parent cadet? Once at the academy - NOTHING! They are all cadets. Cadets with the same academic, military and athletic requirements and expectations.

So instead of constantly questioning the validity of these athletes being at USAFA, cheer loudly for them, come to their games, talk to and get to know these fine men and women, support the teams when they are in your neck of the woods, because in four short years they will be in harm's way. Be proud of your academy athletes!
 
Yep... it's that time of the year for IC bashing (or "do we really need these sports and cadets here at the academy" or "how come the super genius didn't get in and the 25 SAT kid get in") again.

I can only speak about the IC life in my kid's team and what I know about it. The team practices Monday- Friday from 2ish-6pm from August to March/April the following year. After practice they change (no time for shower) and hurry over to Mitch's for dinner (and everyone knows that the farthest point from Mitch's is the athletic complex), so 50-60 percent of the time, they miss dinner and either have to go out of the academy, order in or beg someone to get food for them. The Non-IC roommate did intramurals for 60 minutes, has been fed and showered and has already been studying for 2+ hours. Kid eats while checking email and starts studying/doing homework around 730-8pm only after catching up with squad responsibilities (they still have them). They have to do all the homework and projects assigned to with ZERO slack from the teachers. Now it's 11pm and they realize that they still have to take a shower and its lights out (or so they say). Tomorrow they do the same thing over again.

Team's sport plays in NCAA season and out of NCAA season so once a month (at least) most of them will miss a Friday and a Monday school day if games are on the weekends (which most are.) Again NARP roommate has zero missed school days, 2-3 extra days of EI if needed, weekends free if Blue weekends and rested (if they choose to be) for Monday. My kid gets stuck in a hotel room in some strange town doing homework and projects on the road and occasionally taking an exam given by proctor/academic liason/coach, plays most of Saturday and/or Sunday. Tired and exhausted from the weekend, travel time and jet lag, kid gets back to USAFA, attends a class a day later and has to make-up all the projects and labs missed during time away. Some kids do not get to go home on holidays and breaks because of sports/training/practice commitments, NARPs get to ski at Breck or vacation in Paris.

The athletes get hurt - ankle and wrist sprains are very common. Now this kid has a boot, on crutches or a sling but is not excused from team practice time so has to walk in from Sijan to athletic complex in crutches and a boot even in snow or rain. Very infrequently some kind soul gives a ride. Kid needs PT and now has to endure pain and discomfort to alleviate the original injury. NARP roommate is in COS eating at buffalo wild wings or shopping at Target. Yet in spite of this "extra" work, this small team has sent multiple cadets to the NCAA finals every year and produced 3 NCAA All-Americans in the last 3 years. Many cadets are on/have been on the deans, athletics and military lists every semester and they have gotten 7 or 8 pilot slots in the last 3-4 years. So far NOBODY has been kicked out for academics/honor/physical issues in the last 4 years that I have known. The cadets even manage to be in leadership positions in their squads on top of their athletic commitments.

My kid is not the uber brainiac, was not the HS class valedictorian, had average SAT/ACTs, didn't have tons of community service, scouts or have a job because of sports conflicts nor was an intel/westinghouse participant. For some reason, real or imagined, USAFA admissions decided on an appointment and my kid got in. I always thank God for that. There were struggles and lots of EIs early on but is now doing a 180 degrees on academics and hopefully will make the deans list for the first time LOL. On the hand, we knew a few 4.0, super smart, super everything kids from the class who are no longer with them for one reason or the other.

Again I can only speak on my experience as an IC parent. I'm sure there are many out there that would say the same thing. Athletics at the SA's are not easy. It is an extra load on the cadets but most do it for the love of the sport they have known (many since they were super young.) Football always gets singled out as the sport that allows sub
Wpar cadets into the academy but it also drags the other sports and their athletes with them. As the often quoted "you can't really understand another person's experience until you've walked a mile in their shoes" says, unless you are an athlete or IC parent, you really can't and shouldn't make generalizations or make assumptions about whether or not they deserve to be there over somebody else. Lets not forget that many of these athletes and their families have sacrificed time, effort, their hard earned money, family time, vacations, social life, etc to get where they are and to get looked at by college coaches. It doesn't matter what our opinions are because in the end, USAFA admissions said they could be there - end of story.

Sorry for the rant but this topic always gets resurrected too many times to drive an agenda and this is my $0.02 commentary on that.

BTW last years #1 cadet and Rhodes scholar was an IC. She was (obviously) female, an astro major, flight commander and obviously super smart.

My only issue with your post is that you assume that it is somehow harder for IC's. My DS missed 5 days of class in a row recently and he isn't a D1 athlete. He pulls a few all nighters a month to catch-up. His days are also booked from 5AM till 9PM. I won't write why he is busy. But when you are extremely busy, you factually get out of some military duties including my DS. And yes, instructors absolutely cut you slack when you are behind. I'm not saying everyone but when it is legitimate, they work with you.

Also, there ARE sport that statistically have higher IQ's and end up causing less trouble. Don't shoot the messenger. Other correlations exist like females don't cause as many problems either. Try debating that one. :) These are not absolutes but rather correlations. So while there are some less than ideal football players (as Cadets), there are OBVIOUSLY many superb selections too. So it is also fair to assume there are some incredibly busy NARP's (and some that are coasting).

So you know, a Rhodes criteria is athleticism. Interesting enough, last years Rhodes winner was in a sport that correlates to smart people. That doesn't mean that you don't have genius football players at USAFA. Of course there are! To be clear, I am not complaining about D1 "fairness" but rather clearing the air that your DS or DD doesn't have it harder than many NARP's. I read your paragraphs as suggesting D1's have it tough and NARP's can coast in comparison. Not even close... If you take advantage of all of the World Class opportunities, you won't have time to sleep. Because you can easily fill in your schedule up to the brim. Some Cadets do, some don't. Some (mistakenly) think "2.0 good to go" while others think "I refuse to squander this opportunity" and go all out. Yet all are Cadets.

Again, I am not complaining about D1 football players. That wasn't my point. :)
 
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As far as the many recruited athletes we know, have met and talked to at the academy goes, most of them had individually given up recruitments from at least 1 ivy league school, 1-3 from a top 10-15 national university and countless mid-level schools and chose to go to USAFA. They gave up full scholarships, cushy, athletes only dorm units (for Sijan lol), underwater basket weaving majors and tons of adoring fans to be at the academy. Why? Because they wanted to be military officers, not pro athletes. They wanted to serve their country and not themselves. They wanted to make a difference and not make the buck.

So why pick on this group? What makes them different from the Intel finalist, 4.0 uber brainiac, female, gay, minority, inner city, single parent cadet? Once at the academy - NOTHING! They are all cadets. Cadets with the same academic, military and athletic requirements and expectations.

So instead of constantly questioning the validity of these athletes being at USAFA, cheer loudly for them, come to their games, talk to and get to know these fine men and women, support the teams when they are in your neck of the woods, because in four short years they will be in harm's way. Be proud of your academy athletes!

No one said anything about not supporting or cheering them on. In fact, I root hard for USAFA, Navy, and Army in all sports, but especially football.

But, if you think the true blue chip athletes follow the same admission guidelines, and live the same academy likestyle, then we will disagree.

I have enough experience and background to know that yes, 70% of the FB teams are made up of walk on that gained admission through their acivements as a high school scholar athlete. They are the ones you like to point out on the dean's list, Rhodes Scholars, etc. (With a few exceptions)

Many of the players I speak of would never have gained admission if not for the possibility of attending NAPS or the Prep schools. I am quite sure that CC and Skimuggs would disagree.

Some posters talk about "dragging" this subject up as though they are sick of hearing about it. Can we not at least discuss it?

None of you love sports more than me. None of you enjoy a win more than me. I simply do not believe that more qualified applicants should be turned away to make room for blue chip athletes. Of course to head you off at your passionate pass, I realize that there are some football recruits smarter than I will ever be, and they deserve their position.

There are many passionate applicants too, that excelled in the classroom and on the sports field that get turned away. They won't even qualify for spots in the prep school because they're too qualified in academics.

To me, turning away a kid that is qualified to make room for a kid that was not qualified for regular admission makes no sense. The academies exist to produce quality officers, not quality footballers or basketball players.

Someone posted above that blue chip athletes grades suffer because they put so much time into sports. Really? Isn't that the big challenge? Excel on the field or in the classroom... I always taught my kids that academics come first.

Perhaps NAPS and the Prep schools are more than holding tanks where athletes are prepared to function at a level where they can succeed at academies. I hope so.

Athletes with sub 1000 SAT scores have been admitted while regular admission kids with 1400 plus scores and excellent extracurriculars have been passed over in recent years.

I know the arguments about diversity, and producing an officer corps that resembles the make up of the people in the branch in which they will serve. I do not disagree, I just wonder if it is a veiled disguise sometimes to create a faster, stronger team?

That's all from me. I love them all, and I don't begrudge. It's food for thought, and everyone has an opinion.

GO USAFA, GO NAVY, GO ARMY, and GO COAST GUARD! and USMMA too!
 
As far as the many recruited athletes we know, have met and talked to at the academy goes, most of them had individually given up recruitments from at least 1 ivy league school, 1-3 from a top 10-15 national university and countless mid-level schools and chose to go to USAFA. They gave up full scholarships, cushy, athletes only dorm units (for Sijan lol), underwater basket weaving majors and tons of adoring fans to be at the academy. Why? Because they wanted to be military officers, not pro athletes. They wanted to serve their country and not themselves. They wanted to make a difference and not make the buck.

So why pick on this group? What makes them different from the Intel finalist, 4.0 uber brainiac, female, gay, minority, inner city, single parent cadet? Once at the academy - NOTHING! They are all cadets. Cadets with the same academic, military and athletic requirements and expectations.

So instead of constantly questioning the validity of these athletes being at USAFA, cheer loudly for them, come to their games, talk to and get to know these fine men and women, support the teams when they are in your neck of the woods, because in four short years they will be in harm's way. Be proud of your academy athletes!

So we are balanced, realize that unless you are in financial hardship, NO Ivy's is paying tuition for a D1 athlete. Most state schools are not footing the bill for Fencing, gymnastics, wrestling etc unless there is financial hardship. So without question, zero tuition and R&B comes into play why kids chose USAFA. Absolutely positively it did for my NARP. Stanford at $55K a year (then medical school at another $300K) OR a military doctor. Hummmmm....... Who do you think emailed him a USMA link in October of his senior year (later a USAFA link)? Yep, me! So becoming a military officers isn't always the 1st thing in their head. It's turned out to be a fantastic decision but don't try selling D1 recruitment as most students wanted to be military officers 1st. Some yes, most no.

We are all armed with knowing what we know and generate our opinion because of it. More often than not, opinions are not close to the whole truth and probably including mine. But allow me to share my anecdotal 1/132th of evidence. I come from the land of hockey. I have talked with three sets of parents who considered going to USAFA (and one who accepted). In every conversation, I was voluntarily told that coach dumbed down the military exercises (saying how they can get out of it etc). So it wasn't like these players came to USAFA but rather USAFA hockey was selling the students. You don't need to be a USAFA expert to realize that the kids who dream of going to USAFA as a kid MIGHT not drop out as quickly, might not be "2.0 good to go" student etc. To assume a hockey player would turn down the UofMN to play at USAFA is a stretch. No offence to USAFA hockey but UofMN is a much better program and certainly many of the USAFA students could not play for MN. D1 options at the Ivy's come because the students are good BUT also smart. But you get to pay $200K to go to that Ivy too! So sure, they could play for a tier 2 D1 football team at Harvard. But get ready to pay dearly in tuition unless they get financial help. Because there is no such thing as a "free ride" at an Ivy. It doesn't exist.

In the end, no one is saying that these recruited hockey Cadets won't be wonderful military officers. Obviously they bring a different and valuable perspective. BUT, USAFA could pass on a messily 1st line HS varsity player which might be a better Cadet (higher rack-and-stack USAFA admission score) over a guy who deep down wants to play hockey as long as he can. So of course some MN recruited hockey players take spots from other potential "better" Cadets. Life will never be fair and I am not exactly worried if it isn't.

A story: There are politics in youth sports (coaches kids and friends rounded up etc). Sometimes it was obvious. My advice to my kids were get better than the coaches kid or friends so that you are not on the bubble. To the bitter parents who think recruited athletes stole their kids precious spot. The problem is they were bubble students. Tell them they had to get off the bubble and make it damn obvious you deserve to be there. That means actually doing your very best with intensity.
 
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A story: There are politics in youth sports (coaches kids and friends rounded up etc). Sometimes it was obvious. My advice to my kids were get better than the coaches kid or friends so that you are not on the bubble. To the bitter parents who think recruited athletes stole their kids precious spot. The problem is they were bubble students. Tell them they had to get off the bubble and make it damn obvious you deserve to be there. That means actually doing your very best with intensity.

+100, you have said what a lot of people have been afraid to say. I said the same thing to my cadet, you have to be faster, smarter and cleaner than those other kids who have the perceived advantage over you.

I do know that Ivies give only need based scholarships. all the other schools offer academic, athletic and needs based ones though. Nobody knows why all these kids honestly go to the academy and may be an interesting topic for a research project LOL. I'm sure not 100% were gung ho "I want to be a military officer."

Like some said our opinions are products of our own experiences and sometimes they are hard to change. "You can't teach old dogs new tricks." - well sometimes they do learn.
 
So we are balanced, realize that unless you are in financial hardship, NO Ivy's is paying tuition for a D1 athlete.

Not true, Unless you believe $130k and income and $400K in family assets (not including retirement funds) constitutes hardship.

According this:

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator

Such a financial situation would yield and all-in cost of attendance at $25K. All the elite privates use roughly the same formula.
 
So we are balanced, realize that unless you are in financial hardship, NO Ivy's is paying tuition for a D1 athlete.

Not true, Unless you believe $130k and income and $400K in family assets (not including retirement funds) constitutes hardship.

According this:

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator

Such a financial situation would yield and all-in cost of attendance at $25K. All the elite privates use roughly the same formula.
If you make $130K in family income, have college age kids, and have a $400K in total net worth I propose you DO need financial aid ESPECIALLY if you are straddling your kids with the potential of $200K of UG debt! :)

I meant to say "free ride". I hear "He got a FREE RIDE at Harvard for playing _____________". I call B.S. The truth really is: "He got help from the incredibly generous endowment because of means testing." In other words, in order to get money, it is ALWAYS financial means testing. So >$200K and THE most brilliant student or THE best football player in the world will be paying full boat tuition. Hence means testing (based off of financial ability).

In your example, $25K really means $4,600 + $25K or $29,600. They like to deduct student working. Compare that to USAFA. They get paid $500--$700 a month. Our DS saved thousands in college while your example has an outlay of $120K in 4 years.

I've met a lot of USAFA parents and many of them are doing o.k. (highly probable they are north of $200K family income). That said, my conversation was related to sports and offers to Ivy's. Harvard will not give a nickel in financial aid for Hockey or Football or _________________ sport. Therefore when i hear: "he could of played for an Ivy" all to often it was economic decision and not so much the flag waving reason of wanting to be an officer.
 
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If you make $130K in family income, have college age kids, and have a $400K in total net worth I propose you DO need financial aid ESPECIALLY if you are straddling your kids with the potential of $200K of UG debt! :)

You're points are well taken, I agree with most of them.

I was simply pointing out that the cost of elite/near elite privates (from Harvard to Duke to Vanderbilt) drops like a rock as one slides down the income scale. Also, total assets does not include retirement savings, insurance cash value or equity in one's home. You can have a million dollar home and a million dollar 401k, it's still $25k. My example was a family of four with one in college. When the second goes the price will drop even more.

Yes, the Ivies have no athletic scholarships, so D1 scholarship caliber athletes have to deal with the cost questions.

Just don't call my example a "Hardship" case.
 
If you make $130K in family income, have college age kids, and have a $400K in total net worth I propose you DO need financial aid ESPECIALLY if you are straddling your kids with the potential of $200K of UG debt! :)



Just don't call my example a "Hardship" case.
Agreed with my misuse of the word "hardship". Instead of financial "hardship" it should be called financial means testing. You are also spot on about generous amount that is given out. But most "near elites" (Washington U, Carlton, and others) fall far short of what some of the most generous Ivy's can offer. Here is an interesting statistic: "Approximately 70 percent of our students receive some form of aid, and about 60 percent receive need–based scholarships and pay an average of $12,000 per year. Twenty percent of parents pay nothing. No loans required." Impressive. In other words, the student body represents society. Source: https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/how-aid-works

But in fairness, Harvard endowments will kick in after FAFSA $$'s kicks in.
 
Yep... it's that time of the year for IC bashing

No, the traditional time is April/May, when the rejections start rollin’ in. That’s when it *really* starts…….


That's when the S*** really hits the fan. You will see it here and on Facebook.
DS is going though medical school interviews. They too are looking for diversity. They want diverse UG degrees, diverse ethnicity, experiences, etc. So should I feel bad because some high profile schools yearn for a military presence in their med school student body? The students who chose medicine at USAFA are are landing in some great schools partially because they are different. I heard my neighbor b_tch because his boy got turned down for med school (was garbling on how he didn't get in because he was a white male, bla bla bla). Well then, get a better MCAT score, learn to interview better, don't study the run of the mill biology, pick a better UG college, etc. They needed to learn the rules to the game before he started.

Yea. USAFA is looking for D1 athletes. People need to get over it. OR....... Be a D1 recruited athlete!! Problem solved.
 
A story: There are politics in youth sports (coaches kids and friends rounded up etc). Sometimes it was obvious. My advice to my kids were get better than the coaches kid or friends so that you are not on the bubble. To the bitter parents who think recruited athletes stole their kids precious spot. The problem is they were bubble students. Tell them they had to get off the bubble and make it damn obvious you deserve to be there. That means actually doing your very best with intensity.

Love this! We tell DS this all the time. He is a junior and hoping to follow his sister to USAFA. She was recruited and while he also does the same sport, that takes up the same amount of time, he will not be. So he needs to be better in everything else. Is it fair, not really, but its life. He knows this, though, and works his butt off in everything else. He currently has an 800 math score and 670 verbal SAT and a 32 ACT. More testing scheduled. He has 3 APs (all 5s) completed and is in 5 more this year. He practices twice a day and works on the weekends. He is on the acdec team, and several honor societies. Will it be enough? We hope so but if not he will try again. No complaining. DD is busy at USAFA but has busier NARP friends. She enjoys some IC benefits but with those come some negatives like early morning practice and long cold walks back up the hill. Less time home due to meets or training trips. Her brother, if he is so blessed to get appointed, will have a much different experience as a narp but he is looking forward to all the opportunities he will be able to take advantage of that his sister cannot without giving up her sport. And he will be lucky to have her there too :) Nobody really has it any better then anybody else, just different.

And then there is DS #2 who might just be good enough to be recruited and plans on applying as well and hopefully getting one of those coveted med school spots. He wants to start taking the Mcat now to practice...lol, lets get through AP chem and Ap Bio at least first :)
 
Yea. USAFA is looking for D1 athletes. People need to get over it. OR....... Be a D1 recruited athlete!! Problem solved.

I am not as enthused as some of you. It sounds like, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

Of course we should strive to improve any way we can. I will continue to believe that ultimately hard work pays off.

Unfortunately I also believe that due to quotas and the need to promote our services through the play of our teams, that many of our bright, enthusiastic future officers will be taking other paths toward their dreams.
 
There is nothing wrong with taking another path to get to their dreams. If a young person wants to be an officer in the military, they will find a way no matter what; SA, ROTC, OCS, HPSP, ECP, MECP and any other way I did not mention. A real motivated high school graduate will find a way and he or she won't stop to complain that it wasn't fair. They will just make it happen and their journey will be just as rewarding.
 
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