Army Aviation

Let's try to leave the "plain and simple" declarations to the folks who know, if that's ok with everyone.:

scoutpilot, I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions since I'm not part of the "folks who know". I appologize for providing input being in an Engineering unit instead of Aviation...Us medics get luck of the draw. But it would be misleading on your part, for being someone who would know, to say that after junior officer time you are able to fly as much as one would be if they were a warrant with the same time in service
 
scoutpilot, I guess I shouldn't jump to conclusions since I'm not part of the "folks who know". I appologize for providing input being in an Engineering unit instead of Aviation...Us medics get luck of the draw. But it would be misleading on your part, for being someone who would know, to say that after junior officer time you are able to fly as much as one would be if they were a warrant with the same time in service

I'm fairly certain I made that point quite clear. There are times when you will fly like crazy. There are times when you will not. It all depends on your job, your opportunities, and the operational environment. Warrant officers frequently graduate out of day-to-day flying jobs and become leaders/staffers who see the cockpit only to meet their minimums.

As you can see, there is no "plain and simple" answer to the question of a flying career.
 
So how would you copare flying for the Army to flying for another service scoutpilot?
 
Apache

Soutpilot, you've probably gotten this question a lot. But in general, how hard is it to land an Apache Pilot slot through West Point? Or does the choice of what helicopter to fly not come until flight school? Thank you.:confused:
 
Soutpilot, you've probably gotten this question a lot. But in general, how hard is it to land an Apache Pilot slot through West Point? Or does the choice of what helicopter to fly not come until flight school? Thank you.:confused:

From several of my former classmates (who graduated from my SMC 25 years ago) currently serving in the Army Aviation branch, they told me that the decisions on the type of aircraft were made at flight school. I would be surprised if this has changed.
 
You will choose your airframe in flight school. The choices are based on your performance (order of merit list) and airframe availability. It's impossible to predict the chances of getting one particular airframe. There is no way to know how many slots will be available or where you'll fall in the OML.
 
Honestly the most competative thing about getting an aviation slot is not against the other cadets--its against the docs. A lot of people get medically disqualified form flying.
 
Hey SP,

Have you ever heard/known anyone who had an ETP/Waiver for color vision? I understand that full colorblindness is disqualifying but what about seeing vivid red/green? If someone fails to pass either the PIP or the FALANT are the allowed to test again? Thanks!
 
Hey SP,

Have you ever heard/known anyone who had an ETP/Waiver for color vision? I understand that full colorblindness is disqualifying but what about seeing vivid red/green? If someone fails to pass either the PIP or the FALANT are the allowed to test again? Thanks!

Here is the excerpt from the section in AR 40-501 which describes disqualifying factors for flying duty:

"(5) Color vision. (See ATB, Color Vision Testing and APL, Color Vision Abnormalities.) (a) Five or more errors in reading the 14 test plates of the Pseudoisochromatic Plate (PIP) Set; or (b) Any error in reading the nine test light pairs of the Farnsworth Lantern (FALANT) or the OPTEC 900 Color
Vision Tester."

As far as waivers and re-testing, I don't know. Never heard of a colorblindness waiver.
 
I realize there is no way to find out unless you're actually in aviation and doing your job, but what would your (scoutpilot) estimate be on how many hours a week you're in the office doing paper work? Also, what kind of paper work would you be doing? Thanks.
 
I realize there is no way to find out unless you're actually in aviation and doing your job, but what would your (scoutpilot) estimate be on how many hours a week you're in the office doing paper work? Also, what kind of paper work would you be doing? Thanks.

I'm not sure where this idea about "paperwork" comes from among the young folks here. What do you consider to be paperwork? If you consider anything besides actively flying an aircraft to be "paperwork" then you ought not consider a military flying career. Period. For every hour you fly, you'll spend at least one hour with your nose in a book, or reviewing Emergency Procedures & Limitations, or studying aviation publications.

Every aviator, be he commissioned or warranted, will spend the vast majority of his time outside the cockpit. I assume your unspoken question is really "How much more time will I spend flying if I'm a warrant officer versus a commissioned officer?" The answer remains "it depends."

As a commissioned officer, you'll spend time doing those nasty "leadership" things that take you out of the cockpit. You will deal with maintenance issues. You will deal with Soldier issues. You will spend hours planning training with your platoon sergeant, commander, and instructor pilots. You will do much more than wiggle the sticks and rack up flight hours.

Don't allow yourself to fall into the idea that warrant officers live in the cockpit and occasionally get out to eat and buy more cigarettes. It's not the case. Warrant officers are highly skilled technical and tactical experts, but they do more than fly.

Every warrant officer will eventually "track" into a specialty. Some become Instructor Pilots. Some become Maintenance Test Pilots. Some track Aviation Safety. Others track Tactical Operations. Each of these duties requires time in the "office" or at a desk, or in the books, etc.

As a junior warrant officer, you'll also have additional duties. You may be the company night vision goggle officer, responsible for the care, maintenance, and security of all the goggles in the unit. You might be stuck in the supply room, since aviation lacks supply NCOs at the company level. You may be the unit movement officer. Rest assured, you will have an additional duty.

What's the point? Aviation is not a warrant officer free-for-all-flying-circus. There's work to be done outside the cockpit for everyone. If, as an aviator, you get more than one flight a week, you should be very happy. Army training, additional duties, meetings, weather, and maintenance all conspire to limit your flight time. That's just reality.

Flying is not an every day occurrence.
 
Well earlier you said time in the office so I thought you meant that you had to fill out documents about missions, helicopter condition, etc. I wasn't sure what you meant by that so that is why I asked. Thanks for the help.
 
Scout,

what are the opportunities for stick time if one chooses to go into the Acquisition Cops or some other component of the Army science community? I know an aviator who got to attend the Naval Test Pilot School at Pax. River, MD and I was wondering what paths an aviator could take to obtain more of a scientific/research/test pilot type of position.
 
Scout,

what are the opportunities for stick time if one chooses to go into the Acquisition Cops or some other component of the Army science community? I know an aviator who got to attend the Naval Test Pilot School at Pax. River, MD and I was wondering what paths an aviator could take to obtain more of a scientific/research/test pilot type of position.

The Experimental Test Pilot program is a great opportunity, and is truly competitive. There are many prerequisites to apply for the program (flight time, education reqs, etc.).

Bear in mind that it's a very technical job, not the Chuck Yeager test pilot job of yore.
 
Well earlier you said time in the office so I thought you meant that you had to fill out documents about missions, helicopter condition, etc. I wasn't sure what you meant by that so that is why I asked. Thanks for the help.

Yes, every flight requires plenty of paperwork. Maintenance documents, the logbook, debrief, etc.
 
Now THAT looks fun! :biggrin:

This past summer I had the opportunity to experience a low-level course in the mountains of TN in T-1 out of Columbus AFB; it was a blast, and the low level flying reminded me (one of the reasons) why I want helicopters. :thumb:
 
Scout,

Whats going on with the OH58 replacement program? I know it was scrapped a few years back but I would assume that it would be re-impleimented sometime in the near future. I know the army has been purchasing some UH-72s but the missions of the two aircraft don't really overlap, do they?
 
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