This question is about life after Army ROTC. I just won a 4 year army scholarship and am using it at Syracuse for Aerospace Engineering. I am just looking for information regarding branching in the army one I commission. I am currently think about either Infantry or Aviation. I have always wanted to go Spec Ops and would try for either 75th or SF if I went infantry or 160th if I went aviation. However, the other thing I am concerned about is I want to spend some of my time doing the "cool guy stuff" for lack of a better phrase, rather than being stuck behind a desk per-say. What lifestyle can I expect from each of these branches if I end up going Spec Ops and what kind of life could I expect if I stayed conventional?
Army Branching Advice
- Thread starter spatti33
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Congratulations on your 4yr. Also, thanks for not asking about graduate/med/law school after graduation. It is refreshing to hear an aspiring Engineer who actually wants to do Army after commissioning. The first and most frequent advice you will get here is to concentrate on academics. You have chosen a challenging major and your GPA will be the most important single element of your Order of Merit.
Infantry is always recommended (although not a requirement) for those pursuing 75th or SF and Aviation for the 160th. Most will suggest that you take part in Ranger Challenge at your ROTC unit. It will help you maintain an extra level of physical conditioning and self-confidence.
Remember you will be an officer. There isn't a straight pipeline to the units you mentioned. You earn your way as you go. There may be some "cool guy stuff" along the way, but it can be a slog. I cannot speak for the 75th, but I can tell you that your "cool guy" time in SF would last for no more than two years. That comes after 12+ mos in a qualification course and is followed by desk time.
I recommend a book called Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command. It focuses mostly on Tier 1 units, Seal Team 6 and Delta, but it also describes the roles of other SOF, including SF, 75th and 160th. It describes the work of "ground units", doing less kinetic, but mission critical "cool guy stuff". You've never heard of them because there work doesn't make good TV television.
Wish you the best of luck!
Infantry is always recommended (although not a requirement) for those pursuing 75th or SF and Aviation for the 160th. Most will suggest that you take part in Ranger Challenge at your ROTC unit. It will help you maintain an extra level of physical conditioning and self-confidence.
Remember you will be an officer. There isn't a straight pipeline to the units you mentioned. You earn your way as you go. There may be some "cool guy stuff" along the way, but it can be a slog. I cannot speak for the 75th, but I can tell you that your "cool guy" time in SF would last for no more than two years. That comes after 12+ mos in a qualification course and is followed by desk time.
I recommend a book called Relentless Strike: The Secret History of Joint Special Operations Command. It focuses mostly on Tier 1 units, Seal Team 6 and Delta, but it also describes the roles of other SOF, including SF, 75th and 160th. It describes the work of "ground units", doing less kinetic, but mission critical "cool guy stuff". You've never heard of them because there work doesn't make good TV television.
Wish you the best of luck!
Thank you very much for your response. I will be sure to check out that book, I appreciate it!
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It’s great you have a goal you can focus on. Best bet to get where you’re looking to go is do the little things right in everything you’re working on now. Like it was previously mentioned, there are no direct pick ups for the Army into these programs. You have to do well and gain the operational level experience and maturity to be able to apply for selection. Once you’re there, every day is an assessment even if you’re picked up and do the training. The branches you mentioned are the typical routes into SOF units that people think about. With that said, each of the regiments mentioned need superb support to make their units function. You’ll also see intel and other support functions able to compete and end up in some of these pipelines. Whether you get that choice, regardless of your branch, goes back to how well you did as a LT and what kind of reputation you’ve created for yourself as a junior officer. Don’t get too far ahead of yourself that you miss out on the development and experiences you’ll have in your base branch. It’s incredibly important
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It's awesome that you aspire to do cool guy stuff in ARSOF - but I'd take it one day at a time and work through ROTC first. The Army is nothing like the movies.
A lot of people do branch infantry to go SF/75th, and aviation for 160th. With that being said, you don't necessarily have to be either of those to go to SF/75th or 160th. SF and 75th takes from all branches; and you can always branch transfer to aviation after you commission.
cb7893 hit the nail on the head. If you do go SF, you'll probably have 2 years max doing "cool guy stuff." SF operates in Operational Detachments; they have 3 different teams: Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie. If you branch transfer to SF you'll serve as a company commander of a Operational Detachment Alpha - where you will do your cool guy stuff. But after that you're pretty much going to be on the side lines, working staff and various other spots --- anything typically outside of the cool guy stuff. Sure there's outliers, but those 2 years are your golden years; after that, that's it. That's part of the reason why you see a lot of SF officers go back into conventional Army. There's other reasons, but for the sake and direction of this conversation, I just wanted to point out this sliver of it.
I can't really speak too much about 75th or 160th since I don't know too much about them. But I'll say this: if you go 75th - on average, you'll do a lot more cool guy **** over a longer period of time, since all of them (infantry and support alike) go over and do the Lord's work.
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A lot of people don't know this (and I got lucky being able to figure this out pretty quick), there's a lot of "cool guy" ish stuff you can do, without being one of those actual cool guys. ARSOF (Army Special Operations Force) -- and to the larger extent, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) is a massive place. Yes you 100% need the door kickers. But who else do you need? As Casey said, they need your sustainment (support) guys. I think I read somewhere, that for every infantryman there's 10 sustainers supporting him.
And SOCCOM is ALWAYS looking for good sustainers. A common place you'll see sustainers is in Group Support Battalion --> the sustainment unit that supports Special Forces Group. 75th needs them too; from what I've been told, if you get in to 75th you can volunteer to go on missions with 11 series - they are always happy to have sustainers come out and join the party. Unfortunately, like I said previously, I don't know much about 160th so I can't say anything for them.
Keep in mind: SF, 160th, 75th, AWG (Asymmetric Warfare Group), Delta Force/CAG/ACE (and whatever else they call themselves lol) etc -- this are just the commonly publically known SOF units. Within the Army, and across the Military, there are a lot more SMU (Special Mission Units) that don't have the publicity that these units do. And they need good sustainers too.
If you do sustainment in SOCCOM you'll definitely have a good time. You might not be door kicker cool, but you'll definitely do a lot of cool and unique things that you'd never do in conventional Army. This is the route I'm trying to go.
A lot of people do branch infantry to go SF/75th, and aviation for 160th. With that being said, you don't necessarily have to be either of those to go to SF/75th or 160th. SF and 75th takes from all branches; and you can always branch transfer to aviation after you commission.
cb7893 hit the nail on the head. If you do go SF, you'll probably have 2 years max doing "cool guy stuff." SF operates in Operational Detachments; they have 3 different teams: Alpha, Bravo, and Charlie. If you branch transfer to SF you'll serve as a company commander of a Operational Detachment Alpha - where you will do your cool guy stuff. But after that you're pretty much going to be on the side lines, working staff and various other spots --- anything typically outside of the cool guy stuff. Sure there's outliers, but those 2 years are your golden years; after that, that's it. That's part of the reason why you see a lot of SF officers go back into conventional Army. There's other reasons, but for the sake and direction of this conversation, I just wanted to point out this sliver of it.
I can't really speak too much about 75th or 160th since I don't know too much about them. But I'll say this: if you go 75th - on average, you'll do a lot more cool guy **** over a longer period of time, since all of them (infantry and support alike) go over and do the Lord's work.
--------
A lot of people don't know this (and I got lucky being able to figure this out pretty quick), there's a lot of "cool guy" ish stuff you can do, without being one of those actual cool guys. ARSOF (Army Special Operations Force) -- and to the larger extent, SOCOM (Special Operations Command) is a massive place. Yes you 100% need the door kickers. But who else do you need? As Casey said, they need your sustainment (support) guys. I think I read somewhere, that for every infantryman there's 10 sustainers supporting him.
And SOCCOM is ALWAYS looking for good sustainers. A common place you'll see sustainers is in Group Support Battalion --> the sustainment unit that supports Special Forces Group. 75th needs them too; from what I've been told, if you get in to 75th you can volunteer to go on missions with 11 series - they are always happy to have sustainers come out and join the party. Unfortunately, like I said previously, I don't know much about 160th so I can't say anything for them.
Keep in mind: SF, 160th, 75th, AWG (Asymmetric Warfare Group), Delta Force/CAG/ACE (and whatever else they call themselves lol) etc -- this are just the commonly publically known SOF units. Within the Army, and across the Military, there are a lot more SMU (Special Mission Units) that don't have the publicity that these units do. And they need good sustainers too.
If you do sustainment in SOCCOM you'll definitely have a good time. You might not be door kicker cool, but you'll definitely do a lot of cool and unique things that you'd never do in conventional Army. This is the route I'm trying to go.
Just don't give anyone the impression that you think that you are a cool guy unless you have the tab/scroll to certify it.
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For sure. Read: Don't go to SFAB lol
UHBlackhawk
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You have 2-3 years to think it over. If you even think you might want aviation there are hoops you need to jump through your junior year. Infantry and aviation are different sides of the spectrum. As an infantry LT you will be dealing with a platoon of "Joes". As an aviation LT you will be dealing with a platoon of WO's.
BossIsland0
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“the Lord’s work”
Got a good laugh out of this one.
-mmm yes, I work in global policy
-cool! What kind?
-population control.
BossIsland0
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Something that may interest you: there are special forces in the National Guard (19th and 20th SFG). In that case, you could hang out with the rangers for active duty, do you Special Forces Qualification course, and then try transitioning into one of those units. I’ve just heard about this, so I don’t know much (including whether or not there is a 5 year ADSO like regular special forces). It’s just something that you could look into. To be honest, I’m still trying to decide between USMA and ROTC at Duke (yes, I see everyone’s eyes rolling).
Maybe someone more experienced could elaborate.
Maybe someone more experienced could elaborate.
No one is rolling eyes over the decision you have the opportunity to make. Congratulations! You have set yourself for success with either choice.
The eyes would be rolling over this:
You don't just hang out with the Rangers and sure as shootin', you don't do SFAS and SFQC. Each path has an attrition rate in the 70% range. There are Green Berets who fail RASP and and Rangers who fail SFAS.
Don't mean to be harsh.
Best of luck!
BossIsland0
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Oh, no; what I was saying was along the lines of: if he made it through RASP and joined the Rangers but realized he may not want to take the SF service obligation (since he would be committing another 5 years), he could still do his AD service as a Ranger. In the case he wanted to get out, SF National Guard may be another option to get his taste of SF.
I could throw in some descriptive language of “pouring heart and soul into some of the most difficult trials the US Army conducts” but I thought that was pretty much understood on this forum. In no way are either RASP or SFAS easy. I did not mean that and apologize if that’s how it was perceived.
Sorry
No need to apologize. I was just having a little fun.
In any event, one still has to go through SFAS and the Q course in order to join one of the National Guard SF Groups.
Again congratulations and best of luck!