Army-Navy game: White Power hand symbol appears to be used during pregame broadcast

[THParent]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I think that means that if you want to say something or do something (make a sign with your hand) to express yourself, you are free to do that. If you are peaceably assembled (say, at a football game) when you exercise that freedom, I think that all the conditions have been met.

Now, if you're in the uniformed service of our nation, it is an entirely different matter (at least to me). Members of all branches of our military are held to a higher standard of professionalism. This is how it should be. Were I an officer there at the time, I would have had a conversation with the cadet(s) involved and told them in no uncertain terms that they were not to do things like that in public. Actually, they should already know that, so my ire with them would be justifiably serious. Would I have punished them or seen to it that they were punished? No. I think that my talk with them (along with their immediate superiors) would be punishment enough, and that would be that.

 

[APGINX]

Imo this is being taken exponentially out of proportion, mainly by people that are just trying to find something that shines a negative light on “America’s Game”

A comment about an article by USA Today [https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...51114001/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app] and I quote: “Isn’t the army bending over their a**** trying to recruit more people? Firstly only the bottom of the barrel would enlist under Trump and this aint doing them any favors”

The ignorance of the people that are appalled by this “racism” is really, more appalling. The fact that this of all things, is a spotlight of this game is sad too. Unless negative intent was confirmed, than all it looks like to me is these cadets having a little fun.

 

[USMCGrunt]

I, for one, could care less about this contrived "controversy" or the intent of the writer.

Rather than start a new thread, I would like to ask if the regulations about chewing gum in uniform have been suspended. I was surprised to see video of that.

 

[Impulsive]

I, for one, could care less about this contrived "controversy" or the intent of the writer.

Rather than start a new thread, I would like to ask if the regulations about chewing gum in uniform have been suspended. I was surprised to see video of that.

Interesting, I saw the same thing and thought exactly as you. If anyone had chewed gum during formation, inspection, or an "official" gathering there would have been some sort of reprimand. And I agree with you about this entire thread, lets stop getting into political and sociological issues on these forums and stick to helping disseminate information to parents and candidates that need our help. Going off into political or social "no mans land" should be left to twitter and facebook, JMHO.

 

[Korab]

The liberal media are the only ones who think this is a racist hand gesture, and even then, it only counts when done by people they disagree with. Seriously, there are about a hundred images of Biden using it, AOC, name your favorite politician and there is probably an image of them using the gesture. This is ridiculous, contrived outrage designed to divide us.

 

[A1Janitor]

The liberal media are the only ones who think this is a racist hand gesture, and even then, it only counts when done by people they disagree with. Seriously, there are about a hundred images of Biden using it, AOC, name your favorite politician and there is probably an image of them using the gesture. This is ridiculous created outrage designed to divide us.

Larry Elder is awesome.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1206132259801055233

 

[bopper]

The ADL says the ok symbol used that way is a hate symbol https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture

 

[Milly]

For a forum that is not supposed to be political, there is an awful lot of posts along the theme of " the liberals and the liberal media are to blame for everything" appearing on this thread.

For the record, the experts who actually know the history of this hand symbol, the very folks who have written more recently about it, have been VERY cautious in how they suggest folks respond to public displays of the gesture. They are clear - MOST uses are totally benign. In SOME cases, it has a different, darker meaning. Some of us, as in, me, learn every day new things about this hand symbol and well, everything else.

So how about WE not over-react, in the same way that some are accusing the media of over-reacting yesterday. And wouldn't it be nice if it could be discussed without the "us versus them" theme.

 

[Korab]

The ADL says the ok symbol used that way is a hate symbol https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture

Who the hell is the ADL and who granted them the power to decide that a three hundred years of innocuous usage of a hand gesture is suddenly racist? How about we stop giving fringe groups the power to co-opt our pop culture?

Edit: just read the article. ADL does not say it’s a racist symbol. They say the whole connection to white power thing was an internet hoax!

 

[Milly]

The ADL says the ok symbol used that way is a hate symbol https://www.adl.org/education/references/hate-symbols/okay-hand-gesture

But the ADL also says VERY clearly that it is NOT being used as a hate symbol in MOST instances. It has been used in a dark way in some moments and seems to have been adopted by a few known white supremacists. But the ADL says NOT to assume that all who use it are using it in a negative wy.

 

[Milly]

Who the hell is the ADL and who granted them the power to decide that a hundred years of innocuous usage of a hand gesture is suddenly racist? How about we stop giving fringe groups the power to co-opt our pop culture?

Please take the time to read what the ADL has said. It is nuanced.

 

[Korab]

Please take the time to read what the ADL has said. It is nuanced.

Again, who the hell is the ADL and who gave them the power to decide what hand gestures mean in America? Screw nuance. Why are we letting an internet hoax and a couple skinheads co-opt the meaning of a hand gesture that is over 300 years old, such that we are allowing certain individuals to accuse service academy attendees of making white power gestures?

 

[Milly]

Imo this is being taken exponentially out of proportion, mainly by people that are just trying to find something that shines a negative light on “America’s Game”

A comment about an article by USA Today [https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...51114001/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app] and I quote: “Isn’t the army bending over their a**** trying to recruit more people? Firstly only the bottom of the barrel would enlist under Trump and this aint doing them any favors”

The ignorance of the people that are appalled by this “racism” is really, more appalling. The fact that this of all things, is a spotlight of this game is sad too. Unless negative intent was confirmed, than all it looks like to me is these cadets having a little fun.

The reaction to the hand display in this instance is the identical reaction that has occurred in several other recent instances, none related to the military. I do not believe there is any reason to think that the reaction is driven by a desire to shine a negative light on this particular football game.

The concern about the hand symbol is not ignorance, but to over-state the concern is problematic. The experts on this issue have been VERY clear to explain that the usage is almost always NOT anything negative. It IS used in some cases as a racist symbol but most of the times we see it, it is NOT being used that way.

Why did you pick that comment off of that USA Today article? Just like here, there will be comments from all over the place, some even kinda ugly and unfair. That particular comment is just mean-spirited. So ignore it.

 

[FCH76]

That’s not a racist symbol.

I wish whoever made that up was arrested.

Kids for years where I am from do it ... the object is to get the other person to look at your hand. If they look at it you get to punch them in the shoulder. It’s called the circle game.

When I grew up it meant something was AOK. This racist crap is nonsense.

My son said the same thing. It's a game to get you to look at the circle, if you look, you get thumped or something like that. This could have happened to any of our kids. I feel so terrible for that cadet.

 

[Impulsive]

Again, who the hell is the ADL and who gave them the power to decide what hand gestures mean in America? Screw nuance. Why are we letting an internet hoax and a couple skinheads co-opt the meaning of a hand gesture that is over 300 years old, such that we are allowing certain individuals to accuse service academy attendees of making white power gestures?

While I am not 100% certain, most references to the "ADL" are references to the Jewish Anti Defamation League. They are what they are, but anything posted by groups that advocate for certain specific nationalities, religions, or races should be taken as such. And these forums are not a place for such references, or comments IMHO. I am tired of people referencing groups that "fit" their political or social views and have NOTHING to do with these forums.

 

[kp2001]

May I suggest the movie “Waiting” for anyone with a teenagers sense of humor and a desire to see the “game” in action: Waiting... https://g.co/kgs/oeY1sx

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Great. So once again some poor kid is going to have his life ruined and be tried/convicted in the court of public opinion.

 

[CalvinBall]

I, for one, could care less about this contrived "controversy" or the intent of the writer.

Rather than start a new thread, I would like to ask if the regulations about chewing gum in uniform have been suspended. I was surprised to see video of that.

During the March On no less!!!!!

 

[Devil Doc]

I have a couple hand gestures that have been appropriated by unsavory groups.

I must be really careful when I use them.

 

[NavyHoops]

Lots of opinions here. Why we live in a great country... everyone can have them. Let’s keep everything above board.

I know many are asking why allow this thread. I think for many young candidates and current Mids/Cadets they need to see what kind of responsibility comes with the privilege of attending one our great SAs. The spotlight is there no matter how minor someone thinks something is. The country has high expectations for those who attend our SAs as they should. Something that may or may not have been totally benign, has now gotten a massive national spotlight. One day they could be the officer assigned to perform the investigation into this. They could also have a unit with a race issue one day. It’s important to understand that as an officer there can and will be incidents that no matter how much training you go through, you will be faced with incidents you had zero clue you would be faced with. That is where the training kicks in to use your soft skills, problem solving and critical thinking to find solutions.