Army ROTC drug test

[Jcleppe]

I have no intention of lying abot anything. That's not something I typically do. I might make a dumb decision every now and then, but I'll tell the truth about it.

The problem you may have is with your security clearance. You will start that process once you are contracted. The advice not to lie is a good one, the problem is that when you answer yes you may be required to apply for a waiver which they are not giving much lately. The waiver will be the problem if required, if you do not answer yes to the question and they find out later...and they can...it will be even worse for you.

You have put yourself between a rock and a hard place.

As far as your attitude....if you think these people were tough on you, just wait.

From your other posts it sounds like you will be non-contracted for at least the first year. Your bigger problem then the drug test will be the fact that you have been disqualified for ADD through Dodmerb according to your previous posts.

I would talk to the Cadre as soon as you get to school and tell them about the drug use last month, it would be better to know what your chances and options are early rather then wait until you have put so much time into the program.

As far as not being the first 17 year old to try drugs and want to serve in the military, your right, but remember you could also not be the first to be denied that opportunity because of the drug use, even if it was just one time. You will also not be the first to have to deal with the consequences of your decisions.

 

[Pima]

For the TS clearance issue, it should also be mentioned that this is not a one time only deal. For as long as you are in the military every 5 yrs you will be required to get a new TS clearance.

This issue will be there forever.

For other candidates, they not only look into drugs, alcohol, police issues, but financial issues too. Your credit rating will be pulled...don't think that credit is just about getting car loans or mtgs., it will be looked at by the govt. too.

I do agree with Jcleppe,

If you think this crowd is hard, just wait until you show up at ROTC, we look and sound like innocent kittens compared to the cadre and the CC's.

Believe it or not Nelson we are not trying to attack you. We are trying to get you in front of that 8 ball you decided to get behind.

You can't even fathom 3 yrs from now as a rising SR, but I can tell you that in a blink of an eye it will be here, and in a blink of an eye you will have matured to the level that you will see our intentions were nothing, but good to get you there.

We are not your enemy, and at least from me, I am sorry if in anyway you feel that way. It was never my intention.

I will say I have to disagree with Jcleppe about discussing this with the CC. You made a youthful indiscretion, you understand that and now it is time to move on.

As far as the ADD issue, I do agree with Jcleppe. That is really going to be the bigger problem you are facing is you are a DQ from DodMERB. You can't commission if you are not physically qualified. However, if I recall correctly you only need to be off meds for X amt of time and that issue goes away. I thought it was at least a yr.

When the retention rate is low waivers are handed out like candy on Halloween, when the rate is high waivers are hard to come by. Most economists are saying we will not pull out of this economy until mid 2013, and that means retention rates will remain high. That hurts your odds of getting a waiver, purely due to the fact of supply and demand.

Good Luck. As all of us will tell you if you really want to serve you will be pinning on butter bars someway, somehow.

 

[goaliedad]

Are all ROTC cadets drug tested? or just scholarship cadets? and when is it done?

Nelson, getting back to the original question that started all the "stuff", please look back at what could be inferred looking at how you presented your first questions.

We have plenty of young folks come here and say "I did X when I was Y age. Will it affect my ability to contract?" The typical answer to these questions is, "Answer all questions asked with the full truth and usually one-time indescretions are noted and only brought up if something else happens. Otherwise you are generally OK."

This approach demonstrates up front an awareness and acceptance of a mistake and its possible consequences. Generally this is a good thing.

That seemed to be missing in the first post, which seems to have set off the alarm.

While I can understand your concern about the possible testing, if that is perceived to be your primary concern, then that is viewed negatively.

One thing that you will need to understand going into the military is that you will be asked many things that could make you uncomfortable. They will always ask these questions of you before making any judgement. They may test in the background (such as is done for security clearances or in this case a drug test). When your answers do not match the background information (and you are providing the more favorable answer), a red flag goes up and you get to answer a lot more questions without the presupposition of innocence at that point.

It is better to admit fault when they cannot prove it than to deny fault when they can.

And finally to answer your first set of questions, it doesn't matter which cadets if any are tested and when. You only have your own actions to answer to. Do so honestly and completely and hope for the best because once you have erred, forgiveness is out of your control. Be prepared to give a specimen at any time and answer all questions asked.

 

[-Bull-]

If you have not used since 4 July, you should not test positive, however when you report to your unit, you will have to fill out the Form 104-R which will ask about drug use. When you answer yes for that question and put the date you did it and how many times you've used, your command will put in to CC for a waiver. Additionally, you cannot contract with AROTC until 6 months have passed since you used. This will cause you to miss out on a few months of stipend and delay the payment of your tuition.

 

[nelson]

I'm reading all this and realizing nobody tried to attack, just help me. Sorry if I offended anyone.

As for disclosure, I'll fill out the form, say I used and that will be that. I'm not on scholarship so that won't have any impact. I just don't really want to start out as the kid who tested positive and everyone thinks is a pothead. Thanks a lot, I've surprisingly learned a lot here.

 

[Pima]

Nelson,

I am glad you have re-read the posts and understand we came from a place of good intentions.

Now, let me say this to all posters/lurkers.

ROTC units are tight knit. They are a community upon themselves. No cadet (GMC or POC) will give a rat's behind if you are on scholarship when it comes to reviewing your abilities against other cadets/mids.

Scholarship cadets are not treated like the "golden child" because they were awarded a scholarship. Many do succeed because that scholarship is the monkey on their back. They know if they don't have X.YZ gpa it can be pulled and not only do they lose a military career, but because they could only afford to attend the school on scholarship, they lose their college education.

~~~That fear motivates them to be the best.

Nobody discusses which cadet is on scholarship and which isn't regarding performance. It is not an ROTC issue.

That being said, the fact is most likely your name will be discussed early on. Reason why is because the command will know 60 days prior to entering college, you smoked Pot, knowing you were going ROTC. They will keep an eye on you, because now you are tied to their careers. Cadets getting caught smoking Pot will be a part of their AD OPR (Officer Promotion Review) or PRF (Performance Review File). That is a part of their military record, and they are not going to take a bullet for you.

In the AFROTC system the CC(Company Commander ---AD O6) will tell the CCC (Cadet Company Commander ---ROTC SR), who will inform his FCC (Flight Cadet Commander) to watch you for any signs of trouble. This will occur in a meeting and gossip does tend to follow, although it shouldn't, it does.

So honestly, yes, you will initially be that guy. It is now up to you to prove you AREN'T that guy. You will need to prove yourself to them that it was the dumbest thing you ever did.

As I said before, for most ROTC units they deal with underage drinking on campus. They understand peer pressure. For you, they already know you "folded" regarding peer pressure and smoke Pot, now they need to make sure you don't fold on the more common issue at college...underage drinking. I have to say the "17 yo smoking pot is common" was your way of defending yourself. My kids didn't...trust parents, we were 17 too, and Pot has a distinct odor, so do the glassy eyes and the foolish behavior while you decide to eat a gallon of ice cream. We are not dumb. The only thing I would agree with you on, is that some 17 yo's smoked Pot, but ALL of their parents knew they did!

Anyone here who is either a cadet, or a parent of one can tell you that both issues will appear at your feet within days if not weeks of entering college. ROTC Commanders were college kids too, just like your folks, just like us. They are not going to place their cranium in the sand and say it doesn't exist. The difference is your folks will still love you, they are not your folks.

Walk in and be prepared to live under a microscope until you prove to them that you are worthy.

If you were my child this is what I would tell you:

Make an appointment with the CC and CCC day one.

Discuss this with them. They will respect your honesty and the trust issue will be easier to overcome.

If it is true you have ADD and were medically DQ from DodMERB. Get that on the table now.
~~~They are AD, they can work the system with you to get a waiver. Hiding it from them creates:
~Trust issue
~Spinning your wheels because DoDMERB will be an issue prior to commissioning....putting you behind the 8 ball.

They need to be "clued in" if you want to become an officer in the military. If I am correct you are AROTC, pm Marist or Clarkson on how to approach this with the unit. They are AD AROTC, they are the only 2 posters I would say LISTEN TO regarding directions. The rest of us are just giving opinions from the outside, including me. Doesn't mean that the outsiders are wrong, just means that if the 2 of them have a consensus on how to move forward for you that you should use their knowledge.

If you don't know either. Here are their latest posts, hit their name and you can pm them.
Marist College ROTC : http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?p=204159#post204159
Clarksonarmy : http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=21280

Good luck.

 

[-Bull-]

I just don't really want to start out as the kid who tested positive and everyone thinks is a pothead.

If you think you're the first person in ROTC to try pot, you are mistaken. There are cadets in ROTC right now that have tried far worse than marijuana. We've all been young before, you're not the first person to check the yes box. The only people that will know what you've done will be you, your instructor, the BN secretary and your PMS. You've shown us that it was an honest mistake and shouldn't happen again. Fill out whatever paperwork is required, be honest, and drive on. Good Luck

 

[Pima]

Bull,

No offense, but what college do you go to? You have said the same for underage drinking and scholarship jeopardy.

I am not an ostrich, but according to you:
1. Cadets have smoke pot, no harm, no foul
2. Cadets have used illegal drugs, no harm, no foul
3. Cadets drink underage, no harm. no foul

Our DS's det. (AFROTC) makes them report/stand at attention in front of the CoC for parking tickets on campus!

Underage drinking on campus would = BOOT!

Are you sure you want to portray the AROTC program that just accepts every cadet breaking the law? Think about it, that is what you are saying to rising SRs in HS...GO be free, it won't hurt you!

 

[clarksonarmy]

The form Bull referred to above is not the 104r, it is the CC Form 139r. Google it, look at the second page, block 44 (make sure you are looking at the Dec 07 version). You will see what the choices are. If you are just enrolling in ROTC and not contracting one time use shouldn't be a problem, because the next time this form is going to be looked at is a year or more from now, unless you get a scholarship offer on campus. One time use, more than 6 months ago is generally not a big deal, but depending on your chain of command you may still have to get a Battalion waiver. You may even have to see the PMS and explain the situation.

 

[-Bull-]

Bull,

No offense, but what college do you go to? You have said the same for underage drinking and scholarship jeopardy.

I am not an ostrich, but according to you:
1. Cadets have smoke pot, no harm, no foul
2. Cadets have used illegal drugs, no harm, no foul
3. Cadets drink underage, no harm. no foul

Our DS's det. (AFROTC) makes them report/stand at attention in front of the CoC for parking tickets on campus!

Underage drinking on campus would = BOOT!

Are you sure you want to portray the AROTC program that just accepts every cadet breaking the law? Think about it, that is what you are saying to rising SRs in HS...GO be free, it won't hurt you!

I go to a large SEC University. No offense taken. I probably need to restate what I'm trying to say. If you read again, I did not say that cadets who have tried pot or other drugs have enrolled in ROTC no harm, no foul. I never said anything about the consequences of them trying those drugs prior to ROTC. What I meant to say was that he is not the first cadet hopeful to try any of these things. When he gets to his school, if he is on scholarship, he will sit down and fill out CC Form 139R (thanks for the correction, Clarkson) and let his command know what all he has done. They will take it from there. I'm not advocating underage drinking/drugs, but we all know that high schoolers do dumb stuff and try dumb things.

The Army has many soldiers that are former drug users/alcoholics/gang members etc. All of these soldiers have overcome these challenges and made better life choices i.e U.S Army. I'm simply saying to the OP that if he has only tried it once, it should not hinder his future.

 

[Pima]

Agreed, Mistake made, Lesson learned!

 

[patentesq]

i'm honestly not sure which part of my comment was inappropriate, immature, or offensive, maybe you could fill me in on that? i'm simply stating it's unreasonable for people to automatically jump to me giving up a dream of serving as an officer in the Army because i used marijuana once. was it a bad decision? yes. do i plan to make it again? absolutely not. what i'm saying to all those who suggested i take a different route is that it is completely ridiculous to tell me i shouldn't join because i tried it once. how you don't find that to be judgemental is beyond me. quite frankly, i don't recall asking anyone about that. i simply asked if i would be drug tested.

nelson, I apologize for taking so long to respond (I was at West Point last week and over the weekend and couldn't respond adequately from my iPhone). The responses that followed, though, are truly better than anything I could have written.

Candidly, I took offense to the "WTF" comment you made to the other posters. I also viewed your OP, perhaps wrongly, as seeking advice on how to beat the system. I think you understand that this does not work. And I think you also understand that being a leader means leading by example, every day, even if there is not even the remotest possibility of being caught for doing something wrong. As former U.S. Congressman JC Watts said, "Character is doing the right thing when no one is looking." So in this regard, it simply does not matter whether you would be drug tested or not. You should be prepared to fess up, even though there may never be a drug test in your military career (but the military does follow the old the Reagan addage "trust, but verify", so that means that there will be drug test for contracted cadets and active duty personnel).

Whatever you do, however tempting it might be, don't compound the problem by concealing your mis-step when asked. The mistake you have made will not follow you for long, but anything less than total forthrightness during this critical period will follow you your entire life.

The folks who responded to your message were not being judgmental. They actually want you (and the others who read these posts) to learn from mistakes -- and everyone does make mistakes -- and to know that honor and leadership in the military means so much more than in the civilian sector because the lives of other individuals critically depend on it. These are actually people who give their heart and soul to help others on SAF (which is why I got a little ticked at the "WTF" comment).

Good luck as you embark on an exciting new phase in your life. One thing I can say about you is that you aren't afraid to lock horns and defend a position you feel strongly about and appear to have thick skin -- both are wonderful traits for a leader.

 

[dunninla]

I've got a follow-on question to this as a parent.

Drinking alcohol prior to the age of 21 is illegal in the U.S. ROTC takes place on college campuses, where parties often...no, usually, have kegs of beer. I am assuming that since ROTC cadets are required to uphold the laws of the United States (however that is worded), a cadet may not drink beer at all.

Looking beyond the issue that if a cadet drinks at a party some other cadet is likely to observe this and report it (assuming there is an honor code of some sort), and the fact that alocohol is technically a "drug" and alcohol use would be reported in the drug use question, is there a question on the forms referenced above that specifically asks a cadet if they have drunk alcohol, and if so, when?

I seem to recall the DODMERB form that did ask that.

The whole issue of social drinking is a strange one ---

-Officers (from O11 on down) drink without breaking the law
-drinking was legal in the U.S. in some states at age 18 until the Federal Gov't (I believe this was about 25 years ago) required any State using Federal Highway money to change the legal drinking age to 21... and they all executed the change in order to receive Highway money.
-An 18 year old is old enough to make the adult decision to go into combat, and to vote, but not to drink?
-in most countries, teenagers are served wine or beer with the evening meal, where for example in our NATO partner Germany the legal drinking age for beer and wine is 16. In the rest of Europe the drinking age is 18, and in North America, it is 18 in Mexico and 19 in Canada. The US is pretty much unique in establishing the legal drinking age at 21. Note... I don't necessarily disagree with this law, as I am pretty socially conservative ... but I do understand how the US alone-on-a-limb law seems quite odd to 18 year olds in the U.S., and that would include cadets.

As a parent I have advised my DD that social (beer or wine) drinking is 100% verboten until she reaches 21... regardless of how widely under 21 drinking is accepted generally in a society, or how different the law is to other countries' laws.

 

[patentesq]

Hi, dunninla! I think the main point is the one you made about adherence to and upholding the law (technically, alcohol is not a "drug" within the meaning of the Controlled Substances Act). Simply because conduct is lawful for some citizens does not necessarily mean it is lawful for others. For example, if a licensed gun owner possesses a firearm, it is not a big deal. But place that same gun in the hands of a convicted felon on, say, probation, he or she will go to jail. The Army needs to know that the officer candidate is not only prepared to follow the law but also prepared to enforce it.

Besides, I hear that drinking under the age of 21 has been linked to blindness.

 

[Luigi59]

Drinking alcohol prior to the age of 21 is illegal in the U.S.

Actually it all depends on where you are at (which state) and who you are with.

In some states, it is 100% legal for a parent to serve alcohol to their child in their own home. (30 states)

In other states, it is 100% legal for a parent to purchase and allow their minor child to consume alcohol in a restaurant (10 states).

42 States That Allow Underage (under 21) Alcohol Consumption

 

[bruno]

Actually it all depends on where you are at (which state) and who you are with.

In some states, it is 100% legal for a parent to serve alcohol to their child in their own home. (30 states)

In other states, it is 100% legal for a parent to purchase and allow their minor child to consume alcohol in a restaurant (10 states).

42 States That Allow Underage (under 21) Alcohol Consumption

That's a very interesting web site with some information that I didn't know- for example that in Massachusetts a minor can be served alcohol in a restaurant if the parent consents. Wow- one law in Massachusetts that isn't completely out to lunch (which I wasn't aware of when my son was a minor).
I would agree with the posters who suggest that you not take underage drinking lightly- not because I see having a beer as some huge moral failure (it was 18 when I was in college and i was certainly happy to exercise my rights), but because the consequences potentially are really pretty steep. It takes no great crystal ball to see that the services are able to pick and choose right now who they will commission and the competition is stiff. You really don't want to make it easy for them to eliminate you - and this will make it a "no-brainer". So in the interest of your future- obey the law.

As an aside- IMPO the 21 year old drinking age is idiotic- if for no one else, at least for soldiers (as dunninla points out- you can go to war but not buy a beer?!) It's still around because 18-21 year olds don't vote. If you want this to go away- become a voting block that congressmen have to take into account. You will get your rights then. Until then- 18-21 year olds need to live with the laws that they can't be bothered to change.

 

[Ohio2015Parent]

That's a very interesting web site with some information that I didn't know- for example that in Massachusetts a minor can be served alcohol in a restaurant if the parent consents. Wow- one law in Massachusetts that isn't completely out to lunch (which I wasn't aware of when my son was a minor).
I would agree with the posters who suggest that you not take underage drinking lightly- not because I see having a beer as some huge moral failure (it was 18 when I was in college and i was certainly happy to exercise my rights), but because the consequences potentially are really pretty steep. It takes no great crystal ball to see that the services are able to pick and choose right now who they will commission and the competition is stiff. You really don't want to make it easy for them to eliminate you - and this will make it a "no-brainer". So in the interest of your future- obey the law.

As an aside- IMPO the 21 year old drinking age is idiotic- if for no one else, at least for soldiers (as dunninla points out- you can go to war but not buy a beer?!) It's still around because 18-21 year olds don't vote. If you want this to go away- become a voting block that congressmen have to take into account. You will get your rights then. Until then- 18-21 year olds need to live with the laws that they can't be bothered to change.

Completely agree. If they(18-21 year olds)want to legally drink they should get busy with organizing In Ohio, I have allowed DS to have alcoholic beverage/s in my home. Also, served it to my DD prior to her leaving for college. They have been drinking communion wine since 2nd grade. HOWEVER, I also completely agree, illegal underage drinking is MUCH too risky for a ROTC cadet. DS understands the difference and knows the risk, a few hours of "fun" isn't worth his ambition to serve his country

 

[dunninla]

Luigi, thanks for the links.

It seems many states allowing the consumption of alcohol with parental permission and visible presence... I wonder if that means that a minor may consume alcohol while video chatting with a parent several states away?

 

[Luigi59]

Please keep in mind that although the state may allow it (underage alcohol consumption with a parent), if the academy command / cadet-midshipman conduct rules / Commandant / Superintendent has forbidden the use of alcohol for underage cadets-mids, you still can be punished.

Yes, it has happened - underage cadet drinking a beer with father, at home, in a state where it is legal - didn't matter, cadet was disciplined by academy (I assume UCMJ rules took precedence instead of civilian law).

 

[AGFrank43]

Are all ROTC cadets drug tested? or just scholarship cadets? and when is it done?

Hey Nelson,

Hoping this finds you in good health. Idk if you are still in the military or whatever. I actually don’t know if you can even still see this but I was actually going through a problem where I got fed an edible at a “party” on campus. I say party because I guess that is the correct term but we really were just watching tv and eating snacks. I got either a gummy bear type edible and that really messed me up. I popped hot on the test and almost lost everything. I scoured the internet to find any type of help on this thing.
Well I came across this thread and kinda got it. Aside from the initial responses that seemed to demote someone that has had a run in with drugs instead of be helpful and give advice. I realize your older but history has a tendency to repeat itself so thanks.