I think the big struggle with that in the present, is the fight for slots. My top choice school gets 1 slot, either to air assault or airborne. So the struggle is real. The fight is hard, and you have to prove yourself to be the best candidate, in order to get put in it. (The words of the ltc at my #1 choice school.)
AROTC Physical Fitness
- Thread starter StowieJ
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Vista123
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buy good bots that are within regs before you start to ruck and have them well broken in before school.
you do NOT want to risk an injury
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Vista's son has one way to do it. DS used to build what's called a "sand baby". Take a large sturdy plastic bag and fill it with sand until it's at the desired weight (He uses 35 lbs but should work it up quite a bit this summer in prep for USMC TBS). Neatly seal the bag and then fold excess neatly around the bag. The wrap layers of duct tape around it to provide additional sealing and some protection against punctures.
There are plenty of training programs out there you can follow. The summer between freshman and sophomore years my son was following this program which is WAY more than what you would need to do to be impressive when you arrive: http://www.patriotdude.com/marine-corps-training/marsoc-workout-10-week-workout-schedule
Vista123
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Vista's DS' back was pretty torn up using the round barbell type weights. Kinnem's DS' sand baby seems a better way to go.
regardless, showing up injured is a no-no
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It is possible. You will meet a few guys that can rip them off pretty quick.
I'd like to see it happen fastest I've ever seen was an asian guy who gould do about 1 a second, maybe 1.5 a second.
emwvmi01
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A few thoughts from a field grade officer in the Army on Physical Fitness and preparing yourself in no particular order.
1. Focus right now passing the Army Physical Fitness Test. Realistic goals are to max push ups and sit ups and to get lower than 14 minutes on the 2 mile run. You should also focus on running 4-5 miles at a 7minute to 7:30 pace to keep conditioned for unit PT. For push ups and sit ups work outs a few times a week should focus on doing sets of of 100 (increment at first) and then build up to fewer increments but always focused more on form than speed. Speed comes with form. All those standards are higher than pass for a few reasons
A. You want to be able to do PT at the unit level and not have it be a cause for concern. I know for those going to SMCs, SAs or later to Army Schools an induction phases are much easier mentally if you're in good physical condition. The more the physcial strain ther ewill be mental strain.
B. It sets the right tone. Every unit I have been in over 13 years and additonally as a Cadet the acceptable range for an officer is to score over a 270 and really shooting for 300 plus. This is a physical business and part of that is being a leader physically. Unless you're a cross-country or track star you will probably have a Soldier (servicemember) in your ranks who can do something amzaing like run a sub 11 as a PFC but you don't want to be in the last 1/3 coming across the line on the APFT as an officer.
2. I disagree that PT is based on what the MSIIIs feel like planning and if that is the case the unit is flat wrong. Army Physical Readiness Training can be found in TC 3-22.20 which includes pretty much every workout you'll see conducted in TRADOC and FORSCOM units as well as in Cadet Command. This includes the standard prepartory drills and cool down drills. The manual is written more like a text book for Physical Readiness and while it has some issues it can show what is being done in the force now. The one thing I think it does focus on is transitioning initial entry Soldiers from civilian to acceptable levels of physical fitness. It then has progressive workouts for units based on where they are in their readiness templates. My bet is that MS IIIS if they are leading PRT are conducting workouts from this manual and being evaluated by the Cadre. Their is a website armyprt.com which lays out a lot of this in a public access forum (most Army regs require an account to access).
3. On the boots issue I would not buy boots until after your MS1 year and even then I would seriously consider using issue boots. I say that as sone one who spent a lot of time in light infantry units and was told as a 2LT that officers should be wary of using anything their Soldiers will not have access to. I have foot marched a lot and the issue boots work fine if they are broken in and your feet are conditioned and toughened. I know this an emotional issue every year for incoming cadets but I am convinced that most of these issues have everything to do with breaking the boots in and building up calluses on feet as opposed to the boots themselves. Bottom line, the first few times you foot march over 4-6 miles you'll probably feel it. I would also wait on your foot marching program until you can start at school and learn some good techniques from the NCOs and Officers who have been at it awhile (11, 18 and 13F series MOS will know what they're doing).
Anyway, end of rant but bottom line the better shape you're in the more fun you'll have leading Soldiers.
1. Focus right now passing the Army Physical Fitness Test. Realistic goals are to max push ups and sit ups and to get lower than 14 minutes on the 2 mile run. You should also focus on running 4-5 miles at a 7minute to 7:30 pace to keep conditioned for unit PT. For push ups and sit ups work outs a few times a week should focus on doing sets of of 100 (increment at first) and then build up to fewer increments but always focused more on form than speed. Speed comes with form. All those standards are higher than pass for a few reasons
A. You want to be able to do PT at the unit level and not have it be a cause for concern. I know for those going to SMCs, SAs or later to Army Schools an induction phases are much easier mentally if you're in good physical condition. The more the physcial strain ther ewill be mental strain.
B. It sets the right tone. Every unit I have been in over 13 years and additonally as a Cadet the acceptable range for an officer is to score over a 270 and really shooting for 300 plus. This is a physical business and part of that is being a leader physically. Unless you're a cross-country or track star you will probably have a Soldier (servicemember) in your ranks who can do something amzaing like run a sub 11 as a PFC but you don't want to be in the last 1/3 coming across the line on the APFT as an officer.
2. I disagree that PT is based on what the MSIIIs feel like planning and if that is the case the unit is flat wrong. Army Physical Readiness Training can be found in TC 3-22.20 which includes pretty much every workout you'll see conducted in TRADOC and FORSCOM units as well as in Cadet Command. This includes the standard prepartory drills and cool down drills. The manual is written more like a text book for Physical Readiness and while it has some issues it can show what is being done in the force now. The one thing I think it does focus on is transitioning initial entry Soldiers from civilian to acceptable levels of physical fitness. It then has progressive workouts for units based on where they are in their readiness templates. My bet is that MS IIIS if they are leading PRT are conducting workouts from this manual and being evaluated by the Cadre. Their is a website armyprt.com which lays out a lot of this in a public access forum (most Army regs require an account to access).
3. On the boots issue I would not buy boots until after your MS1 year and even then I would seriously consider using issue boots. I say that as sone one who spent a lot of time in light infantry units and was told as a 2LT that officers should be wary of using anything their Soldiers will not have access to. I have foot marched a lot and the issue boots work fine if they are broken in and your feet are conditioned and toughened. I know this an emotional issue every year for incoming cadets but I am convinced that most of these issues have everything to do with breaking the boots in and building up calluses on feet as opposed to the boots themselves. Bottom line, the first few times you foot march over 4-6 miles you'll probably feel it. I would also wait on your foot marching program until you can start at school and learn some good techniques from the NCOs and Officers who have been at it awhile (11, 18 and 13F series MOS will know what they're doing).
Anyway, end of rant but bottom line the better shape you're in the more fun you'll have leading Soldiers.
You hit pretty much every topic I was concered about.
Why do you say not to have anything that your men can't get access to? I just assumed that anyone could use any boots that were within the standard.
I understand that their salary bracket is significantly lower than an officers, but do enlisted men not usually buy their own boots?
When I commented that PT would be what the MS3s planned, it was in reference to the question of what is a typical PT session.
TC3-22.20 has more then what can be done in one PT session, the MS3s will choose from many options when planning PT plus add some of their own. There are to many options to be able to tell anyone what a typical morning PT will be like.
Great post by the way, I hope all new cadets get a chance to read it.
USMCGrunt
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Fantastic post by emwvmi01.
Regarding StowieJ's question, the issue isn't a question of standards but access. Enlisted personnel don't often have the disposable income of officers and can't afford to go buy fancy gear to use. Officer's choosing to buy the very best while their enlisted personnel have to use "inferior" issued gear can appear elitist. This sentiment may be debated, but it was certainly the prevailing rule of thumb when I was a Marine Infantry Officer.
Regarding StowieJ's question, the issue isn't a question of standards but access. Enlisted personnel don't often have the disposable income of officers and can't afford to go buy fancy gear to use. Officer's choosing to buy the very best while their enlisted personnel have to use "inferior" issued gear can appear elitist. This sentiment may be debated, but it was certainly the prevailing rule of thumb when I was a Marine Infantry Officer.
I understand yout point, except with boots. I have particularly wide feet, so I doubt I would love anything that is assigned to me. I guess my real question is whether or not it would be common place to buy boots within an ROTC unit. I've heard both sides of the story.
How much does a nice pair of army authorized boots cost? As a "broke college student" I wouldn't be buying the best on the market, just a pair that would be mine, that I could take care of.
I think the issue would end up being more along the lines of a "you could, and you're not going to get in trouble for it, but you probably shouldn't." Kind of deal... Are you saying that you used standard issue equipment exclusively the entire time you were an infantry officer?
USMCGrunt
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Yes.
And cursed it every day along with the men I served with.
There were better civilian backpacks, clothing, sleeping bags, tents and boots available. I wondered how our government wouldn't provide its military with the very best (until I learned about the government procurement process).
Its a different world today. I acknowledge that. I can't speak for how this issue is handled in today's "real world" active duty units. I can tell you that my DS is a NROTC Marine Option and has purchased his own pair of authorized "light" boots for running.
What all does the military privide you with? I hear you have to buy your own class As, but is that it?
Full Metal Bulldog
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In my experience a good portion of ROTC cadets have bought a $500 pair of Advanced Sierra-Tango Tactical Extreme Operator-Zulu Hard-Charger SEAL-certified Bada**-Industries boots. They haven't really been looked down upon by our enlisted cadre for buying them except for being the brunt of jokes involving poor budgeting. I have a pair of mid-grade Bates boots that are an upgrade in comfort and quality from the issue boots but didn't cost a car payment either. Just don't be excessive and you'll be fine, and even if you are, I don't think you'll lose any friends over it. But, my experience is only with ROTC, and not with the real Army, so I don't have a lot of experience with the very junior enlisted.
Did you buy your own boots?
Future2LtMom
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My DS has the same issue that you do regarding wide feet. Shoes have been the bane of his existence from the day he was born. He made the Ranger Challenge Team and, instead of asking for some kind of expensive electronic gizmo or other such temporary pleasure for Christmas, he asked for boots, instead. We ended up getting him a brand called Danner (don't know the model, but I can find out if you're interested). I think they cost around $120-$130. Definitely not cheap, but they made all the difference in the world for him.
I agree, I can do 65-70 in a minute touching my chest to the floor almost. It's all about dropping down without resisting at all. Once I get in a rhythm if I stop that's when they get difficult.
2019 WestPoint class appointee
Recipient of 4 year army rotc scholarship.
Let me try that right now... I can usually get about 55-60 in a minute, so I think the trick for me is going to be pushing up and then dropping as quick as possible. Maybe even pulling a bit?
What I do is train 30 second and minute intervals to improve my time. My upper body weighs a lot so I may go down faster than most. If you can get one every second you would easily max as 60 in a minute means you only have around 10 more to max out.
2019 WestPoint class appointee
Recipient of 4 year army rotc scholarship.