AROTC scholarship deferment possibility

[BlewSkies81]

We have hired an ROTC consultant through LTC Kirkland's company to help us with our daughter's AROTC application - we had our first meeting today and really liked him - he just retired after a very long army career, most recently as the ROO at Vanderbilt, LTC Bautch.

My daughter is a rising senior planning to apply for AROTC scholarship and will most likely do Chinese Flagship at Indiana, ASU or Ole Miss. She is already an advanced low Mandarin speaker and plans to use her capstone year to study at DLI. Her plan A is to apply for and win the academic year NSLI-Y scholarship (she studied in Taiwan for 6 weeks last summer on a NSLI-Y scholarship and liked it so much she wants to do the academic year program) as a gap year. Funding for that program is still up in the air due to Trump's slash and burn although cultural exchange/language programs - and especially ones for critical languages - tend to have good bipartisan support.

When we explained this situation to LTC Bautch he said a deferment would be possible and he had a student who deferred both the university and the AROTC scholarship to study in Taiwan for a year and came back to his AROTC scholarship waiting for him. I had not heard this was possible before? Has anyone here navigated a deferment? LTC Bautch said they are case by case basis but for something like critical language study he thought it would likely be approved.

 

[Ivy22]

I personally haven’t heard of someone winning an ROTC scholarship then deferring for a year. Usually scholarships are given out with the end goal of commissioning that person 4 years later in the spring. Years/semesters off during college that delay graduation and thus commissioning are often hard to get with ROTC barring medical or hardship stuff (severe illness/injury, family member death, other trauma) from what I’ve seen with fellow mids and cadets at my Alma Mater. NROTC didn’t allow any of my classmates to take a gap semester/year for COVID either as we had already started college

If she’s doing a gap year before starting college, could she apply for the ROTC scholarship during that vice senior year of high school? Then it would look like to the Army, she’d be starting her college and ROTC journey the next fall, instead of taking a year off after winning the scholarship

I know of a couple NROTC mids that took a gap year BEFORE college during the COVID era, but I think they either applied for the scholarship during that gap year (instead of during high school) or had to reapply for the scholarship even if they had won it senior year.

AROTC may have different rules, but NROTC was very strict on the max 4 years/8 semesters at school in my experience with no gaps allowed except for very extenuating circumstances. We had to do counseling with our advisors multiple times each semester to show we were still on track to graduate in 4 years with some sort of Bachelor’s degree

 

[EDelahanty]

Too much info.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

We have hired an ROTC consultant through LTC Kirkland's company to help us with our daughter's AROTC application - we had our first meeting today and really liked him - he just retired after a very long army career, most recently as the ROO at Vanderbilt, LTC Bautch.

My daughter is a rising senior planning to apply for AROTC scholarship and will most likely do Chinese Flagship at Indiana, ASU or Ole Miss. She is already an advanced low Mandarin speaker and plans to use her capstone year to study at DLI. Her plan A is to apply for and win the academic year NSLI-Y scholarship (she studied in Taiwan for 6 weeks last summer on a NSLI-Y scholarship and liked it so much she wants to do the academic year program) as a gap year. Funding for that program is still up in the air due to Trump's slash and burn although cultural exchange/language programs - and especially ones for critical languages - tend to have good bipartisan support.

When we explained this situation to LTC Bautch he said a deferment would be possible and he had a student who deferred both the university and the AROTC scholarship to study in Taiwan for a year and came back to his AROTC scholarship waiting for him. I had not heard this was possible before? Has anyone here navigated a deferment? LTC Bautch said they are case by case basis but for something like critical language study he thought it would likely be approved.

Given her concurrent interests to train as an officer and continue to advance her proficiency in Mandarin through the NSLI-Y program, why not look into multiple rounds of the NSLI-Y virtual or more summer programs vs the full academic year? You'll have summer obligations with AROTC that you can work around, and unlike Navy it's not every summer between HS graduation and commissioning for those on scholarship or for those assigned - here is an official link outlining some of those opportunities - the big one being described here.

If the goal is to get several months of immersed language advancement through this program, maybe that would be a compromise?

To your original question, no, the direct answer from the Lt. Col RET you shared is that this is a case by case basis and no guarantee, so under the bird-in-hand doctrine, fyi were this one of my children I would likely pursue the compromise path above and in a sense, do "both" and lock in the scholarship and use it and advance her mandarin proficiency, if awarded - but, "you do you".

Zhù nǐ hǎo yùn, gǎnxiè nǐ yǒu xìngqù wèi wǒmen fúwù (Good luck, and thank you for your interest to serve).

 

[cb7893]

She is already an advanced low Mandarin speaker and plans to use her capstone year to study at DLI.

Does DLI have a program for students who are neither military nor government employees?

Her plan A is to apply for and win the academic year NSLI-Y scholarship (she studied in Taiwan for 6 weeks last summer on a NSLI-Y scholarship and liked it so much she wants to do the academic year program) as a gap year.

The full year NSLI-Y scholarship is extremely competitive. DS applied for the gap year NSLI-Y scholarship, willing to go virtually anywhere. He was unsuccessful, which came as a huge surprise. We think possible reasons were his age, demographics of the applicant pool, and he had already done a full year Rotary Exchange in Brazil as a HS junior. You should check with your local Rotary Club. IMHO, the Rotary Exchange program is the gold standard.

Rotary Youth Exchange

www.rotary.org

DS ended up doing a gap year in Taiwan on a Rotary Exchange. It was an excellent experience and we couldn't recommend it more. He knew no Mandarin at the time. We did find a Mandarin tutor who spent 10-15 hours with him to get him started. He lived with a family in which no English was spoken and was enrolled in a school where only Mandarin was used.

One aspect of the Rotary Exchange which I feel is most important is that the exchanges are between local clubs. Applicants are not thrown into a massive pool and meted out to various countries. Each club vets its own candidates and has separate relationships with other clubs around the world that do the same. There is a history and individual accountability for the success of the exchange.

If she takes the @Herman_Snerd approach, there is a summer program, Project Go, specifically designed for ROTC cadets/mids

Homepage | Project GO

www.rotcprojectgo.org

My son did this after his sophomore year, studying Russian in Kyiv.

When we explained this situation to LTC Bautch he said a deferment would be possible and he had a student who deferred both the university and the AROTC scholarship to study in Taiwan for a year and came back to his AROTC scholarship waiting for him. I had not heard this was possible before? Has anyone here navigated a deferment? LTC Bautch said they are case by case basis but for something like critical language study he thought it would likely be approved.

DS attended a Big 10 State U on an AROTC scholarship. The school deferred his admission and their scholarship without question. Unbeknownst to us, he applied for the AROTC Scholarship while in Taiwan. I vaguely remember a call from the recruitment officer at the schools ROTC unit who called and remarked that the school really wanted him to attend. This was almost 15 years ago, so proceed with caution. The environment is much different and 4 yr ROTC scholarships are much more competitive.

The last thing I'll say is to give your DD some advice. If her passion is Mandarin or languages in general, then go for it. If all her plans work out and she does the gap year in Taiwan and gets the AROTC scholarship to the school of her choice that is great. However, she should not expect the Army to care when it comes time to being assigned a branch or when she shows up at her first duty station. ROTC is nurturing future Army Officers, not linguists and diplomats. Once she commissions, she will hit the ground running in a leadership role which she spent the previous four years preparing for.

One of the beauties of our immigrant nation is that it has millions of native speakers of languages other than English and many of them are deployed throughout the military in both the enlisted and officer ranks. As good as her Mandarin may be--it will turn Chinese heads when they hear her speak--her proficiency will likely never equal that of the kid who grew up speaking, reading and writing Mandarin.

This is not to suggest that she cannot use her Mandarin skills as an Army officer, but rather she will need to prove herself as an Army Officer first. She should continue to nurture her language skills. They serve as a differentiator within her cohort. One never knows when they will be called upon. This was exactly my DS's experience. He calling card was his technical skill set, communications. His language skills were an accoutrement.

I would suggest that your DD use the forum's search bar using keywords: branch, intel, foreign language. Also ask LTC Bautch about branching (they use a much different calculus than it 10 years ago) and how she might use her language skills in her Army career.

Wish her the best of luck!

 

[BlewSkies81]

Given her concurrent interests to train as an officer and continue to advance her proficiency in Mandarin through the NSLI-Y program, why not look into multiple rounds of the NSLI-Y virtual or more summer programs vs the full academic year? You'll have summer obligations with AROTC that you can work around, and unlike Navy it's not every summer between HS graduation and commissioning for those on scholarship or for those assigned - here is an official link outlining some of those opportunities - the big one being described here.

If the goal is to get several months of immersed language advancement through this program, maybe that would be a compromise?

To your original question, no, the direct answer from the Lt. Col RET you shared is that this is a case by case basis and no guarantee, so under the bird-in-hand doctrine, fyi were this one of my children I would likely pursue the compromise path above and in a sense, do "both" and lock in the scholarship and use it and advance her mandarin proficiency, if awarded - but, "you do you".

Zhù nǐ hǎo yùn, gǎnxiè nǐ yǒu xìngqù wèi wǒmen fúwù (Good luck, and thank you for your interest to serve).

Once you do the summer program you are no longer able to compete for another summer scholarship. Often, students who completed the summer program will apply for AY. If she doesn't get the AY she would just go straight to uni/ROTC.

 

[BlewSkies81]

Does DLI have a program for students who are neither military nor government employees?

The full year NSLI-Y scholarship is extremely competitive. DS applied for the gap year NSLI-Y scholarship, willing to go virtually anywhere. He was unsuccessful, which came as a huge surprise. We think possible reasons were his age, demographics of the applicant pool, and he had already done a full year Rotary Exchange in Brazil as a HS junior. You should check with your local Rotary Club. IMHO, the Rotary Exchange program is the gold standard.

Rotary Youth Exchange

www.rotary.org

DS ended up doing a gap year in Taiwan on a Rotary Exchange. It was an excellent experience and we couldn't recommend it more. He knew no Mandarin at the time. We did find a Mandarin tutor who spent 10-15 hours with him to get him started. He lived with a family in which no English was spoken and was enrolled in a school where only Mandarin was used.

One aspect of the Rotary Exchange which I feel is most important is that the exchanges are between local clubs. Applicants are not thrown into a massive pool and meted out to various countries. Each club vets its own candidates and has separate relationships with other clubs around the world that do the same. There is a history and individual accountability for the success of the exchange.

If she takes the @Herman_Snerd approach, there is a summer program, Project Go, specifically designed for ROTC cadets/mids

Homepage | Project GO

www.rotcprojectgo.org

My son did this after his sophomore year, studying Russian in Kyiv.


DS attended a Big 10 State U on an AROTC scholarship. The school deferred his admission and their scholarship without question. Unbeknownst to us, he applied for the AROTC Scholarship while in Taiwan. I vaguely remember a call from the recruitment officer at the schools ROTC unit who called and remarked that the school really wanted him to attend. This was almost 15 years ago, so proceed with caution. The environment is much different and 4 yr ROTC scholarships are much more competitive.

The last thing I'll say is to give your DD some advice. If her passion is Mandarin or languages in general, then go for it. If all her plans work out and she does the gap year in Taiwan and gets the AROTC scholarship to the school of her choice that is great. However, she should not expect the Army to care when it comes time to being assigned a branch or when she shows up at her first duty station. ROTC is nurturing future Army Officers, not linguists and diplomats. Once she commissions, she will hit the ground running in a leadership role which she spent the previous four years preparing for.

One of the beauties of our immigrant nation is that it has millions of native speakers of languages other than English and many of them are deployed throughout the military in both the enlisted and officer ranks. As good as her Mandarin may be--it will turn Chinese heads when they hear her speak--her proficiency will likely never equal that of the kid who grew up speaking, reading and writing Mandarin.

This is not to suggest that she cannot use her Mandarin skills as an Army officer, but rather she will need to prove herself as an Army Officer first. She should continue to nurture her language skills. They serve as a differentiator within her cohort. One never knows when they will be called upon. This was exactly my DS's experience. He calling card was his technical skill set, communications. His language skills were an accoutrement.

I would suggest that your DD use the forum's search bar using keywords: branch, intel, foreign language. Also ask LTC Bautch about branching (they use a much different calculus than it 10 years ago) and how she might use her language skills in her Army career.

Wish her the best of luck!

She would only go to DLI for her capstone year if she was AROTC. Otherwise the capstone year is intensive language study in Taiwan.

Her summer NSLI-Y she achieved advanced low proficiency. Successfully completing the summer program does make you more competitive for AY or so she has been told. But, yes, this is extremely competitive which is why she is going ahead and applying for ARTOC this year.

Plan A: NSLI-Y academic year, win ARTOC scholarship and defer uni/AROTC
Plan B: NSLI-Y academic year, don't win ARTOC or win and they don't allow her to defer, re-apply next summer
Plan C: don't win NSLI-Y, win ARTOC scholarship - enroll in Chinese Flagship

All of her plans (NSLI-Y, Chinese Flagship & ARTOC) are dependent on DoD funding and winning scholarships - so as you see there are many balls in the air! I've been told that bc Chinese is a critical language ARTOC would be more likely to defer her scholarship. DLI right out of college and freshly commissioned is ONLY a Chinese Flagship/ROTC deal. She does know that she may not get to use her language and that being an officer comes first.

Also, one of the BIG reasons she is applying for ARTOC and not the others is because she has the option to do 8 years reserve duty and use her language skills immediately in gov service. This gives her time/options where she isn't locked into 4 years active duty.

Thanks for your advice!

 

[Ivy22]

Is DLI even open to ROTC cadets and mids? It might not be, I would check on that for sure. I thought it was something people do later in their careers for their jobs (like FAO) as O-3 or above. Also enlisted translators.

As others have mentioned here, ROTC has a summer opportunity for foreign language study called Project GO. I've known several people to do this over the years, and they really enjoyed the experience. Many critical languages offered through this program.

 

[BlewSkies81]

DLI runs a specific capstone immersion program for Chinese Flagship students. I was wrong that it's open only to ROTC cadets. I am not sure, however, if ARTOC cadets go to DLI first as capstone students and then commission after that year is complete? Or if they do their 4 years undergrad, commission and then do DLI or year abroad? I guess thinking about it, it would make sense that they would complete capstone first and then commission?

Chinese Flagship Capstone Program Graduates | Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center

[caption id="attachment_31370" align="alignleft" width="300"] The five students of the Chinese Flagship Domestic Immersion Capstone Program celebrate their graduation from the Defense Language Institute Foreign Language…

www.dliflc.edu

 

[BlewSkies81]

I actually read a bit more and it appears students do this capstone year PRIOR to graduation so she wouldn't be a commissioned officer yet. It's possible reserve duty will be an attractive option bc these Chinese Flagship/DLI grads have gov agencies banging down their doors for jobs.

 

[Ivy22]

She’d have to make sure she can meet all her AROTC in 6 semesters then if she’s to take a whole year off from that before graduation. Might require doubling up on AROTC classes for a couple of semesters beforehand if her unit lets her

 

[BlewSkies81]

She’d have to make sure she can meet all her AROTC in 6 semesters then if she’s to take a whole year off from that before graduation. Might require doubling up on AROTC classes for a couple of semesters beforehand if her unit lets her

No, the Chinese Flagship is a 5 year program. ARTOC pays for the 3 or 4 year tuition and they also pay for the capstone year DLI/abroad. It's a relatively new program but ROTC language students at flagships play by a whole different set of rules. She'll do 8 semesters with Chinese as her major and then do a 5th capstone year (paid by ROTC, civilian students apply for and receive highest consideration for Boren to pay for their capstone year) and then she would commission.

The capstone year is not part of the ROTC scholarship. It's a totally separate program paid for by DoD. I'm not sure what bucket of money it comes from but the cadet is not responsible for it and ROTC allows a delay of commission bc it's part of the 5 year Chinese Flagship program.

 

[Ivy22]

No, the Chinese Flagship is a 5 year program. ARTOC pays for the 3 or 4 year tuition and they also pay for the capstone year DLI/abroad. It's a relatively new program but ROTC language students at flagships play by a whole different set of rules. She'll do 8 semesters with Chinese as her major and then do a 5th capstone year (paid by ROTC, civilian students apply for and receive highest consideration for Boren to pay for their capstone year) and then she would commission.

The capstone year is not part of the ROTC scholarship. It's a totally separate program paid for by DoD. I'm not sure what bucket of money it comes from but the cadet is not responsible for it and ROTC allows a delay of commission bc it's part of the 5 year Chinese Flagship program.

That makes more sense!

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Another language enrichment option is Middlebury’s Summer Language Schools (https://www.middlebury.edu/language-schools//languages/chinese). A friend trained extensively with their tutors there to perfect his accent—so well that locals couldn’t tell he wasn’t native. This helped him move across borders more smoothly and navigate negotiations while working for the CIA in the Middle East. oops, did I say "CIA"? I meant "State Department - yeah, he worked for the, um, state department. (ifkyk).