Attention to details....

Terrific article, @AROTC-dad. Passed it on to DD, who’s seriously considering USMC and is preparing to attend Leatherneck. Her name is not obviously male or female — may require attention to detail when emailing her.
 
Very good article and refreshing in this day of canceling pronouns. I’ve called a ma’am a sir before and it is embarrassing. I have a neighbor, captain, USMC, who wears her hair very short and atypically styled. Her garage is filled with workout gear to include a squat rack and treadmill. I’ve worked with female Marines and Corpsmen who from the front with a tight sleeve roll and proper fitting cover and just the right hair style are indistinguishable from a male. The author recommends taking a few seconds to take in the features of others but that can get us in trouble in today’s environment.

Also, Marines are required to address officers as sir or ma’am and not their rank.
 
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When I turned 18, many, many (inserts as many "manys" as you want here), I was attending an all girls, Catholic boarding school. Lo and behold one day there was a letter from the US Army (maybe Armed Forces, I don't remember) reminding me to sign up for the draft, now that I was 18. I have a gender neutral name, which is actually quite trendy now, but a very uncommon first name at the time. My parents and I laughed, thinking they just looked at the name and assumed, so we ignored it. The letters kept coming, as did the intensity of the requests. Finally, the headmistress of my school, Sister Claire, took me down to the post office. We showed, with certainty, that I was the person on the letter, but was not a male and therefore didn't have to sign up for the draft. So, even the Armed Forces miss details every now and then.

Why the post office? I have no idea, but that is where we were directed to go. Maybe that was where one signed up for the draft?
 
Devil Doc said:
Very good article and refreshing in this day of canceling pronouns. I’ve called a ma’am a sir before and it is embarrassing. I have a neighbor, captain, USMC, who wears her hair very short and atypically styled. Her garage is filled with workout gear to include a squat rack and treadmill. I’ve worked with female Marines and Corpsmen who from the front with a tight sleeve roll and proper fitting cover and just the right hair style are indistinguishable from a male. The author recommends taking a few seconds to take in the features of others but that can get us in trouble in today’s environment.

Also, Marines are required to address officers as sir or ma’am and not their rank.
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Calling a person by their rank can also be confusing between services. Good luck getting the vast majority in the Army to recognize your Navy rank. Throw in the ever changing ACUs, BDUs or whatever we call the current iteration of camouflage and you have the added confusion of trying to figure out if that’s a Marine or a Navy officer. Wait... do I say lieutenant or captain? Captain or colonel??? Or trying to distinguish between a WO and a 1LT... or is it LTjg?
DW is petite enough that most do not confuse her with a male but of all the things she has to worry about someone calling her “sir” is not one of them. I mean it happens. Oh well.
Now the time that she was a 2LT in Korea coming back from PT and her brigade commander stopped her by saying “Hey little girl, what are you doing here?” was embarrassing. When DW pointed out that she was one of his LTs he turned bright red and apologized, he thought she was someone’s daughter and dependents weren’t suppose to be there at the time without permission. In his defense DW looked much younger than she was (still does), especially after PT when her face was flushed.
As the BDE CO walked away DW heard the sergeant major giving him a hard time. “Hey little girl??? Cmon sir. I knew it was one of the LTs.”
 
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At this point, I think it’s more embarrassing for the poor soldier who calls me “sir” more than me. At least they tried and I’m not having to make the correction (or let my NCOs make the correction which generally works out worse for the offender) for not greeting which is a pet peeve. Giving it a second lets it generally sort itself out to the mortification of the offending individual.
 
OtB said:
Just a thought… How would a “sir” react to being called a “ma’am”?
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One would hope with aplomb and grace.

When I was a CO (and I am a woman), this happened to my male XO a couple of times, because people had become accustomed to saying “ma’am” around me. He would just smile and wait for the self-correction.
 
Casey said:
At this point, I think it’s more embarrassing for the poor soldier who calls me “sir” more than me. At least they tried and I’m not having to make the correction (or let my NCOs make the correction which generally works out worse for the offender) for not greeting which is a pet peeve. Giving it a second lets it generally sort itself out to the mortification of the offending individual.
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I went months, numerous replies and pm’s before realizing that @Casey was a chick (kidding) and not a dude. She was most gracious about the whole thing...an Officer and a Lady (not kidding).
 
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The majority of teachers are women and I’ve been called Mr. Smith (not my real name) on occasion by students . They usually correct themselves but it’s no big deal either way. What irks me is when they don’t remember my name or address me as a different teacher. I will come back sarcastically, Why yes Debra, (not her real name) which of course makes a teenage girl all indignant.
 
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I am not in the minority so I probably will be admonished for a lack of sensitivity but... seriously? This just isn't a big deal - or shouldn't be. I have seen it happen and been guilty of the crime myself but it ALWAYS is resolved immediately and the offender is much more upset than the female officer should be.

Statements in the article like "During my time in uniform, I wasn’t the one Marines expected to see as the officer because I’m a woman. Because I’m not a sir." and "... we could build a culture of greater respect where people are observed and respected for who they are instead of who we expect them to be." indicate an attitude in need of adjustment. It is a big leap to move from an incorrect greeting to the conclusion that Marines only expect officers to be male.

I do think the comments about email are appropriate and good suggestions are provided. I would encourage that commands incorporate that advice into training and standards.
 
USMCGrunt said:
I am not in the minority so I probably will be admonished for a lack of sensitivity but... seriously? This just isn't a big deal - or shouldn't be. I have seen it happen and been guilty of the crime myself but it ALWAYS is resolved immediately and the offender is much more upset than the female officer should be.

Statements in the article like "During my time in uniform, I wasn’t the one Marines expected to see as the officer because I’m a woman. Because I’m not a sir." and "... we could build a culture of greater respect where people are observed and respected for who they are instead of who we expect them to be." indicate an attitude in need of adjustment. It is a big leap to move from an incorrect greeting to the conclusion that Marines only expect officers to be male.

I do think the comments about email are appropriate and good suggestions are provided. I would encourage that commands incorporate that advice into training and standards.
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Thank you for posting your comment. I agree.

It is good advice for everyone to pay attention to detail. However, that is the only positive thing I can say about this article.

As a woman who works in a male-dominated field, my impression of the author is that she is petty and overly self-absorbed. She comes across as a snob from the Academy. In my job, I often get addressed by the wrong title because of my gender. I have never found it to be malicious or discriminatory, but rather an honest mistake by well-meaning people. This has happened for decades since I started working in my profession. If there is a reason that my actual title needs be corrected in order for the work to be done properly, then I will politely inform the person. Otherwise, I have found the best reaction is to be humble, let it slide, and forget about it.

Based on the title and the quotes noted above, it doesn’t seem like the author’s primary concern is about Marines’ combat readiness. Rather she is offended by what she perceives as lack of respect. However, one does not gain respect by demanding it. Respect is earned by doing excellent work with exemplary character. If you do your job well, then people will find out who you are and what titles you possess without you having to throw it in their faces.

If the author’s aim is to train the Marines under her authority, then she should work hard to teach them the lessons that are required, including paying attention to detail. However, writing an article like this seems inappropriate for a person who is in a leadership position. I hope the young women reading this thread will not act in the same way.
 
USMCGrunt said:
I am not in the minority so I probably will be admonished for a lack of sensitivity but... seriously? This just isn't a big deal - or shouldn't be. I have seen it happen and been guilty of the crime myself but it ALWAYS is resolved immediately and the offender is much more upset than the female officer should be.

Statements in the article like "During my time in uniform, I wasn’t the one Marines expected to see as the officer because I’m a woman. Because I’m not a sir." and "... we could build a culture of greater respect where people are observed and respected for who they are instead of who we expect them to be." indicate an attitude in need of adjustment. It is a big leap to move from an incorrect greeting to the conclusion that Marines only expect officers to be male.

I do think the comments about email are appropriate and good suggestions are provided. I would encourage that commands incorporate that advice into training and standards.
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It isn't be a big deal, but over time the frustration adds up. I'm in a position where I am almost without exception the only woman in the room, and this has the case throughout my Marine Corps career. For many young Marines, both enlisted and officer, I am the first female they have had to work for. As a result, I have to make corrections to people all the time for inadvertently calling me "sir" whether in person or in an email (especially annoying since I have a very obviously female first name 🤦‍♀️). Normally the Marine is horrified and corrects themselves before I can even say something. I assume its an honest mistake and treat it as so.
It's similar to when I don't get saluted walking around a base that doesn't generally have many aviators and I'm in a flight suit (happens all the time at 29 Palms). The reason is they probably don't see many pilots, not that they are being willfully disrespectful.

I don't think the author "doesn't care about her Marines' combat readiness" @Wahoo Fan (what a ridiculous statement) or has a bad attitude. The article is a simple observation, and from my anecdotal experience there are plenty of Marines for whom there just isn't an overlap between the categories of "Officers" and "Women," possibly because there are so few female officers that its' very possible to never interact with one in certain MOSs. Is it so much to ask that Marines take the extra half second to verify they have the correct greeting?
It's more difficult to tell the difference between the different senior enlisted ranks in cammies than it is to tell the difference between a man and a woman, but God forbid a LCpl call a 1stSgt a MSgt...
 
Hurricane12 said:
It isn't be a big deal, but over time the frustration adds up. I'm in a position where I am almost without exception the only woman in the room, and this has the case throughout my Marine Corps career. For many young Marines, both enlisted and officer, I am the first female they have had to work for. As a result, I have to make corrections to people all the time for inadvertently calling me "sir" whether in person or in an email (especially annoying since I have a very obviously female first name 🤦‍♀️). Normally the Marine is horrified and corrects themselves before I can even say something. I assume its an honest mistake and treat it as so.
It's similar to when I don't get saluted walking around a base that doesn't generally have many aviators and I'm in a flight suit (happens all the time at 29 Palms). The reason is they probably don't see many pilots, not that they are being willfully disrespectful.

I don't think the author "doesn't care about her Marines' combat readiness" @Wahoo Fan (what a ridiculous statement) or has a bad attitude. The article is a simple observation, and from my anecdotal experience there are plenty of Marines for whom there just isn't an overlap between the categories of "Officers" and "Women," possibly because there are so few female officers that its' very possible to never interact with one in certain MOSs. Is it so much to ask that Marines take the extra half second to verify they have the correct greeting?
It's more difficult to tell the difference between the different senior enlisted ranks in cammies than it is to tell the difference between a man and a woman, but God forbid a LCpl call a 1stSgt a MSgt...
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Great post, and as a dad of a daughter in AFROTC, I appreciate the comments. My oldest, my son, went through AFROTC and into his AF career with no gender issues. My daughter has gone through 4 years of AFROTC at a very selective school (is the cadet wing commander) and I've seen a different perspective as respects gender. She's been told she's only at the school because she's a girl. She's been knocked for leadership because she wasn't loud like the male AFROTC counterparts.
One positive is that she was one of a handful of cadets flown to a Women in Aviation convention where the military set up discussions with female AD pilots. That really helped her in considering being a pilot and I was glad to see this opportunity being enabled by ROTC.
As respects the thought that these gender greetings were harmless, I've seen enough posts around the web by AD and retired military stating they don't think women should be in the military, a pilot, in combat, etc. I'm guessing their gender confusion is not harmless or innocent.
And if an AD can be castigated for not recognizing rank, then why not for gender?
The services were built around men (and white men at that). But culture and society change and these changes need to be addressed. We're seeing evals being without names and photos. The services' songs are changed to acknowledge women's contributions. I think the article and your post attest to this. Women may still be in the minority, but females in the military are no longer uncommon.
As the spouse of a retired female AF officer, don't get me started on Mil Spouse FB pages where women start posts with "Hi Girls, I need some advice!" or spouse gifts that are wrapped in pink and have something to do with manicures - I always thought a good bottle of scotch could be enjoyed by both genders) :).
 
It comes down to perspective. We don’t know how the woman who wrote that article has been treated.

Occasionally you see comments about women or minorities getting in because they are women or minorities, which immediately bothers me because they don’t know the persons credentials.

I tend to read each woman’s perspective on the matter, without dismissing anything they say.

Excellent discussion.
 
A1Janitor said:
It comes down to perspective. We don’t know how the woman who wrote that article has been treated.

Occasionally you see comments about women or minorities getting in because they are women or minorities, which immediately bothers me because they don’t know the persons credentials.

I tend to read each woman’s perspective on the matter, without dismissing anything they say.

Excellent discussion.
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Well stated.
 
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