boys vs. girls?

[navy2022VA]

Out of curiosity, do girls and boys compete equally for admission? Or do girls compete against girls and boys compete against boys?

 

[Kierkegaard]

Everyone competes against each other, and there is no gender quota.

 

[navy2022VA]

Everyone competes against each other, and there is no gender quota.

Thanks!

 

[0302grnt]

There are no quotas.
There are more qualified applicants than places in a class.
Some qualified applicants will not receive appointments.
Every applicant who receives an appointment will be fully qualified.
It is universally accepted that the United States armed forces are stronger when their respective officer corps are comprised of leaders of all the ethnicities and genders that make up the enlisted ranks; therefore, when building an officer corps, the United States sets goals ( but not quotas) to shape each class at the service academies (and ROTC and OCS).
There are legal requirements for geographic diversity of the service academy classes, as well.
As each applicant "competes" for an appointment, it would be an error to assume that the competitive factors are limited to academics, physical fitness and leadership positions held in high school.
As part of the "competition" to select members of a class, the service academies will weigh geography, gender and ethnicity to the extend each believes it must in order to achieve its goals.
Accordingly, it is not completely accurate to state that each applicant competes against every other applicant equally. (The best example is that applicants within a MOC slate compete with each other, but not with applicants in another MOC's district - unless and until any of those applicants are placed in the national pool.
Similarly, there can arise circumstances where individual applicant from a category that meets one of the service academy's "class shaping" goals is compared to other applicants who meet the same goal.
There is no limit on the number of appointment of either gender.
There is political pressure to increase the number of women at the service academies. Whether the service academies are successfully insulated from that pressure by the DOD, I do not know.

 

[navy2022VA]

There are no quotas.
There are more qualified applicants than places in a class.
Some qualified applicants will not receive appointments.
Every applicant who receives an appointment will be fully qualified.
It is universally accepted that the United States armed forces are stronger when their respective officer corps are comprised of leaders of all the ethnicities and genders that make up the enlisted ranks; therefore, when building an officer corps, the United States sets goals ( but not quotas) to shape each class at the service academies (and ROTC and OCS).
There are legal requirements for geographic diversity of the service academy classes, as well.
As each applicant "competes" for an appointment, it would be an error to assume that the competitive factors are limited to academics, physical fitness and leadership positions held in high school.
As part of the "competition" to select members of a class, the service academies will weigh geography, gender and ethnicity to the extend each believes it must in order to achieve its goals.
Accordingly, it is not completely accurate to state that each applicant competes against every other applicant equally. (The best example is that applicants within a MOC slate compete with each other, but not with applicants in another MOC's district - unless and until any of those applicants are placed in the national pool.
Similarly, there can arise circumstances where individual applicant from a category that meets one of the service academy's "class shaping" goals is compared to other applicants who meet the same goal.
There is no limit on the number of appointment of either gender.
There is political pressure to increase the number of women at the service academies. Whether the service academies are successfully insulated from that pressure by the DOD, I do not know.

Thanks for all this info! Super helpful.

 

[Lazyboy]

Compared to highly selective private universities, where I feel my son’s chances are harder because he’s a blue eyed blonde haired suburbanite.

 

[navy2022VA]

Compared to highly selective private universities, where I feel my son’s chances are harder because he’s a blue eyed blonde haired suburbanite.

No worries! The only people I know personally who have been admitted to USNA so far are blonde haired, blue eyed guys

 

[Lazyboy]

They look extra dashing in their white uniforms.

 

[CrewDad]

My understanding is that although there is no published data on quota, SAs seek to mirror the national distribution breakdown of ethnic mix of our country. Like all colleges, I believe SAs maybe under stronger pressure to admit more qualified female candidates while the ratio is still significantly less female cadets at the SAs.

This is my speculation and does not represent the official view of the SAs. The goal to meet the national racial mix gender mix standard is there and this means that today SAs would like to admit more black inner city applicants. That’s why there is URM category. SAs do not have enough black students representing their classes relative to national ratio. I heard this time and time again from Admissions at all colleges. But like at most highly selective colleges we, qualified Asian male applying to SAs face higher competition or unstated quota entering SAs due to high quality and high volume of Asian applicants. Like it or not there seems to be unstated quota for all category of applicants including gender. This is the reality and so everyone has to put the best foot forward and do the best you can.

The comment I saw a candidate on being blonde and blue eyes being at a disadvantaged is unfounded. In fact that does not add anything to the Admissions equation, especially when Admissions does not ask the color of your eyes and does not ask the color of your hair. In fact there are thousands of our kids at the SAs with blond hair and blue eyes.

 

[Lazyboy]

The comment I saw a candidate on being blonde and blue eyes being at a disadvantaged is unfounded. In fact that does not add anything to the Admissions equation, especially when Admissions does not ask the color of your eyes and does not ask the color of your hair. In fact there are thousands of our kids at the SAs with blond hair and blue eyes.

The comment was pertaining to private elite colleges. All achievements being equal, it seems like some schools give credit to diversity or hardship. Giving preference to genetics, which no one has control of, is discriminatory. And I’m not going to apologize for working hard to provide for my family, ie; having a lack of hardships.

 

[CrewDad]

I know your sentiment. And it seems unfair. Likewise, you don’t know if there was another kid who was better qualified than yours. There’s nothing you can do about the practice of URM and the practice of turning away over qualified applicants to any school admissions and at any jobs people apply for positions. The system is not perfect and we shouldn’t expect it to be. We just have to do the best we can and know that you did everything possible. We also have to accept that for those who are admitted they must also deserve to be there. Wishing your DS DD well.

 

[Skipper07]

The most important thing: while the academy may have goals to admit more women or midshipmen of various ethnicities, these people ARE NOT chosen solely for said qualities and they ARE competititive to begin with. EVERYONE who is appointed is qualified.

This is what I have gathered from these forums and from local admissions meetings. I am not a USNA rep in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Kierkegaard]

The most important thing: while the academy may have goals to admit more women or midshipmen of various ethnicities, these people ARE NOT chosen solely for said qualities and they ARE competititive to begin with. EVERYONE who is appointed is qualified.

This is what I have gathered from these forums and from local admissions meetings. I am not a USNA rep in any way, shape, or form.

Yes and no. Every direct appointee must be found academically qualified, but those who are not can still gain entrance to the Academy via prep school if they're highly desired for athletic or diversity purposes.

 

[Lazyboy]

Don’t get me wrong, whether my DS received an appointment or not, I believe every plebe has earned the right to be there.

 

[Rescue#1]

FWIW...I heard the women’s success rate at USNA is off the charts. Only reason there are not more in the ranks is not enough apply.

 

[USMA 1994]

The most important thing: while the academy may have goals to admit more women or midshipmen of various ethnicities, these people ARE NOT chosen solely for said qualities and they ARE competititive to begin with. EVERYONE who is appointed is qualified.

This is what I have gathered from these forums and from local admissions meetings. I am not a USNA rep in any way, shape, or form.

Yes and no. Every direct appointee must be found academically qualified, but those who are not can still gain entrance to the Academy via prep school if they're highly desired for athletic or diversity purposes.

This is true but they have to meet the minimum qualifications after the year of prep school to be admitted.

 

[usna1985]

This is true but they have to meet the minimum qualifications after the year of prep school to be admitted.

Not sure what you mean by this. In order to be appointed, a NAPSter or Foundation student must: (1) successfully complete the program (i.e., academically); (2) remain qualified medically; (3) pass the PRT (not the CFA); and (4) still want to attend USNA. And, of course, not do something stupid like drugs.

 

[USMA 1994]

This is true but they have to meet the minimum qualifications after the year of prep school to be admitted.

Not sure what you mean by this. In order to be appointed, a NAPSter or Foundation student must: (1) successfully complete the program (i.e., academically); (2) remain qualified medically; (3) pass the PRT (not the CFA); and (4) still want to attend USNA. And, of course, not do something stupid like drugs.

We are saying the same thing. The candidate needs to do a little more than attend the prep school. They must successfully complete prep school and then they become Academically Qualified.

 

[THParent]

They let all the girls go first, at I-Day.

That's what I heard, anyway.

 

[StPaulDad]

There are far more qualified candidates than spots, so they have to come up with some criteria to choose from among the qualified. If one kid had better grades but some other guy was stronger or more athletic would you call it fair? How much smarter or stronger would make it feel OK? How hard do you want to push when it's numbers (athletic or academic) against "demonstrated leadership"? Then add regional, gender, race, religious and any other demographic you want and it takes a hard person to not have some sympathy for what SA Admissions folks are up against.

In the end the armed forces have decided that it's important to have officer demographics reflect those of the enlisted people they lead. That sounds like a good idea in the abstract, but at a level of any specific parent or applicant it feels awfully personal. There's no single good answer, as this is compromise.