Bruce Fleming saga cont.

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The same drivel over and over. I am surprised that the Capital Gazette gave him the microphone again. But it gets clicks and looks, and that is revenue.

I hope he can settle into his new role, find peace and comfort, stop the moaning and spatting, and do some good for once.
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He is an English professor.

Yes but he is not teaching. USNA had to take him back for the time being but has assigned him a non-teaching position. So I am curious what he ACTUALLY does. Remove staples? And if it’s research, just what does THAT mean.

My whole point is that anyone with an ounce of self-respect would not want that. Although I had no idea he has been there 33yrs. Wow.

I don’t think he is here because I don’t think he could keep quiet. He would show his true colors. And if he was a banned troll, he would have made another account. And would have shown himself again.
 
Keep in mind, this may be just a temporary situation. USNA didn't voluntarily let him come back; an Admin Law Judge for the Merit Systems Protection Board , which hears cases regarding federal employee terminations, overruled the Academy's termination a month or so ago. USNA is appealing the ruling.

I really haven't followed the matter closely, and don't know anything about the Merit Systems Protection Board (although I have always heard is is almost impossible to fire a federal employee), but as a general rule, ALJ's are often deferential to the Agency they serve. Now the appeal goes to a Federal Court. Fleming is claiming that USNA retaliated against him because he is outspoken; but I understand that there were a number of conduct issues as well (i.e. inappropriate photos). Being outspoken shouldn't give him a pass for being a jacka$$ or worse.

As I have said before, there is a place for critical discourse at the Service Academies -it should be encouraged. However, Fleming's means and methods are wrong, and his conduct is inexcusable. Hopefully, the federal judges will get it right.
 
I think it is sad that he criticizes USNA so, but he does still have the right to speak how he wishes. I think his criticism is detrimental and I wish he would leave or think of ways to improve what he sees as unfit and present them in a more professional manner, especially if he is a professor, but his opinion should still be respected, even if it is not helpful or of assistance in any way.
 
but his opinion should still be respected, even if it is not helpful or of assistance in any way.

I would politely disagree. I respect his right to have and to publish his opinion. The First Amendment provides for that. However, I don't have to respect his opinion, if it's baseless and useless.

As noted, IMO there are some valid points amidst the whining and drivel. It's just hard to find them.
 
Also, a persons ‘right’ to express and publish their opinion comes with consequences. Doesn’t mean a ‘right’ to have people agree with you.

My beef, and I only know what I’ve read, is the behavior. Speedos. Touching. Pics. Inappropriate behavior. I believe there are two separate issues here: free speech, and inappropriate/illegal behavior. One of them is not ok, and was the basis of his dismissal. As it should be as I read the stuff available regarding his case.

If a professor sent Speedo pics via email to my daughter, I would go ballistic. Pretty sure.
 
Also, a persons ‘right’ to express and publish their opinion comes with consequences. Doesn’t mean a ‘right’ to have people agree with you.

My beef, and I only know what I’ve read, is the behavior. Speedos. Touching. Pics. Inappropriate behavior. I believe there are two separate issues here: free speech, and inappropriate/illegal behavior. One of them is not ok, and was the basis of his dismissal. As it should be as I read the stuff available regarding his case.

If a professor sent Speedo pics via email to my daughter, I would go ballistic. Pretty sure.
About 1/10000 of 1% of the Adult Male population should ever be allowed to don a Speedo in public. For any reason. Ever. And that does apply to you too Greece and the province of Quebec.
 
Also, a persons ‘right’ to express and publish their opinion comes with consequences. Doesn’t mean a ‘right’ to have people agree with you.

My beef, and I only know what I’ve read, is the behavior. Speedos. Touching. Pics. Inappropriate behavior. I believe there are two separate issues here: free speech, and inappropriate/illegal behavior. One of them is not ok, and was the basis of his dismissal. As it should be as I read the stuff available regarding his case.

If a professor sent Speedo pics via email to my daughter, I would go ballistic. Pretty sure.
About 1/10000 of 1% of the Adult Male population should ever be allowed to don a Speedo in public. For any reason. Ever. And that does apply to you too Greece and the province of Quebec.
Reminds me of the Corona commercial where the gal blocks her view of the guy in the speedo with her bottle. I'm in complete agreement.
 
In the rest of the world a speedo is just called a “swimsuit”. I’m personally not a fan of the style, but let’s be clear that the taboo surrounding the speedo exists only in the US due to our archaically puritan culture.

By the way, the midshipman who vigorously pursued the charges against Fleming has publicly admitted that he had beef with him from the get-go, because he earned a C in the class but felt he deserved an A. That’s enough to make me question whether he was actually offended by the professor.

Having heard and read some anecdotes, I’d say he’s certainly an eccentric fellow who occasionally breaches the professional line by a little. I wonder how many times, if any, his bosses attempted to correct whatever they considered inappropriate. If he did display a pattern of inappropriate behavior and did not stop when told he went too far, then that is bad. It doesn’t look like that happened though. Also, with 30+ years at the Academy, I wonder why no one has attributed these things to him until the past year. Did his personality or teaching style change dramatically? I doubt it. Are college students nationwide way more sensitive and afraid of hearing ideas that they don’t like? Absolutely, and perhaps that’s a factor in all of this too. By most accounts he’s actually a very good teacher, and whether you agree with his writings on the Academy, none of the facts he reports are uncontroversial. However I do think he does a disservice to his own view by delivering it in such a pompous and cynical tone.
 
About 1/10000 of 1% of the Adult Male population should ever be allowed to don a Speedo in public. For any reason. Ever. And that does apply to you too Greece and the province of Quebec.

Hahahahahahahha @Greece and @Quebec hahahhahahahaa
 
In the rest of the world a speedo is just called a “swimsuit”. I’m personally not a fan of the style, but let’s be clear that the taboo surrounding the speedo exists only in the US due to our archaically puritan culture.

By the way, the midshipman who vigorously pursued the charges against Fleming has publicly admitted that he had beef with him from the get-go, because he earned a C in the class but felt he deserved an A. That’s enough to make me question whether he was actually offended by the professor.

Having heard and read some anecdotes, I’d say he’s certainly an eccentric fellow who occasionally breaches the professional line by a little. I wonder how many times, if any, his bosses attempted to correct whatever they considered inappropriate. If he did display a pattern of inappropriate behavior and did not stop when told he went too far, then that is bad. It doesn’t look like that happened though. Also, with 30+ years at the Academy, I wonder why no one has attributed these things to him until the past year. Did his personality or teaching style change dramatically? I doubt it. Are college students nationwide way more sensitive and afraid of hearing ideas that they don’t like? Absolutely, and perhaps that’s a factor in all of this too. By most accounts he’s actually a very good teacher, and whether you agree with his writings on the Academy, none of the facts he reports are uncontroversial. However I do think he does a disservice to his own view by delivering it in such a pompous and cynical tone.
I think I’ve forgotten too much History to be influenced by the implications of a Puritanical culture; just saying that most dudes in Speedos are straight up nasty on the eye. I’ll echo that shout out to Jim Palmer. He was getting it done in his Jockeys.
 
For those much younger or who were never into early movies (the only actor to have ever played all three comic book characters of Tarzan, Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers) this is Buster Crabbe, the 1932 Olympic Gold Medalist in the 400 meter freestyle...and I guarantee you, this dude would have looked every inch the part in a Speedo
after-winning-gold-in-the-400meter-freestyle-event-at-the-los-angeles-picture-id514912070
 
For those much younger or who were never into early movies (the only actor to have ever played all three comic book characters of Tarzan, Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers) this is Buster Crabbe, the 1932 Olympic Gold Medalist in the 400 meter freestyle...and I guarantee you, this dude would have looked every inch the part in a Speedo
after-winning-gold-in-the-400meter-freestyle-event-at-the-los-angeles-picture-id514912070
Good sign from the Universe that we should probably hop off this forum for a few minutes and get in the gym.
 
And then there is this from another USNA grad. Food for thought:

"USNA appears to have fueled, even encouraged this adverse scenario by ignoring, burying, stifling Fleming's findings and fumings. And frustrating him while tenuring him in the process. There is little doubt many/much of his observations and findings are more accurate and correct than the admins dare admit, perhaps notably about opaque, politicized admission policies that have been exacerbated by the mandate for "diversity" and the coincident buy-in to play major league football. And then Fleming and his fellow faculty brethren inherit these ill-equipped students who've been secreted onto the Yard.

In the course of these events and more, Fleming's morphed from perhaps a prototypical professorial pain to a determined, ever acting-out adversary of what he deems, rightly so perhaps, his employer's institutional hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty. A monster has been manufactured and an institution sullied and embarrassed. And a Brigade has been provided with a call to wonder about aspects of their alma mater that shouldn't matter. And creating a destructive picking of sides among Mid-pawns. A potential wedge. Sad scene, no winners. Maybe a classic case study for examining the disparity between command and leadership, failure to communicate. And assessment of the potential minefields just ahead"
 
And then there is this from another USNA grad. Food for thought:

"USNA appears to have fueled, even encouraged this adverse scenario by ignoring, burying, stifling Fleming's findings and fumings. And frustrating him while tenuring him in the process ...."

I am having a hard time with the 1st sentence, especially the "frustrating him while tenuring him in the process". So I am just going to let the rest of it go for now.

A lot of us carry some deep frustrations, and we find ways to contain all the mini-explosions in our heads, and channel in civil and positive ways. .... Why does anyone need all the Acting and Media attention?
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Btw -- I had a crazy thought several days ago that Fleming is some foreign adversarial puppet ... kind-of like all the FB election misinformation stuff ..... I know, it is a crazy thought.
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Based on anecdotal accounts, Fleming is/was a reportedly better than average prof. My guess is that he toed the line until he earned tenure. Now he has the freedom to speak out.

I think most alums have no issue with a current prof raising questions/concerns about the institution -- or at least we shouldn't. The rub is that Fleming seems to do this in a way that appears primarily intended to direct attention and publicity to himself without providing any constructive benefit to the institution that employs him.

The fact that we (and I obviously include myself) are talking about him just feeds the bear.
 
The rub is that Fleming seems to do this in a way that appears primarily intended to direct attention and publicity to himself without providing any constructive benefit to the institution that employs him.

+1
 
The rub is that Fleming seems to do this in a way that appears primarily intended to direct attention and publicity to himself without providing any constructive benefit to the institution that employs him.

There's a whole lot of that going around these days.
 
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