C4C considering leaving after BCT

Thank you to all who have offered to help. I knew you were an amazingly supportive group before I decided to post, and you've all confirmed it.

I have forwarded some contacts to my son, and we'll leave it at that for now and see what he decides.
 
FlyMom19, I think you've already gotten some really good contacts and advice. There's one other resource available to your son and that's his C3C coach. The coaches are their mentors and have recently finished their first year. They certainly still have a vivid understanding of what your son is going through.
 
He hasn't even started yet!

Self-doubt happens. I certainly had my fair share of moments where I asked, "Can I hack this?" Sometime the honest answer was, "I don't know..."
That is a rough realization, and it can go either way. The thing is, if he doesn't know, he needs to find out. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
I kept going because, in 15 years, I did not want to lay there in bed and and wonder at night, "I wonder if I could have graduated..."

BCT can be a kick in the junk, but it is there to set you up to learn. It isn't the same as 4 dig year, and 4 dig year isn't "the academy." The challenges change. Each year is different. I would be lying if I said, "it'll definitely get easier, after this." It doesn't. It just changes. First semester is a reality check for some. The academics are not the same as in high school. Things aren't spoon-fed. That can take some adjustment--but it is just that--an adjustment. It is not the end of the world. You adapt, and you overcome.

Some people realize they don't want to be an Air Force officer. That is OK. There are plenty of awesome jobs out there--brain surgeons, firefighters, Navy Seals, white-hat hackers, Fortune 500 executives, etc, etc. I just don't have the desire to pursue those. This is fine. It is important to decide what things do drive you. If serving in the AF is not what you are called to do, then by all means, leave. That would be the smart choice. Don't waste your time on something not right for you. BUT if you do feel that calling to service, you need to give it a chance. Put in the effort. Take the shot. If it is not meant to be, it won't...but if it is...don't you want to know?

I don't want to look back at my life and have that nagging, clawing question eat at me. "What if...?"
 
Oh my, this is sad to read, but it does happen; your DS is not alone! But he may feel alone, especially if he feels no one else is this <sad, lonely, scared, petrified> as I am now.

The beginning of the academic year scares a lot of 4*s - and for some, who have no fear at all, well, they may spend some time on acpro while they get "acclimated."

Please encourage your DS to stay at least the whole year, or at minimum the whole semester. If no other arguments work, remind him he took someone else's spot and owes it to that person. (I know, that's pretty awful, so that's why I suggest it only as a last resort)

Let your DS know that except for UPT, BCT was the most difficult part of my twins' 4 years at USAFA.
 
Christcorp said:
You need to chat with him and give him some facts. Then, when he has facts, he can make proper decisions.

Facts:
1. More than 50,000 cadets before him have made it. So take the word impossible and throw it away. It doesn't exist.
2. There is more than enough time to do everything, once you learn time management. And he will learn that.
3. BCT and the academy, are 2 totally different worlds. They are not the same thing. Do not make any decision based on his experience at BCT.
4. If he does find himself having issues academically, the academy has EI (extra Instruction) where his teachers will help him. They will find time to help.
5. Quitting after you have given it a real try, is fine. He hasn't even begun. So he hasn't even tried yet.

.
Click to expand...

I will just add a practical consideration as to if he leaves now, he proabably won't start a college until the spring. If so why not give the academic year a try and if things doesn't work out leave after the first semester, while applying to different colleges to start the spring semester.

Shouldn't bring an Army war story into an AFA discussion, but why. It was one of many bad days I had in Ranger school, nothing went right for my platoon, everybody was feeling bad, hungry, and tired. One of the instructors must sensed it and gave us a simple speech along the line of "Things are bad and some of you are thinking about quiting, don't. If you quit now, nothing is going to change. There will be no truck or helicopter picking you up, you will still carry your heavy rucksack and climb down this mountain right long the folks that didn't quit. When we reach the bottom, it's another day."
 
I posted this earlier this year for another parent who's doolie was considering leaving in the second semester. Hope it helps put some perspective for your cadet.

I told mine a long time ago that if you decide to quit/decide to leave, do it on a good day; a day when everything is going well, when your grades are good and the sun is shining. But never quit on a bad day; when your grades are crappy, everyone's yelling at you and everything seems lost. If you can walk away on a good day, then there is nothing else that will make you stay or hold you back, and the decision to leave is the right thing. However, if you walk away on a bad day, you are just reacting to the stress and your mind is not thinking clearly and is under duress. The chances are those things/events are short lived and really no big deals in the grand scheme of things (a day, a month, four years, 20 years later.) That would be the wrong time to leave because when things get better and the sun shines again, the regret sets in. And I am sure the academy is not too keen on giving second chances for those reasons. I'm sure that there are a lot of cadets, former and current, at one point in time thought the same way as your son.

The military is not for everyone, but like most people have already said, does he not want to be at the academy or does he not want to be in the military? He is a doolie and doolie life sucks and is not representative of the upper three years and I promise you it will just get much better, so I am told. Life is full of "what ifs", some good and some regretful, I hope he doesn't make it the latter. Good luck and God bless. PM me if you need to talk.
 
Here's (a long) one...shared with love from the files of the West Point Moms.

TO: Any Plebe considering leaving West Point at this time
Consider carefully *why* you are leaving:
1. Is it because you have seen the Army, some elements of its life and people, and decided that it is not the *life* you want?
2. Is it because you have seen the inside of West Point, the walls, the System, the "atmosphere," and decided that that is not the *college* you want?
3. Is it because you have seen the men and women who are the Upper Classes, and decided they are not the *associations* you want?
4. Is it because life is miserable, you are miserable, West Point is miserable, the people are miserable, the Yearlings (as apart from people) are miserable, the snow is miserable, the classes are miserable, reveille is miserable, marching is miserable, training is miserable, the sky is miserable.....?
Been there.
Done that.
So has everyone else who has gone before you.
OK. Now listen up. You may quit for any of the reasons 1-3 if you have answered them honestly and dispassionately; if you have *really* looked at what you want in life,... and the Army, its school, and its people are not for you. Know that *most* people who finally leave West Point see these as good and valid reasons. They are. ... And no one will ever think any less of you if you decide to make a success in a different direction of life. That's part of growing up. Part of becoming an adult.
But Number 4 isn't a good reason. At least not an adult reason. At least not yet.
NO ONE has ever gone through West Point without serious thoughts of quitting. That's what the first year is for. If you WEREN'T thinking of resigning, the Academy has at least partially failed in testing your hopes, your dreams, your upbringing, ...you. You are in a dark fog now, a fog known by every other cadet--Plebe and upper-class alike, both present and prior classes, every graduate and non-graduate. It is after Christmas, Christmas Leave, and before Spring. It is Gloom Period.
Don't even think of a rational decision now. You're more than halfway to Recognition, to Yearling status, to having *Beat Them At Their Own Game.*
What you're *not,* is finished with... - An academic year that you can transfer - Building the ability to hold your head up to say "I finished everything they could throw at me" - The test of your life to date

You STAY until the end of the year. You stay four months. You stay through Spring, and then May.
Then your options are anything you want. Do anything any earlier and you will always wonder "....What if?" And ask yourself, "If only...." And you will have wasted the most valuable year of your life. For you will have quit in the middle of the Lesson, ...the middle of finding out who you are.
What you should never NEVER do, however,...is stay for your family,...your Mother, Father, brothers, sisters,...uncles, grandparents, ...or anyone else who thinks they have the right to ask you to remain at West Point.
No one has that right. That right, that choice, that decision is yours alone.
West Point is only for those who live the life, walk the walk, dream the dream. And sometimes that takes time.
Take that time.
Never quit until you've beat the system.
Then your life's your own, and no one can ever take it from you.

Mike Havey`68
Parent of USMA 2012 grad & 2019 appointee
Author, The Mom's Guide to Surviving West Point
 
From a poster on the USNA threads...

neugs said: ↑
I left at the end ofI-Day. It was an impulse and rash decision and I just wanted to get out of there. I know at the moment it probably feels terrible. Of course it will though. You know the saying 20,000 people apply but 1,000 regret it? I hate that saying because in reality, those 1,000 will be 1,000 light years ahead of everyone other college graduate. I didn't think of the future when I wated to leave. I only thought to myself that I wanted to get out and that I was the only one who felt scared and lost, when in reality, everyone else was in the same position as me. If you are still there and are thinking about leaving, wait until the end of the year. Sure civilian college would be so much more fun. But is that what you really want? Going to the academy you have a pride instilled in you. Nowhere else can you wake up and be proud of where you are going and what you are you are doing for this country. At civilian college, I wake up, look at the clock, and then say, looks like I can still sleep some more. Whereas at the academy, you wake up, perform your duties to set you up for the real life. I should have never left. It was such an immature decision. Not a day goes by that I don't think about it. To be honest, the feeling was terrible when I went back to my hometown. I didn't even make it pas the first day! And to go back to a town where they were so proud of my achievement (very few people have been accepted over the years from my town). And for my parents, I felt like a failure to them. There is no greater feeling than saying "My son/daughter attends an Academy.". I'm just putting it in reality that for te first couple weeks you will keep questioning yourself. Hell, I'm still questioning myself. I want to know what I really want to do with my life. It sucks. I feel like a I have a load of guilt on me all the time. In class, in my form, talking with my friends; all of those somehow relate back to Annapolis and haunt me. I feel like each and very way I turn, something relates to the Navy. But that's just the way it is. I remember my Dad saying to me prior to me leaving to Annaplis that, "Think about it, all the stories you will have for your kids, grand kids, friends. There will be no greater feeling than going to this place." He was right. Now I'm at a private catholic school and yea, the life is fun. But it will never beat the pride and feeling of being at the Naval Academy.
 
skismuggs said:
I posted this earlier this year for another parent who's doolie was considering leaving in the second semester. Hope it helps put some perspective for your cadet.

I told mine a long time ago that if you decide to quit/decide to leave, do it on a good day; a day when everything is going well, when your grades are good and the sun is shining. But never quit on a bad day; when your grades are crappy, everyone's yelling at you and everything seems lost. If you can walk away on a good day, then there is nothing else that will make you stay or hold you back, and the decision to leave is the right thing. However, if you walk away on a bad day, you are just reacting to the stress and your mind is not thinking clearly and is under duress. The chances are those things/events are short lived and really no big deals in the grand scheme of things (a day, a month, four years, 20 years later.) That would be the wrong time to leave because when things get better and the sun shines again, the regret sets in. And I am sure the academy is not too keen on giving second chances for those reasons. I'm sure that there are a lot of cadets, former and current, at one point in time thought the same way as your son.

The military is not for everyone, but like most people have already said, does he not want to be at the academy or does he not want to be in the military? He is a doolie and doolie life sucks and is not representative of the upper three years and I promise you it will just get much better, so I am told. Life is full of "what ifs", some good and some regretful, I hope he doesn't make it the latter. Good luck and God bless. PM me if you need to talk.
Click to expand...

This one seriously ranks up there with the best pieces of advice that I have incorporated into my own life. Thank you skismuggs!

My DS called me the other day grumbling about things mainly about the jarring switch between BCT and the Academic year. Flymom19 its a delicate balance what you're going through with your DS. Give advice but don't push too much. You don't want the situation to turn into he's staying because he's doing what you want him to do (not your intention I know that but he might THINK that). You know your DS the best so walk that line very carefully. Try your best to get him involved with others and his friends, make sure he's not stuck in his room all the time.

Has he talked about any club/groups that he would like to join? Have him focus on those. It truly is a team environment and their will be things that he's not good at. That's when he needs to lean on or get help from his teammates. He shouldn't expect to be perfect at everything. On the flip side there will be things he's great at and he should seek out those that aren't so go at that and help them.

Also if he's worried about the academics advise him to go to EI ahead of time! I learned the one from Fencer. Don't wait until it's an issue, be proactive and get EI before he gets that bad GR back. My Ds had his first German class yesterday and his processor only said two sentences in english the entire class was in shock my DS never took any German in the past other than the joke when he said the number nine in a German accent of no!. One sentence basically amounted to you're going to be confused you're going to be lost too bad suck it up. My words not the professors exact words. And I passed on Fencers advice and hope for the best for him. I also told him to do really good in German and you can be lucky enough to go abroad to study or train. Change the negative to a positive focus.

But ultimately if he truly wants to leave that's ok too. I've mentioned it in another post that a lot of our kids go to an SA with rose colored glasses on and when those come off they may not like what they see. My son struggled with that at Prep for a bit so I keep mentioning it here so perspective canadettes understand that there are good things and bad thing you have to accept both if you want to stay. And if you can't that's ok too.

Lastly I know a lot of people have reached out to you but if you need my DS to talk to him as well let me know.
 
I am so sorry to hear he is doubting himself. At some point, they all experience doubts and wonder "do I have what it takes?" He wouldn't be there if the USAFA didn't believe he couldn't handle it. There is no way they would have offered him up a slot if they believed for one moment that he couldn't make it.

Many of them go through a lot of soul searching after they return back from basic.

I hope he soon recovers his confidence and belief in himself.
 
Does anybody know if he leaves at the end of this first semester, does he have to pay out of pocket for the issued items that his cadet pay hasn't covered yet? He's telling me that the way he understands it, he will be issued around $10,000 worth of gear by the end of the year, but his cadet pay will only cover about half of that, and he will have to pay for anything he can't return to be reused. If he leaves now, though, he says he thinks he can return his computer, books, and some unused uniform items, and his cadet pay will cover the rest, so he won't owe anything. I've always heard that you can leave any time before Commitment and not owe anything. Does anybody out there know how it works?
 
raimius said:
He hasn't even started yet!

Self-doubt happens. I certainly had my fair share of moments where I asked, "Can I hack this?" Sometime the honest answer was, "I don't know..."
That is a rough realization, and it can go either way. The thing is, if he doesn't know, he needs to find out. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
I kept going because, in 15 years, I did not want to lay there in bed and and wonder at night, "I wonder if I could have graduated..."

BCT can be a kick in the junk, but it is there to set you up to learn. It isn't the same as 4 dig year, and 4 dig year isn't "the academy." The challenges change. Each year is different. I would be lying if I said, "it'll definitely get easier, after this." It doesn't. It just changes. First semester is a reality check for some. The academics are not the same as in high school. Things aren't spoon-fed. That can take some adjustment--but it is just that--an adjustment. It is not the end of the world. You adapt, and you overcome.

Some people realize they don't want to be an Air Force officer. That is OK. There are plenty of awesome jobs out there--brain surgeons, firefighters, Navy Seals, white-hat hackers, Fortune 500 executives, etc, etc. I just don't have the desire to pursue those. This is fine. It is important to decide what things do drive you. If serving in the AF is not what you are called to do, then by all means, leave. That would be the smart choice. Don't waste your time on something not right for you. BUT if you do feel that calling to service, you need to give it a chance. Put in the effort. Take the shot. If it is not meant to be, it won't...but if it is...don't you want to know?

I don't want to look back at my life and have that nagging, clawing question eat at me. "What if...?"
Click to expand...

So true.
 
Last edited:
USAFA83GradWife said:
FlyMom19, I think you've already gotten some really good contacts and advice. There's one other resource available to your son and that's his C3C coach. The coaches are their mentors and have recently finished their first year. They certainly still have a vivid understanding of what your son is going through.
Click to expand...

I will suggest that. Thanks.
 
fencersmother said:
Oh my, this is sad to read, but it does happen; your DS is not alone! But he may feel alone, especially if he feels no one else is this <sad, lonely, scared, petrified> as I am now.

The beginning of the academic year scares a lot of 4*s - and for some, who have no fear at all, well, they may spend some time on acpro while they get "acclimated."

Please encourage your DS to stay at least the whole year, or at minimum the whole semester. If no other arguments work, remind him he took someone else's spot and owes it to that person. (I know, that's pretty awful, so that's why I suggest it only as a last resort)

Let your DS know that except for UPT, BCT was the most difficult part of my twins' 4 years at USAFA.
Click to expand...

We're trying to get him to agree to stay for the first semester at least at this point. Thank you for the suggestions.
 
"I will just add a practical consideration as to if he leaves now, he proabably won't start a college until the spring. If so why not give the academic year a try and if things doesn't work out leave after the first semester, while applying to different colleges to start the spring semester."

LG,

Yep. That's one of the suggestions we gave him. He does still have a full-tuition scholarship available to him at his backup university that he kept in case he ended up with a medical turn back during BCT, and it's looking pretty appealing to him right now. Hard decision.
 
Last edited:
skismuggs said:
I posted this earlier this year for another parent who's doolie was considering leaving in the second semester. Hope it helps put some perspective for your cadet.

I told mine a long time ago that if you decide to quit/decide to leave, do it on a good day; a day when everything is going well, when your grades are good and the sun is shining. But never quit on a bad day; when your grades are crappy, everyone's yelling at you and everything seems lost. If you can walk away on a good day, then there is nothing else that will make you stay or hold you back, and the decision to leave is the right thing. However, if you walk away on a bad day, you are just reacting to the stress and your mind is not thinking clearly and is under duress. The chances are those things/events are short lived and really no big deals in the grand scheme of things (a day, a month, four years, 20 years later.) That would be the wrong time to leave because when things get better and the sun shines again, the regret sets in. And I am sure the academy is not too keen on giving second chances for those reasons. I'm sure that there are a lot of cadets, former and current, at one point in time thought the same way as your son.

The military is not for everyone, but like most people have already said, does he not want to be at the academy or does he not want to be in the military? He is a doolie and doolie life sucks and is not representative of the upper three years and I promise you it will just get much better, so I am told. Life is full of "what ifs", some good and some regretful, I hope he doesn't make it the latter. Good luck and God bless. PM me if you need to talk.
Click to expand...

Really good advice. I sent this one to him.
 
Last edited:
skismuggs said:
Here's (a long) one...shared with love from the files of the West Point Moms.

TO: Any Plebe considering leaving West Point at this time
Consider carefully *why* you are leaving:
1. Is it because you have seen the Army, some elements of its life and people, and decided that it is not the *life* you want?
2. Is it because you have seen the inside of West Point, the walls, the System, the "atmosphere," and decided that that is not the *college* you want?
3. Is it because you have seen the men and women who are the Upper Classes, and decided they are not the *associations* you want?
4. Is it because life is miserable, you are miserable, West Point is miserable, the people are miserable, the Yearlings (as apart from people) are miserable, the snow is miserable, the classes are miserable, reveille is miserable, marching is miserable, training is miserable, the sky is miserable.....?
Been there.
Done that.
So has everyone else who has gone before you.
OK. Now listen up. You may quit for any of the reasons 1-3 if you have answered them honestly and dispassionately; if you have *really* looked at what you want in life,... and the Army, its school, and its people are not for you. Know that *most* people who finally leave West Point see these as good and valid reasons. They are. ... And no one will ever think any less of you if you decide to make a success in a different direction of life. That's part of growing up. Part of becoming an adult.
But Number 4 isn't a good reason. At least not an adult reason. At least not yet.
NO ONE has ever gone through West Point without serious thoughts of quitting. That's what the first year is for. If you WEREN'T thinking of resigning, the Academy has at least partially failed in testing your hopes, your dreams, your upbringing, ...you. You are in a dark fog now, a fog known by every other cadet--Plebe and upper-class alike, both present and prior classes, every graduate and non-graduate. It is after Christmas, Christmas Leave, and before Spring. It is Gloom Period.
Don't even think of a rational decision now. You're more than halfway to Recognition, to Yearling status, to having *Beat Them At Their Own Game.*
What you're *not,* is finished with... - An academic year that you can transfer - Building the ability to hold your head up to say "I finished everything they could throw at me" - The test of your life to date

You STAY until the end of the year. You stay four months. You stay through Spring, and then May.
Then your options are anything you want. Do anything any earlier and you will always wonder "....What if?" And ask yourself, "If only...." And you will have wasted the most valuable year of your life. For you will have quit in the middle of the Lesson, ...the middle of finding out who you are.
What you should never NEVER do, however,...is stay for your family,...your Mother, Father, brothers, sisters,...uncles, grandparents, ...or anyone else who thinks they have the right to ask you to remain at West Point.
No one has that right. That right, that choice, that decision is yours alone.
West Point is only for those who live the life, walk the walk, dream the dream. And sometimes that takes time.
Take that time.
Never quit until you've beat the system.
Then your life's your own, and no one can ever take it from you.

Mike Havey`68
Parent of USMA 2012 grad & 2019 appointee
Author, The Mom's Guide to Surviving West Point
Click to expand...

We're trying to figure out if his reason is more along the lines of 2 or 4.
 
Boozebin said:
skismuggs said:
I posted this earlier this year for another parent who's doolie was considering leaving in the second semester. Hope it helps put some perspective for your cadet.

I told mine a long time ago that if you decide to quit/decide to leave, do it on a good day; a day when everything is going well, when your grades are good and the sun is shining. But never quit on a bad day; when your grades are crappy, everyone's yelling at you and everything seems lost. If you can walk away on a good day, then there is nothing else that will make you stay or hold you back, and the decision to leave is the right thing. However, if you walk away on a bad day, you are just reacting to the stress and your mind is not thinking clearly and is under duress. The chances are those things/events are short lived and really no big deals in the grand scheme of things (a day, a month, four years, 20 years later.) That would be the wrong time to leave because when things get better and the sun shines again, the regret sets in. And I am sure the academy is not too keen on giving second chances for those reasons. I'm sure that there are a lot of cadets, former and current, at one point in time thought the same way as your son.

The military is not for everyone, but like most people have already said, does he not want to be at the academy or does he not want to be in the military? He is a doolie and doolie life sucks and is not representative of the upper three years and I promise you it will just get much better, so I am told. Life is full of "what ifs", some good and some regretful, I hope he doesn't make it the latter. Good luck and God bless. PM me if you need to talk.
Click to expand...

This one seriously ranks up there with the best pieces of advice that I have incorporated into my own life. Thank you skismuggs!

My DS called me the other day grumbling about things mainly about the jarring switch between BCT and the Academic year. Flymom19 its a delicate balance what you're going through with your DS. Give advice but don't push too much. You don't want the situation to turn into he's staying because he's doing what you want him to do (not your intention I know that but he might THINK that). You know your DS the best so walk that line very carefully. Try your best to get him involved with others and his friends, make sure he's not stuck in his room all the time.

Has he talked about any club/groups that he would like to join? Have him focus on those. It truly is a team environment and their will be things that he's not good at. That's when he needs to lean on or get help from his teammates. He shouldn't expect to be perfect at everything. On the flip side there will be things he's great at and he should seek out those that aren't so go at that and help them.

Also if he's worried about the academics advise him to go to EI ahead of time! I learned the one from Fencer. Don't wait until it's an issue, be proactive and get EI before he gets that bad GR back. My Ds had his first German class yesterday and his processor only said two sentences in english the entire class was in shock my DS never took any German in the past other than the joke when he said the number nine in a German accent of no!. One sentence basically amounted to you're going to be confused you're going to be lost too bad suck it up. My words not the professors exact words. And I passed on Fencers advice and hope for the best for him. I also told him to do really good in German and you can be lucky enough to go abroad to study or train. Change the negative to a positive focus.

But ultimately if he truly wants to leave that's ok too. I've mentioned it in another post that a lot of our kids go to an SA with rose colored glasses on and when those come off they may not like what they see. My son struggled with that at Prep for a bit so I keep mentioning it here so perspective canadettes understand that there are good things and bad thing you have to accept both if you want to stay. And if you can't that's ok too.

Lastly I know a lot of people have reached out to you but if you need my DS to talk to him as well let me know.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Boozebin. You have a lot of good advice here.
 
MombaBomba said:
I am so sorry to hear he is doubting himself. At some point, they all experience doubts and wonder "do I have what it takes?" He wouldn't be there if the USAFA didn't believe he couldn't handle it. There is no way they would have offered him up a slot if they believed for one moment that he couldn't make it.

Many of them go through a lot of soul searching after they return back from basic.

I hope he soon recovers his confidence and belief in himself.
Click to expand...

He seems to be doing slightly better today. Thanks for your kind words.
 
I've been following this post and can add no advice to the excellent posts already but I do encourage you and your DS to keep moving forward one day at a time. I'm so glad to hear he is doing even slightly better today.
 
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