Cadet Command boldly changing ROTC program

Another issue that might be worthy of study since the whole program appears to be up for redesign:

Currently the Branches into which ROTC cadets commission are placed into three logical categories:

I. Maneuvers, Fires, and Effects (used to mostly be called "Combat Arms"): Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Engineering, Chemical, Aviation, Military Police. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 1,092 2LTs

II. Operations Support (used to be mostly called "Combat Support"): Military Intelligence and Signal Corps. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 581 2LTs

III. Force Sustainment (used to mostly be "Combat Service Support") Adjutant General, Transportation, Quartermaster, Finance, Ordnance). Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 810 2LTs

II + III combined: 1,392 2LTs.

Though the majority (56% in 2011) of cadets commissioning out of ROTC do not Branch MFE, it seems the majority of ROTC training (Labs, FTX, STX lanes, especially LDAC, etc.) is geared toward preparing cadets for the tactics and procedures used by MFE bound cadets. The cadet targeting Adjutant General (HR), or Military Intelligence, or Quartermaster (supplies and logistics), or other non-MFE Branches all train as though all cadets are headed for Infantry, but there appears to be no similar training emphasis geared toward ROTC cadets who will serve in Operations Support or Force Sustainment branches. Somebody please correct me if my observations from afar are inaccurate. The majority of cadets will not serve in the MFE Branches, but in the other two. So my impression is that either CC considers these non-MFE Branches to not require targeted training while in ROTC, or MFE is the mission critical training, and the other two divisions are not as critical and can be picked up in a more ad hoc fashion.
 
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It's in the Background.....

The referenced point is in the background of one of the two pictures of MG Smith.:cool:
 
The reason I mentioned a higher budget cost is because sending MS1s to training, even if the flights are centralized, will be a large expense. Add to that the cost of keeping the MS3s there to train them. Sounds like good training depending on the quality of the MS3s doing the training.

The article was quoted saying "every" cadet between their MS1 and MS2 year would go to this summer training. The article doesn't say anything about being contracted.
 
QA1517 said:
I doubt that they would be doing press releases of all this if the funding aspect was not already thought of. The moving to Fort Knox has been discussion for a couple of years.


And if you look at it, the transition takes place over the next 3 years.
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Don't bet the farm on that- "new" brilliant ideas for "radical" change usually have a half life of about the same as a command tour. (Anybody remember the new PT test that was plastrered across the Army times every week for about 18 months? Where is it now?) I would put money down on the ROTC curriculum being fundamentally the same 4 years from now as it is today. They won't have the funding and there are serious issues that will prevent a second summer training requirement (like funding, unwillingness to support additional creidt hour requirements and Cadet summer employment interruptions). As far as eliminating contract instructors from places like "ComTek" - same deal- funding and manpower authorization won't be there. Those Reservists/ Retiree contractors cost a lot less than an active duty person to teach those ROTC courses. My Crystal Ball says: " Won't happen". Of course I could just be cynical- but it is a cynicism born of 37 years of watching the Army promise "revolutionary" changes with rapid reversions to the status quo when faced with constraints. They did change the name of IOBC to Infantry BOLC and they did get rid of the Green Class A uniform so I suppose I could be wrong. Somebody want to put money on it though?:rolleyes:
 
Dunninla, a large reason that CC conducts MFE focused training is that it allows for one focused grading and ranking standard, hypothetically, across the whole of CC. How effectively this standard is taught and enforced at camp is debatable.
There could easily be more training geared towards the other branches, but it does make sense in the concept of one standard.
 
Is the Army nimble enough and do they have enough money and resources to have every currently contracted MSI go to Ft. Knox this summer (2014)? I cannot fathom that taking place on such short notice unless the plans have been drawn up and approved.
 
Again, the article did not say "contracted cadets" it specifically said "every cadet". That's why I think there is still a lot of discussion that will go on about this.
 
correction to above post:

Force Sustainment commissioned 620, not 810. I missed that Medical Service Corps is now categorized along with Nursing into Heath Services division, with 190 2LTs.

Still leaves MFE with 44% of the total mission set.
 
bruno said:
Don't bet the farm on that- "new" brilliant ideas for "radical" change usually have a half life of about the same as a command tour. (Anybody remember the new PT test that was plastrered across the Army times every week for about 18 months? Where is it now?) I would put money down on the ROTC curriculum being fundamentally the same 4 years from now as it is today. They won't have the funding and there are serious issues that will prevent a second summer training requirement (like funding, unwillingness to support additional creidt hour requirements and Cadet summer employment interruptions). As far as eliminating contract instructors from places like "ComTek" - same deal- funding and manpower authorization won't be there. Those Reservists/ Retiree contractors cost a lot less than an active duty person to teach those ROTC courses. My Crystal Ball says: " Won't happen". Of course I could just be cynical- but it is a cynicism born of 37 years of watching the Army promise "revolutionary" changes with rapid reversions to the status quo when faced with constraints. They did change the name of IOBC to Infantry BOLC and they did get rid of the Green Class A uniform so I suppose I could be wrong. Somebody want to put money on it though?:rolleyes:
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My money is with you Bruno. I can't see an Army, with only 2 combat ready brigades due to insufficient training, spending whatever dollars it takes (even if there is savings elsewhere) to make these changes at this time. Although I think some of the things being discussed would be great, I just don't see how it can happen when the Army leadership is complaining about a lack of resources.
 
dunninla said:
Another issue that might be worthy of study since the whole program appears to be up for redesign:

Currently the Branches into which ROTC cadets commission are placed into three logical categories:

I. Maneuvers, Fires, and Effects (used to mostly be called "Combat Arms"): Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Engineering, Chemical, Aviation, Military Police. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 1,092 2LTs

II. Operations Support (used to be mostly called "Combat Support"): Military Intelligence and Signal Corps. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 581 2LTs

III. Force Sustainment (used to mostly be "Combat Service Support") Adjutant General, Transportation, Quartermaster, Finance, Ordnance). Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 810 2LTs

II + III combined: 1,392 2LTs.

Though the majority (56% in 2011) of cadets commissioning out of ROTC do not Branch MFE, it seems the majority of ROTC training (Labs, FTX, STX lanes, especially LDAC, etc.) is geared toward preparing cadets for the tactics and procedures used by MFE bound cadets. The cadet targeting Adjutant General (HR), or Military Intelligence, or Quartermaster (supplies and logistics), or other non-MFE Branches all train as though all cadets are headed for Infantry, but there appears to be no similar training emphasis geared toward ROTC cadets who will serve in Operations Support or Force Sustainment branches. Somebody please correct me if my observations from afar are inaccurate. The majority of cadets will not serve in the MFE Branches, but in the other two. So my impression is that either CC considers these non-MFE Branches to not require targeted training while in ROTC, or MFE is the mission critical training, and the other two divisions are not as critical and can be picked up in a more ad hoc fashion.
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The same is true for enlisted soldiers, they all attend the same BCT before they head off to MOS specific training

The issue is that not all cadets know exactly what they want as far as a branch until they have completed LDAC and possibly CTLT. take my son as an example, he wanted MI until the first week of his MS4 year, then he switched to Aviation. They train for the broad scope of the Army, these new LTs will get their branch specific training at BOLC.
 
Interesting to see contractors finally being cut, I wonder if these effects will be seen at BOLC as well where 90% of my instructors were contractors.
 
dunninla said:
Another issue that might be worthy of study since the whole program appears to be up for redesign:

Currently the Branches into which ROTC cadets commission are placed into three logical categories:

I. Maneuvers, Fires, and Effects (used to mostly be called "Combat Arms"): Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Air Defense Artillery, Engineering, Chemical, Aviation, Military Police. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 1,092 2LTs

II. Operations Support (used to be mostly called "Combat Support"): Military Intelligence and Signal Corps. Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 581 2LTs

III. Force Sustainment (used to mostly be "Combat Service Support") Adjutant General, Transportation, Quartermaster, Finance, Ordnance). Commissioned out of ROTC in 2011: 810 2LTs

II + III combined: 1,392 2LTs.

Though the majority (56% in 2011) of cadets commissioning out of ROTC do not Branch MFE, it seems the majority of ROTC training (Labs, FTX, STX lanes, especially LDAC, etc.) is geared toward preparing cadets for the tactics and procedures used by MFE bound cadets. The cadet targeting Adjutant General (HR), or Military Intelligence, or Quartermaster (supplies and logistics), or other non-MFE Branches all train as though all cadets are headed for Infantry, but there appears to be no similar training emphasis geared toward ROTC cadets who will serve in Operations Support or Force Sustainment branches. Somebody please correct me if my observations from afar are inaccurate. The majority of cadets will not serve in the MFE Branches, but in the other two. So my impression is that either CC considers these non-MFE Branches to not require targeted training while in ROTC, or MFE is the mission critical training, and the other two divisions are not as critical and can be picked up in a more ad hoc fashion.
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The training at LDAC or through the rest of ROTC focuses on every basic battle drills every soldier should know. When push comes to shove in some form we need to have an idea of how a combat soldier operates at the basic level. I wouldn't say ROTC focuses on MFE at all, rather it gives a broad overview of soldiering from an officer's lens.

BOLC teaches the nitty gritty of your branch....kind of.

If I did ROTC again I would like to see more of a "process" type of training. Meaning, I think it would be beneficial to show how a new officer reports to a unit, DA form basics before BOLC, NCO counseling, OER development, training meetings, better overview of MDMP/METL and other areas that EVERY officer should know. Catering to a category of branches will just be a headache. If a cadet wants to learn more about one branch find a mentor or do CTLT.
 
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Aglahad said:
Interesting to see contractors finally being cut, I wonder if these effects will be seen at BOLC as well where 90% of my instructors were contractors.
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My son said the same thing about flight school, lots of contractors. Of course they did start trying to get rid of the chubby ones this year.
 
sheriff3 said:
Is the Army nimble enough and do they have enough money and resources to have every currently contracted MSI go to Ft. Knox this summer (2014)? I cannot fathom that taking place on such short notice unless the plans have been drawn up and approved.
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My MS1 already has plans to be immersed in 6 weeks of Chinese language learning this coming summer, and all of his future course work is dependent on those 9 language credits he'll be getting, which will be followed by 6 more language credits in the fall of 2014, and followed after that by studying abroad in Beijing in spring of 2015, followed after that by an internship in Beijing in summer of 2015. I imagine that many current MS1s already have some plan for their 2014 summer and beyond, especially if they've got really good academic advisement, as they do at DSs SMC.

But I have no problem with more leadership training. I hope they figure out how to work it in so that DS can take advantage of everything they have to offer. It's such an exciting time for him.
 
Do you guys know of any way to apply for the pilot CIET program for MSI? DS would love this opportunity.
 
Cadre would be the best source (if they even know about it yet). Planning on talking to cadre about this next week.
 
How many cadets would they take for a pilot program? I would initially guess about 50 cadets from each brigade. I think cadre could quickly pick some motivated candidates that benefit from more training that FTX or instruction may not always provide.
 
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