Can an Engineering Degree Wait?

LiftsToFly

New Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2017
Messages
9
I am a 4/c navy option midshipman and I am having second guesses about my mechanical engineering major. I am decent at the math, but am not particularly drawn into the upper division topics (statics, materials, thermals, blech). My reasons for choosing the major are more extrinsic and related the careers associated with it. Being a pilot is my goal above anything else, and after that I'm considering branching into things like being a test pilot or engineer with the navy.
How much does undergraduate degree matter? I'm interested in working in the field of engineering in the future, but can I pursue a less stressful bachelor's and get a master's in engineering before going into that field?
Is a career path of pilot --> test pilot --> engineer feasible without doing engineering undergrad? Side note: this is all very flexible and I know my career path won't be entirely up to me, I'm just putting these things out there as hypotheticals.
 
If you’re on NROTC scholarship, changing your major from Tier I or Tier II to a major in Tier III could affect your scholarship status. Remember that Tier I/II mids get the bulk of scholarships.

As for career choice, your major has no bearing. You can be a pilot whether your major is aeronautical engineering or history.

Here’s where your reasoning falls apart: You want to work in engineering someday and you want to get there via a master’s degree in engineering. And yet the upper-level courses of a bachelor’s degree in engineering are, to use your word, “bleh.” Have you looked at the curriculum for a master’s degree in engineering? The classes are a lot like upper-division bachelor’s degree classes — only harder. See where I’m going here?
 
I know for AF test pilot school, you cannot be accepted without some kind of technical degree, and I'm almost certain Navy Test Pilot School at Pax River has the same requirement. So no, you are unlikely to be eligible to attend test pilot school without an engineering degree.

Also, getting a masters in engineering is going to be damn near impossible if your original undergrad is not in engineering. Unless you major in something like math, you will be lacking the majority of the prerequisite courses that you need to accomplish a masters. Classes like statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, materials, etc. are the basics of engineering. Without the fundamentals, there is no way you can jump straight into a masters program in engineering and be successful.
 
You will need a technical degree to get selected for TPS in the Navy. I have had several friends go that path and it is a requirement. Some had Master’s in engineering, others had not completed their’s yet. To be an EDO in the Navy you will need an engineering degree. As mentioned, changing Tiers has rules. Tier 1 to 2 isn’t that hard, but to Tier 3 it is another story. Talk with your PMS.
 
I know for AF test pilot school, you cannot be accepted without some kind of technical degree, and I'm almost certain Navy Test Pilot School at Pax River has the same requirement. So no, you are unlikely to be eligible to attend test pilot school without an engineering degree.

Also, getting a masters in engineering is going to be damn near impossible if your original undergrad is not in engineering. Unless you major in something like math, you will be lacking the majority of the prerequisite courses that you need to accomplish a masters. Classes like statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, materials, etc. are the basics of engineering. Without the fundamentals, there is no way you can jump straight into a masters program in engineering and be successful.

Not that simple...Had a Q&A session with an actual USCG engineering officer with a Masters in NavArch and Marine Engineering and she said the opposite of what you just wrote.
 
https://www.edwards.af.mil/Units/USAFTPS/

http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/i...tail&key=CB2856DE-ED6F-4145-B481-4119C7F439A3

@Jmoney457 - Based on the info at these links, easily found via google, I'd put my money on Tex232's and NavyHoops' input. The Navy link explicitly states applicants typically have an engineering degree. Not required though. So while the CG engineer is correct I'll bet the vast majority of those selected have the degree. You decide the level of risk you wish to accept.
 
https://www.edwards.af.mil/Units/USAFTPS/

http://www.navair.navy.mil/nawcad/i...tail&key=CB2856DE-ED6F-4145-B481-4119C7F439A3

@Jmoney457 - Based on the info at these links, easily found via google, I'd put my money on Tex232's and NavyHoops' input. The Navy link explicitly states applicants typically have an engineering degree. Not required though. So while the CG engineer is correct I'll bet the vast majority of those selected have the degree. You decide the level of risk you wish to accept.

Was not referring to the first part of his statement, I was referring to this:

"Also, getting a masters in engineering is going to be damn near impossible if your original undergrad is not in engineering. Unless you major in something like math, you will be lacking the majority of the prerequisite courses that you need to accomplish a masters."

which anyone can point out is blatantly incorrect.
 
I know for AF test pilot school, you cannot be accepted without some kind of technical degree, and I'm almost certain Navy Test Pilot School at Pax River has the same requirement. So no, you are unlikely to be eligible to attend test pilot school without an engineering degree.

Also, getting a masters in engineering is going to be damn near impossible if your original undergrad is not in engineering. Unless you major in something like math, you will be lacking the majority of the prerequisite courses that you need to accomplish a masters. Classes like statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, materials, etc. are the basics of engineering. Without the fundamentals, there is no way you can jump straight into a masters program in engineering and be successful.

Not that simple...Had a Q&A session with an actual USCG engineering officer with a Masters in NavArch and Marine Engineering and she said the opposite of what you just wrote.
It’s just my advice, feel free to take it or leave it. However I will say that my undergrad degree is engineering so I have a pretty good idea what I’m talking about. I have met many engineers (both military and civilian) who have Masters or above in engineering, and not one of them had obtained that level of education w/out first getting the bachelors. Also, you will most likely find that many universities wouldn’t even admit someone to an engineering masters program if they did not already hold a bachelors.

BTW, Architecture (marine, or otherwise) is not engineering. Architects are the dreamers, engineers make those dreams happen ;)
 
I was a group 3 major at USNA, so I have a BS in history. I have multiple Masters degrees. One of them is in Systems Engineering. I was the lone non-STEM in my group and never struggled. We had a few with physics degrees. I think my USNA background and multiple years working as a systems engineer really helped me. I was admitted to the program after a lot of discussion and review of my work. Now I think systems is a unique area and one that I thrive in. Could I have done a Masters in MechE or Electrical, no. Or at least it would of sucked for me.
 
I know for AF test pilot school, you cannot be accepted without some kind of technical degree, and I'm almost certain Navy Test Pilot School at Pax River has the same requirement. So no, you are unlikely to be eligible to attend test pilot school without an engineering degree.

Also, getting a masters in engineering is going to be damn near impossible if your original undergrad is not in engineering. Unless you major in something like math, you will be lacking the majority of the prerequisite courses that you need to accomplish a masters. Classes like statics, dynamics, thermodynamics, materials, etc. are the basics of engineering. Without the fundamentals, there is no way you can jump straight into a masters program in engineering and be successful.

Not that simple...Had a Q&A session with an actual USCG engineering officer with a Masters in NavArch and Marine Engineering and she said the opposite of what you just wrote.
It’s just my advice, feel free to take it or leave it. However I will say that my undergrad degree is engineering so I have a pretty good idea what I’m talking about. I have met many engineers (both military and civilian) who have Masters or above in engineering, and not one of them had obtained that level of education w/out first getting the bachelors. Also, you will most likely find that many universities wouldn’t even admit someone to an engineering masters program if they did not already hold a bachelors.

BTW, Architecture (marine, or otherwise) is not engineering. Architects are the dreamers, engineers make those dreams happen ;)

Majors such as history and english should not be offered at the Naval Academy. There is nothing practical or worthwhile to learn there that is applicable to anybody's future career as a naval officer. Offering majors like that makes the naval academy a four year black hole of sorts, just a place to age the body for four years before a commission is granted. It is a waste of the taxpayers money and the time of the midshipmen studying these useless majors.
 
There is nothing practical or worthwhile to learn there that is applicable to anybody's future career as a naval officer. Offering majors like that makes the naval academy a four year black hole of sorts, just a place to age the body for four years before a commission is granted

I would expect that our current SECDEF, who holds a BA in history, would disagree with you.
 
I can only go by the advice my DD got (not ROTC). She chose a school as a sophomore in high school because she was a recruited athlete. She specifically chose a school with a great engineering program that had a material science engineering degree because she was not sure between material science and chemical engineering. She found out late senior year during freshman orientation, and after signing her NLI and getting into the engineering school as a freshman, that her athletic practice schedule and being an engineering student were not compatable. I contacted a friend of mine who is the graduate material science advisor and an engineering professor at a local university, which happens to be a highly ranked engineering school. He had my daughter come to campus and take a tour. He had her meet with quite a few people, both graduate students and professors whose undergrad had NOT been in engineering but had gone on to get masters and/or PhD’s in engineering. I remember one of them had a chemistry undergrad because that was where she was leaning also. He advised her to study whatever science she was interested the most (which is chemistry) and that she could get a graduate degree in engineering after graduating with her bachelors degree. He did say it is more challenging to do it that way, but as long as she has the math under her belt, it is doable.

So I know it is possible. As far as my daughter is concerned, she switched to chemistry and then she decided not to do that, she still regrets that engineering as an undergrad didn’t work out but is now a Psychological Sciences major with a business minor and is looking at Industrial/organizational Pysch for grad school and a as a field.

I still think if an undergrad engineering degree is not interesting or seems too challenging, I cannot imagine a graduate degree is going to fit the bill either. Sometimes the “idea of something” ends up being better than the actual thing. But is it possible? Yes.
 
There is nothing practical or worthwhile to learn there that is applicable to anybody's future career as a naval officer. Offering majors like that makes the naval academy a four year black hole of sorts, just a place to age the body for four years before a commission is granted

I would expect that our current SECDEF, who holds a BA in history, would disagree with you.

Shook hands with Mr. Mattis last year after my junior year, when he was commencement speaker. I recall he said after the speech that one of the positive aspects of the Merchant Marine Academy is that both majors, Engineering and Trans, have some technical aspects.

But, to digress, getting a degree in History back in those days was excusable. Today, I think we live in a different environment, and it is more clear now than it was before that studying history is a waste of time due to the use of technology just about everywhere these days.
 
Technology is important, and definitely I don’t want to argue with you about this. In the job market, and I am referring to in the civilian world, a BA in history is not very marketable. At the same time, I surely hope that all of our leaders have a healthy understanding of history, because if they do not, we are truly in trouble.
 
Technology changes, yes. But human beings remain the same, and history, as a social science, is a study of the past actions of human beings. It's still relevant and even useful, especially for those at the highest levels like Mattis. There's a reason he's so well read. It's relevant... including the writings of Marcus Aurelius almost 2,000 years ago. Ask Mattis about that the next time you bump into him.

I would also add that what a degree in history teaches, which is relevant in the civilian world, is how to do research using primary and secondary sources. If you think research isn't useful I think you would be mistaken.
 
+1 Kinnem, very wise words.
My eldest is in ROTC at a liberal arts university, those of you that have been around awhile also know that she started as a nursing scholarship recipient/student and recently was approved to switch to Conmunication studies. This was not a popular choice. When asked by cadre “are you just trying to take an easy major?”, her answer was “No sir, I just want to learn to be the best leader I can be.” Everyone has a different opinion what that will take. Even her sisters make fun of her major, especially when she was surprised that 75% of her intro to comm class were male athletes.... Even with this attitude, she was considered a valuable cadet and granted a transfer of scholarship to pursue Communciaitons. Military History is required for all ROTC cadets at her school, she took it in the spring last year. She realized she knew nothing about our history as a nation, especially when it comes to conflicts and wars. She is currently taking WWI history as an elective and considering a minor in hisotory if she can fit it in. Even if she cannot, she plans on taking more just to understand more about how we got to where we are as a nation.

Learning is never wasted, and always valuable, but this is coming from someone with a liberal arts bachelors degree and a science masters degree, and neither has been a waste to my career or my understanding of the world around me.
 
Yeah all those critical skills I learned writing well, defending my opinions and thoughts, pushing my thoughts and opinions, critical thinking, and presentation skills have really served me poorly in my career... not even close. They are the skills that I relied on as a Marine and what I use the most as a civilian today in a very technical career field. I have 4 degrees at this point in my life and don’t plan on getting any others. My USNA one was by far the toughest and the one I learned the most. My Masters are all over the map. The one with the least applicability to my civilian career was by far the one I use the most today. The skill sets I refined in critical thinking, research, crucial conversations, thinking quickly on the fly, analysis, problem solving was not my engineering masters, but my MA. To be totally honest my Masters in engineering is the one I think I learned the least from because it was just a repeat of what I did in my job daily. So yes, those two degrees I have in humanities related items have served me the most in my career. I have a pretty decent career going at a Fortune 75 Company, where I have climbed the ladder pretty well and have been sought after for critical roles. I enjoy what I do and the impact it makes daily is the most important part.
 
Last edited:
There is nothing practical or worthwhile to learn there that is applicable to anybody's future career as a naval officer. Offering majors like that makes the naval academy a four year black hole of sorts, just a place to age the body for four years before a commission is granted.

Wow! The ignorance and naïveté behind this statement are utterly breathtaking. Sadly, this technocratic mindset is increasingly pervasive, resulting in an increasingly shallow, simplistic and narcissistic society. If only life were so simple that we could get by on bits and bytes, and binary-type thinking that reduces everything to black and white. Think? Why bother? You could just Google the answer, right? All hail Wikipedia!

I love the technical aspects of the SA education — the STEM focus that results in everyone getting a BS regardless of major. But thank goodness also for the required courses in English, history and leadership (which pulls copiously from the fields of communication, history, psychology and philosophy). If not for those core courses — and yes, majors — we’d have a robotic officer corps that’s all arms (the lethal type) with no heart and no soul. That’s not true leadership. And it’s not the officer corps that our great republic deserves.
 
I can only go by the advice my DD got (not ROTC). She chose a school as a sophomore in high school because she was a recruited athlete. She specifically chose a school with a great engineering program that had a material science engineering degree because she was not sure between material science and chemical engineering. She found out late senior year during freshman orientation, and after signing her NLI and getting into the engineering school as a freshman, that her athletic practice schedule and being an engineering student were not compatable. I contacted a friend of mine who is the graduate material science advisor and an engineering professor at a local university, which happens to be a highly ranked engineering school. He had my daughter come to campus and take a tour. He had her meet with quite a few people, both graduate students and professors whose undergrad had NOT been in engineering but had gone on to get masters and/or PhD’s in engineering. I remember one of them had a chemistry undergrad because that was where she was leaning also. He advised her to study whatever science she was interested the most (which is chemistry) and that she could get a graduate degree in engineering after graduating with her bachelors degree. He did say it is more challenging to do it that way, but as long as she has the math under her belt, it is doable.

So I know it is possible. As far as my daughter is concerned, she switched to chemistry and then she decided not to do that, she still regrets that engineering as an undergrad didn’t work out but is now a Psychological Sciences major with a business minor and is looking at Industrial/organizational Pysch for grad school and a as a field.

I still think if an undergrad engineering degree is not interesting or seems too challenging, I cannot imagine a graduate degree is going to fit the bill either. Sometimes the “idea of something” ends up being better than the actual thing. But is it possible? Yes.

This may not be the best example of the type of transition the OP is looking to make.

I have a chemistry degree. In addition to having to have almost as many math credits as a math major, I also had to take physical chemistry and analytical chemistry, both of which are basically math classes with a chemistry twist . And, I had to take physics, thermodynamics, instrumentation, and quantum mechanics. All of this was for my BS in chemistry. Having a chemistry degree greatly prepares one to pursue engineering.

The OP seems to be wanting to bypass the hard classes but them jump in to a graduate program without the foundation. Is it possible? Anything's possible. Is it a good idea? I don't think so. Because as a practicing engineer you'll still need to call on those basics.

To the OP: what aspects of engineering do you find appealing that make you want to pursue it as a career? That could help you make your decision.
 
Back
Top