Can dual citizenship be commission as officer?

cb7893 said:
Why can't there be a @MullenLE on this subject.

Mrs. cb7893 started process for both DS's to get Polish citizenship and passport. When DS #1 accepted his AROTC she stopped the process. DS#2 proceeded when medically DQed from NROTC scholarship and is a dual citizen.

Ever since the subject keeps coming up and there is always a lack of clarity.

I'd concentrate more on keeping records of foreign travel and contacts, even with family members and not ditch the foreign citizenship until someone of authority other than an anonymous internet poster tells you to do it. If you wash out you'll wish you hadn't renounced it.
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Thankyou!
 
cb7893 said:
Because he's a high school kid and has other things more important to worry about.

Edit: Sorry "she's". Old man. fading reading comprehension.
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Thankyou so much for your answer! I really appreciate it.
 
cb7893 said:
Why can't there be a @MullenLE on this subject.

Mrs. cb7893 started process for both DS's to get Polish citizenship and passport. When DS #1 accepted his AROTC she stopped the process. DS#2 proceeded when medically DQed from NROTC scholarship and is a dual citizen.

Ever since the subject keeps coming up and there is always a lack of clarity.

I'd concentrate more on keeping records of foreign travel and contacts, even with family members and not ditch the foreign citizenship until someone of authority other than an anonymous internet poster tells you to do it. If you wash out you'll wish you hadn't renounced it.
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x2 Why can't there be a @MullenLE on this subject!
 
I'm a US and Italian citizen. They're a NATO member and I've seen a variety of answers differing from "you must renounce" to "you sign an intent to renounce" to "don't worry about it"...

My current intent is if I get an appointment I'll ask them and bring my IT passport just in case.
 
I'm not sure if you need a security clearance while at the academy, however, I'm 97% sure most officer billets will require a security clearance after commissioning. According to my dad who holds a TS w/polygraph level clearance, you must be 1. A United States Citizen and 2. Not have any allegiance to a foreign country or entity before obtaining a security clearance. Being a dual-citizen would preclude a person from receiving a security clearance. I was a dual-citizen (American and Japanese) until this past January when I formally renounced my Japanese citizenship at the Consulate General of Japan Los Angeles office. It was a somewhat lengthy process involving my mom having to receive paperwork from Japan (family register, etc.)
 
There was a West Point grad who was tragically killed in Afghanistan some years back who had several brothers who were also grads and the obits around his passing definitely state that he was still at the time of his death a dual New Zealand/US citizen. In fact his uncle was a prominent politician in NZ. I suspect that once you have signed the willingness to renounce, whether you are actually asked to do so or not depends on a number of factors most importantly I imagine being the which country is involved. This was a few years ago though so info might be out of date.

https://www.west-point.org/users/usma2005/61562/
 
Not USAFA but USCGA my son is a US/UK dual citizenship. During his application to USCGA I asked this very question and the answer was it depends.

It depends on what country you are a citizen of
And
It depends what role you take as an officer

We were told that certainly for the duration of his time at the academy it is absolutely fine to have dual citizenship. Which would make sense as he won’t be an officer anyway.

We decided to leave things as they are for the time being.
 
Tex232 said:
Not entirely true. I commissioned with dual citizenship (by birth) and still hold my foreign citizenship. The document you mention - and the one I signed - states you will renounce your citizenship if asked to do so by the US government. However, formal renouncement would require a person to do this through the government of the country in question. The above document is basically meaningless outside of the DoD.
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Thank you for your input Tex232, my DS is in the same boat.

This thread confirms the same. https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/dual-citizenship.78093/#post-774881

I personally would wait until you receive the appointment before doing anything in terms of starting the process. Ask at the source for sure, do not just rely on other's experiences in this forum.
 
foxtailsean said:
If you want to attend the academy and becoming an officer is your true desire, what's holding you back from renouncing it right now?
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Hi foxtailsean, Every case is different. In DS's case it is not so cut and dry. He obviously would give up his foreign citizenship (German) if he is required to but if he can do the same as Tex232 describes that would be great. Who knows what the future holds for DS way down the road? After his service time in the military, maybe he would like to work abroad (anywhere in the EU), maybe down the road he will want to be closer to his father and grandparents who live there, or even retire there himself, who knows? There are all kinds of work permit, residency, tax laws and inheritance issues that are made a lot easier by keeping that foreign passport. Once you renounce it, I assume it is gone for good. DS's heart beats American but if he is allowed to keep the foreign citizenship and just not use it while he serves then I think keeping any future options open is a good idea.
 
FrauTeufelshund said:
Hi foxtailsean, Every case is different. In DS's case it is not so cut and dry. He obviously would give up his foreign citizenship (German) if he is required to but if he can do the same as Tex232 describes that would be great. Who knows what the future holds for DS way down the road? After his service time in the military, maybe he would like to work abroad (anywhere in the EU), maybe down the road he will want to be closer to his father and grandparents who live there, or even retire there himself, who knows? There are all kinds of work permit, residency, tax laws and inheritance issues that are made a lot easier by keeping that foreign passport. Once you renounce it, I assume it is gone for good. DS's heart beats American but if he is allowed to keep the foreign citizenship and just not use it while he serves then I think keeping any future options open is a good idea.
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This is the exact boat I am in. Couldn't have stated my own case any better. Good luck to you and your DS, fellow NATO ally! :)
 
I would repeat the advice to keep a good record of ALL your travel abroad and contacts overseas...whether it's visiting Tante Frieda in Frankfurt or Uncle Nigel in Nottingham. If after commissioning your Branch/Billet requires a Top Secret Security Clearance, the investigator will want to know about ALL your travel and contacts.

Q: If I had a secret clearance, will it be easier for me to obtain a top secret security clearance?​

A: A top secret security clearance requires a completely separate background investigation than a secret security clearance. An ajudicator will review your secret security clearance investigation records, as well as the determination, however. While the investigations are different and separate, the adjudicative criteria – with the exception of “Foreign Influence” – are exactly the same. The critical difference between a secret security clearance investigation and a top secret security clearance investigation is the Personal Subject Interview.

The rule with either clearance is that the more complete you fill out your SF-86, the easier it will be for you, and your investigator. How complete your paperwork is will also go a long way in speeding up the security clearance process. If your investigator has to chase down details (including employment history, references or previous investigation dates) the process may take much longer. Mitigate any issues by providing additional information about misdemeanor offenses, financial issues or other potential roadblocks.

Finally, a interim clearance is possible for both secret and top secret security clearance investigations. If your case is fairly straightforward, you may receive an interim clearance so you can begin working immediately, as you await final adjudication of your case.

Wish you all the best of luck!
 
My son is US born with both myself and my wife being naturalized citizens. I am a from a South American country that no one worries about but my wife is from a huge US ally that the US govenrment doesnt trust. My son wound up foreign passport as they wouldnt allow him to travel to my wifes home country without their passport as he is considered a citizen regardless of where he was born. He was under 2 at the time. We had my son renounce his citizenship from the other country before he finished AFROTC. The real problem is that other country has a draft and they rarely allow people to renounce their citizenship because 9 out of 10 times, it is done to avoid the draft. However since my son was entering the US military and would probably need TS clearance, they allow him to renounce his citizenship. My wife had to push like crazy to have this done quickly and luckily she was friendly with some of the consulate staff. Consulate didnt have the power to do this, so all of the paperwork was going between the consulate and their home nation Now here is where it gets weird because i have told this story before and someone says it cant be true as he is part of the people who does security clearance and isnt how it works, but my son has no reason to lie. When he was interviewd for his clearance he was told that the country he had dual citizneship was just got of their black list so that was good.. However because my wife was born there (US naturalized) and my other son (US born) had also gotten a foreign passpsort to visit that country, they were both considered foreign nationals for the disucssion of clearance. This is the part that is disputed . Anyway it all worked out. Just for some background there was a US dentist several years ago who retired and decided to join the Navy as a dentist. He was denied because of security reasons. Why because his mother who has dementia lived in that foreign country and since he called her and family members back there to see how see was doing, the military was afraid he would spill navy secrets to his his mother (who had dementia) and other family members. There was a huge stink and i think he was eventually let in. My son process happened after the deal with the dentist.
 
cb7893 said:
I would repeat the advice to keep a good record of ALL your travel abroad and contacts overseas...whether it's visiting Tante Frieda in Frankfurt or Uncle Nigel in Nottingham. If after commissioning your Branch/Billet requires a Top Secret Security Clearance, the investigator will want to know about ALL your travel and contacts.

Q: If I had a secret clearance, will it be easier for me to obtain a top secret security clearance?​

A: A top secret security clearance requires a completely separate background investigation than a secret security clearance. An ajudicator will review your secret security clearance investigation records, as well as the determination, however. While the investigations are different and separate, the adjudicative criteria – with the exception of “Foreign Influence” – are exactly the same. The critical difference between a secret security clearance investigation and a top secret security clearance investigation is the Personal Subject Interview.

The rule with either clearance is that the more complete you fill out your SF-86, the easier it will be for you, and your investigator. How complete your paperwork is will also go a long way in speeding up the security clearance process. If your investigator has to chase down details (including employment history, references or previous investigation dates) the process may take much longer. Mitigate any issues by providing additional information about misdemeanor offenses, financial issues or other potential roadblocks.

Finally, a interim clearance is possible for both secret and top secret security clearance investigations. If your case is fairly straightforward, you may receive an interim clearance so you can begin working immediately, as you await final adjudication of your case.

Wish you all the best of luck!
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cb7893! Thank you for these links. Very helpful indeed! This forum is awesome.
 
tadbtd said:
This is the exact boat I am in. Couldn't have stated my own case any better. Good luck to you and your DS, fellow NATO ally! :)
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Good luck to you as well, tadbtd! Promise to come back to this forum when you are faced with this issue yourself! I will do the same when DS does. (TWE from USMA, USNA still pending, but Plan B, the 4yr AROTC scholarship is most likely what is going to happen).
 
acoyle said:
Hello, I have questions regarding having Dual citizenship. I have 2 citizenship (Thai and American). Thai and America have been in a good relationship for a long time and I want to know that in order to be commission as an officer in the USAF do I have to renounce my citizenship? (I read from somewhere and it said that some country with good relationship with America doesn't have to renounce their citizenship)
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My friend in squad is a dual citizen. I wouldn't renounce it until/if they force you to. I was prior intel and I know for that career field you can't be dual citizen, but for USAFA it will depend on the country from my understanding. Talking to your admissions counselor about that!
 
kylieM said:
My friend in squad is a dual citizen. I wouldn't renounce it until/if they force you to. I was prior intel and I know for that career field you can't be dual citizen, but for USAFA it will depend on the country from my understanding. Talking to your admissions counselor about that!
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Thankyou!
 
JC2003 said:
I'm not sure if you need a security clearance while at the academy, however, I'm 97% sure most officer billets will require a security clearance after commissioning. According to my dad who holds a TS w/polygraph level clearance, you must be 1. A United States Citizen and 2. Not have any allegiance to a foreign country or entity before obtaining a security clearance. Being a dual-citizen would preclude a person from receiving a security clearance. I was a dual-citizen (American and Japanese) until this past January when I formally renounced my Japanese citizenship at the Consulate General of Japan Los Angeles office. It was a somewhat lengthy process involving my mom having to receive paperwork from Japan (family register, etc.)
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I can't speak for the other SAs but security clearance is part of USNA due to cruises and some coursework. Obviously not the case for USNA mids from foreign nations that are sent by their governments.
 
FrauTeufelshund said:
Good luck to you as well, tadbtd! Promise to come back to this forum when you are faced with this issue yourself! I will do the same when DS does. (TWE from USMA, USNA still pending, but Plan B, the 4yr AROTC scholarship is most likely what is going to happen).
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I'll let you know! :)
 
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