Can I get Naval/Marine Officer flight surgeon to do my eye exam or even entire flight medical as a civilian before applying?

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Snow

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I am looking to become an officer in the USMC and apply for an air contract when I do it. I am somewhat familiar with the process.

However, I don’t want to get to flight school and be medically disqualified like some people have that I have heard of by other officers/officer candidates and read of online.

I wear glasses correctable to 20/20 and expect to do surgery soon if approved by the USMC (not sure if approval goes through NAMI before commissioning though so if someone could clarify that, it would be greatly appreciated).

Also, I know there are other requirements such as the shape of the eye and other things on the eye exam that could disqualify me later if not found through a normal eye exam. So is there a way I (a civilian) could get a Naval/Marine Officer flight surgeon with current and specific information from NAMI that could do the exam and hopefully my entire flight medical before I even apply for the air contract (I would still want to be a USMC Officer though if not, just trying to get my best chance and not waste anyone’s time)?


TL;DR:

Can I as a civilian get a Naval/Marine Officer Flight Surgeon to do my eye exam or even my entire flight medical before I apply to the Marine Officer Air Contract?
 
Snow said:
I am looking to become an officer in the USMC and apply for an air contract when I do it. I am somewhat familiar with the process.

However, I don’t want to get to flight school and be medically disqualified like some people have that I have heard of by other officers/officer candidates and read of online.

I wear glasses correctable to 20/20 and expect to do surgery soon if approved by the USMC (not sure if approval goes through NAMI before commissioning though so if someone could clarify that, it would be greatly appreciated).

Also, I know there are other requirements such as the shape of the eye and other things on the eye exam that could disqualify me later if not found through a normal eye exam. So is there a way I (a civilian) could get a Naval/Marine Officer flight surgeon with current and specific information from NAMI that could do the exam and hopefully my entire flight medical before I even apply for the air contract (I would still want to be a USMC Officer though if not, just trying to get my best chance and not waste anyone’s time)?


TL;DR:

Can I as a civilian get a Naval/Marine Officer Flight Surgeon to do my eye exam or even my entire flight medical before I apply to the Marine Officer Air Contract?
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You are in the Naval Academy forum. Are you applying to USNA? If you are, there is the initial DoDMERB medical review process as part of the application, including eye. If you make it into USNA, you will have a pre-comm physical your junior year, which rules certain paths in or out. You will know if you are eligible for Marine air in the fall of senior year. After you submit assignment preferences, you will know if you have been selected for Marine air.

It would help people to answer you if they knew your commissioning path. NROTC MO has a pre-comm physical. PLC/OCS?

And, no matter the commissioning path, everyone going to flight training goes through the NAMI exam there, and yes, some get the “NAMI Whammy” and get DQ’ed there. Not massive numbers, but that physical is designed as the first comprehensive exam in a long line of flight physicals to come. That is the process that serves the needs of the Navy and Marine Corps, timed for the early phase of flight training, when the info is most current and accurate, and the exam performed by medical personnel trained to the standard. Individual needs and wants come after that.
 
Not sure if an active flight surgeon would be wiling to do it. But one who retired and is in private practice would gladly do it for a fee
 
My son received PRK surgery at Walter Reed in 2021 when he was a MIDN at USNA. After commissioning, he went on to serve in the Marine Corps.
I recall him telling me at the time that this type of surgery was the only kind that would be allowed for someone desiring an air contract and that "any prior surgery would make one ineligible". That is just anecdotal evidence and I'm not a doctor of any kind. I would however caution against getting any procedure like that before entering a service academy. Better to get in, get it done the correct way, and let them pay for it.

He now has 20/15 vision by the way (same as me!) but didn't take after dear old Dad's love of flying. Hey, there's still lots of stuff to do in the Corps on the ground, right?;)
 
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I am curious about the answers to Capt MJ’s questions. I think those answers will help.

Overall I cannot see any active duty flight surgeon doing a review unless it’s in an official capacity. They are not going to put their reputation on the line. Not even sure they would be allowed to unless it’s an official physical. Plenty of retired ones who could give their thoughts. Also, some food for thought. I understand you want to fly. But life happens. I had friends medically DQ’d at flight school even after passing their flight physicals. I had a good buddy who couldn’t get over motion sickness. Most drops are not medical related, but academic or performance related. TBS isn’t without its risks either.

How do you explain you want to be a Marine Corps Officer, only if you want to be a pilot? You say you do, but are you willing to ‘risk it’ without that non-guaranteed tag. The Marines, above any other service, want those who want to be officers first and foremost. Marines are passionate about being Marines. We are sort of a weird little cult who love being Marines more than anything else. The Marines are built around our infantry and those on the front lines. Being anything other than that is a supporting element and treated as such. You will lead Marines even as a pilot. You will have non-flying tours.
 
Agree 100% with 'Hoops...there are no guarantees in Navy (USMC) air...even if you could get an exam now, things could change by the time you go through TBS and get to Pcola. The "NAMI WHAMMY" is probably less common now that vision can be corrected, but I can't imagine they any less exacting than they back in the day.

The bottom line, if you want to fly ...you have to be prepared to serve in whatever capacity Uncle Sam wants to place you. It's not an issue of wasting anyone's time...if you get the WHAMMY, Uncle Sam can find a place to use you !
 
Great food for thought and recommendations in posts above. There is nothing wrong with confirming if you are already ineligible - if you can afford it. To me it's a good investment given your interest. Couple of things...

Not sure if you are already at USNA or applying? Sounds like you want to get some answers before you get too far, or maybe before you commit? My DS wanted the same - below I'll explain what we did to get that assurance as he considered these paths.. If you provide more details on what station you're at here, and answer the questions posed by @Capt MJ , then perhaps more clarifying details can be provided.

1. Not sure of your age or station (in HS, soon to commission or source?) but eyes continue to grow/ change so having Lasik say at age 17 (your post I think said "soon") so too soon is not recommended. Wait, many going down this path have the corrective surgery at a coordinated time of their junior or senior college year is more common. Also ensure you have approval to do this and signed a waiver if going ROTC - and confirm which types are allowed, confirm when you're approved to miss activities while you heal post-op, etc. Big difference here between SA and ROTC - at USNA you'll get lasik paid for and not have to risk recoupment if the surgery gets botched. At ROTC you sign a waiver that says I'll pay back the scholarship if I can't serve after this elective surgery, and the candidate takes all the risk (and pays for the surgery).
2. If you want to know if there are underlying conditions already present that would DQ you, then I recommend getting a full Class 1 flight physical, completed by a team that normally does these for the military. This is what we did with my DS when he was turning 18 as he wanted to be a pilot for the military then airlines/ military and we didn't want to pay for training if he would end up being ineligible in the more advanced tests that come later. fyi, at present he is a commercial pilot and training to earn his wings in the Navy.

Full class 1 workup includes an EKG, lab workup, more detailed physical exam similar to one that you will have in the military and yes one that can DQ you if they find items. It will also include a detailed eye exam and can flag any number of issues that you may be worried about / didn't know you have. See posts from @Lucy who selflessly and sagely provides a cautionary tale some great wisdom about this topic.

You may wish to meet with an ophthalmic surgeon - a top lasik doc to confirm if your eye measurements/ status keep you eligible to get lasik corrective surgery (or not) - again better to know this up front. Some folks have too severe of _____ astigmatism, curvature, retina attachment issue, whatever). Again, find one that has top results and who knows the military standards for your branch.

Marines are first and foremost - Marines. The pilots going to Pensacola NAS first went to TBS and became rifle-persons. so good that you'll want to be a marine whether or not you can fly. Just be aware that like any relationship the marines too determine if you are a good fit for them, despite your interest. DS has a buddy who wanted to switch from NROTC_NO to NROTC-MO - 3.99 GPA, top scores/evals - Marines said Meh no thanks.

OK, that should get you a foundation and let the group know if more details might help you.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
Agree 100% with 'Hoops...there are no guarantees in Navy (USMC) air...even if you could get an exam now, things could change by the time you go through TBS and get to Pcola. The "NAMI WHAMMY" is probably less common now that vision can be corrected, but I can't imagine they any less exacting than they back in the day.

The bottom line, if you want to fly ...you have to be prepared to serve in whatever capacity Uncle Sam wants to place you. It's not an issue of wasting anyone's time...if you get the WHAMMY, Uncle Sam can find a place to use you !
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The NAMI physical in Pcola low stress now. Mids now get full form flight physicals as 2/C if they are slotted for a 1/c aviation cruise or PFP. My NAMI appointment was a short form physical and doc never mentioned my waivers. Eyes, ears, signature, out the door (but it took 5 hours because this is the Navy).

I don’t know of a single NAMI Whammy from ‘23.
 
I'm taking from the OP title, "...do my eye exam or even entire flight medical as a civilian before applying?" to mean they want to know if they have pre-existing DQ concerns that the detailed Class 1 flight physical/ workup/ eye exam will catch before accepting an appt. If this is the case (a couple of us have asked OP to clarify), then finding out in youngster year is certainly better than at P'cola, but that timeframe might be later than this candidate would wish to know.

fyi, NROTC candidates may find out later, in the fall of their commissioning year (if graduating in April/ May), and after their 1/c cruise. Seems almost cruel to have an aviation cruise and service select, to then find out you won't qualify to serve as an aviator or NFO - to mitigate that risk, one can pay for their own class 1 flight physical battery from a team who does these for the military - just data points in case these may help those following along or the OP.
 
OP, you’ve gotten some good advice. It sounds like what you’re looking for is to know whether you currently conform to NAMI’s medical standards for aviation duty. While there is no way you’re getting a flight physical, here’s what I can offer you. The medical standards are publicly available. See:


It’s a meaty document, but it’s actually not difficult for a layman to understand. At the end of the day, a flight physical is very similar to a normal annual physical exam. It’s just that the flight doc is checking whether you have any conditions that would DQ you. If you know your medical history and know the NAMI standards…see what I’m driving at? You may not be able to get an actual flight physical but if you know your health, you can probably figure out whether you would be cleared by NAMI. Don’t take it as gospel but it’s the best estimate you can have right now.
 
NavyHoops said:
I am curious about the answers to Capt MJ’s questions. I think those answers will help.

Overall I cannot see any active duty flight surgeon doing a review unless it’s in an official capacity. They are not going to put their reputation on the line. Not even sure they would be allowed to unless it’s an official physical. Plenty of retired ones who could give their thoughts. Also, some food for thought. I understand you want to fly. But life happens. I had friends medically DQ’d at flight school even after passing their flight physicals. I had a good buddy who couldn’t get over motion sickness. Most drops are not medical related, but academic or performance related. TBS isn’t without its risks either.

How do you explain you want to be a Marine Corps Officer, only if you want to be a pilot? You say you do, but are you willing to ‘risk it’ without that non-guaranteed tag. The Marines, above any other service, want those who want to be officers first and foremost. Marines are passionate about being Marines. We are sort of a weird little cult who love being Marines more than anything else. The Marines are built around our infantry and those on the front lines. Being anything other than that is a supporting element and treated as such. You will lead Marines even as a pilot. You will have non-flying tours.
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So I would be applying as OCC because I already graduated university.

And to answer your question I have wanted to be a Marine since I was a kid because I liked the idea of being somehow connected very closely to the front lines. I feel it is where I perform best. In physically chaotic environments. Obviously, that is easier said than prove here online and outside of the military, but I am willing to accept that challenge if I get the opportunity to prove it the Marine way. I played a lot of sports and always felt the physical was there for me and I would like to continue using as best I can. That's what I like about the Marine Corps. They make you stay in shape and they basically pay you to do it. It doesn't get much better than that if you ask me. And I like being held accountable and not just physically. It makes me better.

Also, if you don't mind, could you say what your friend got DQ'd for at flight school? Maybe message me if you or ok with that.
 
Skipper07 said:
The NAMI physical in Pcola low stress now. Mids now get full form flight physicals as 2/C if they are slotted for a 1/c aviation cruise or PFP. My NAMI appointment was a short form physical and doc never mentioned my waivers. Eyes, ears, signature, out the door (but it took 5 hours because this is the Navy).

I don’t know of a single NAMI Whammy from ‘23.
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I love the enthusiasm but could you clear up some of the lingo there for me? "2/C, 1/c, PFP (Pilot Flight Physical? Just guessing)" I didn't see it in the Acronym list. And where are you in the process? I know you are Navy, but still curious.
 
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@Snow

2/c = second class midshipman or junior
1/c = first class midshipman or senior (aka firstie)
PFP = powered flight program. It is a summer training for rising 1/c that aims to get students their first solo in a piper cherokee.

I graduated and commissioned last May. I am currently in Pensacola waiting for a class date for flight school. I expect to start academics in February and start flying the T-6 trainer by May.
 
Skipper07 said:
@Snow

2/c = second class midshipman or junior
1/c = first class midshipman or senior (aka firstie)
PFP = powered flight program. It is a summer training for rising 1/c that aims to get students their first solo in a piper cherokee.

I graduated and commissioned last May. I am currently in Pensacola waiting for a class date for flight school. I expect to start academics in February and start flying the T-6 trainer by May.
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Thanks. That sounds like a good time!
 
Skipper07 said:
@Snow

2/c = second class midshipman or junior
1/c = first class midshipman or senior (aka firstie)
PFP = powered flight program. It is a summer training for rising 1/c that aims to get students their first solo in a piper cherokee.

I graduated and commissioned last May. I am currently in Pensacola waiting for a class date for flight school. I expect to start academics in February and start flying the T-6 trainer by May.
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DS completed powered flight this summer. Fell in love, enamored with flight in itself.
 
All of my friends who completed PFP loved it. Currently, PFP validates NIFE 2 (the flying portion of preliminary training before primary). This saves PFPers roughly a month in the training pipeline.

Private and commercial pilots who didn’t complete PFP still have the distinct honor of flying the mighty 172 for a few hours before moving on to the T6.
 
Skipper07 said:
All of my friends who completed PFP loved it. Currently, PFP validates NIFE 2 (the flying portion of preliminary training before primary). This saves PFPers roughly a month in the training pipeline.

Private and commercial pilots who didn’t complete PFP still have the distinct honor of flying the mighty 172 for a few hours before moving on to the T6.
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Just for the gentle readers and future potential SNAs/ SNFOs with certs following along, the option of a proficiency check-ride in lieu of completing NIFE 2 was presented to at least some pilots who entered the flight phase of NIFE with their PPL or higher certs. One SNA with PPL took this option, completed the check ride on a Thursday, checked in to process entering physio on Friday, and started Physio on Monday. No time lost.
 
It saves you about a week or so if your proficiency advance a couple flights on NIFE because of prior flight time, not really that much time in the grand scheme of things. You still have to do the checkride at the end, and a couple flights within the previous blocks before that. The downside is you don’t get as many free flight hours for your logbook, and also don’t get as much practice with briefing and doing things “the Navy way” before primary. Not a big deal if you prof advance or not through NIFE. It’s also not a big deal if you have no prior flight time and get to do all of NIFE flight phase. The system is designed to teach someone with 0 prior hours, and you get to learn it “the Navy way” your first time through

PFPers have no choice but to skip all of NIFE flight phase. Doesn’t seem to be too big of a deal either

Heads up, there’s a little bit of a wait at Milton in between graduating NIFE and starting ground school for primary. You’ll stand various watches while waiting. Depending on which squadron you go to, there’s also (at Milton) a wait between the last simulator event and Fam 0/Fam 1 (the first actual T-6 flight). One squadron has like a 2-month wait for this, and they stand watch while waiting. Unsure about situation at Corpus, to my knowledge, they’re moving through faster. There’s a new T-6 syllabus coming soon supposedly too
 
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