Can I vent about acceptance.....

My "almost daughter" graduated a couple of years ago. I call her that as she calls me "dad #2" even though we're not related. She's an amazing young lady, a naval officer, now in training for her follow-on assignment. She struggled...the trimester system is brutal; they don't accept minimal work, and they're quick to recycle folks.

That being said...I see the woman she has become from her experiences at KP...and the naval officer she's becoming...and I am so proud of her, her USMMA education, that I...well...you get the idea.

I've been an ALO for USAFA for 25+ years...I think USMMA is perhaps the easier SA to enter...but probably the toughest to graduate from.

It's not easy...but the rewards of a KP education/experience...what's not to be in awe of?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
One point frequently raised around here is the need for a certain percentage of ensigns to go away every year, as there's no place to put them after a while. They can't all be promoted and more are coming up behind them. It's a pyramid that narrows every service year.
 
There is a statutory cap on endstrength of officers at every rank. The personnel folks have complex models and algorithms to predict retention and loss, based on years of data, along with external factors (“the airlines are hiring,” high civilian unemployment, drivers such as 9/11 aftermath, etc.). Force management tools range from retention bonuses to early retirement actions.
 
Currently a junior, and I had the same problem. For whatever reason, I just cannot take tests. Here are some things that helped:

Khan Academy (free): Helps with CONTENT (not SAT tricks)

SAT Black book ($20 off of Amazon): Helps with TRICKS (super helpful if you read all of it)

Princeton Review SAT Course ($1,300 for the one I took, but there are cheaper ones): Yes, it's expensive but it helped me so much, and I'm so grateful my parents paid for it. It helped me improve by over 300 points in 6 weeks!

And finally, dedication. Once your daughter learns her way around the SAT, she'll have an easier time with it. Practice, practice, practice. I made the SAT a daily task and answered over 10,000 practice problems easily.
If she needs any SAT help or advice, she can always contact me (I know way too many tricks by this point lol). Good luck to her!
 
@MorningMommy as a sophomore your daughter has plenty of time to study her heart out and get an outstanding score on the SAT!
For me at least, getting a good score on the SAT was all about practice and dedication. Without practice, I got a pretty low score and after I studied, I managed to raise it 200 points.
Good luck to her!
 
But she most likely will not get appointed.
As many people have said, service academies are not so out of reach as you might think.
As a homeschooler in Virginia not enrolled in any public school classes, I can not play on school varsity sport teams or participate in any school sponsored activities (JROTC etc). Also, the program I'm enrolled in does not offer any support for AP classes so I never took any.
So just saying, you shouldn't feel so discouraged. I received an appointment to USAFA without any AP classes or participation in school sponsored activities.
 
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Much has changed since my son was nominated and then a plebe. Not sure what state you are from, but that could be either an advantage or not...she is a female so all of the FSA's are looking for quality female candidates - which your daughter sounds like a quality young lady. I just looked at the USMMA admissions page and saw the SAT scores - since it has been a few years since my son applied, does USMMA still accept ACT scores? Do they still super score? Don't just take the SAT - take the ACT as well - IF they still super score, they will take her best scores and use them. She still has some time to improve her test taking skills and scores. Don't discount her grades and extra activities they will help. Best to her and keep your chin up.
 
Is there anybody applying to the Merchant Marine Academy that actually wants to be a merchant marine? Or, is that old fashion?
I am a current student at Northeast Maritime Institute and am awaiting a decision for the class of '24. If accepted I will enter with some limited tonnage deck licenses and an AB ticket. I will likely choose engine at KP if accepted though so that I can hold a 3rd AE license and then accrue sea time to upgrade my deck and hold a 3rd mates unlimited as well.
 
Much has changed since my son was nominated and then a plebe. Not sure what state you are from, but that could be either an advantage or not...she is a female so all of the FSA's are looking for quality female candidates - which your daughter sounds like a quality young lady. I just looked at the USMMA admissions page and saw the SAT scores - since it has been a few years since my son applied, does USMMA still accept ACT scores? Do they still super score? Don't just take the SAT - take the ACT as well - IF they still super score, they will take her best scores and use them. She still has some time to improve her test taking skills and scores. Don't discount her grades and extra activities they will help. Best to her and keep your chin up.
Much has changed since my son was nominated and then a plebe. Not sure what state you are from, but that could be either an advantage or not...she is a female so all of the FSA's are looking for quality female candidates - which your daughter sounds like a quality young lady. I just looked at the USMMA admissions page and saw the SAT scores - since it has been a few years since my son applied, does USMMA still accept ACT scores? Do they still super score? Don't just take the SAT - take the ACT as well - IF they still super score, they will take her best scores and use them. She still has some time to improve her test taking skills and scores. Don't discount her grades and extra activities they will help. Best to her and keep your chin up.
To the applicants/appointed from MD; can you tell me what your SAT or ACT scores are and your extra curricular activities. As my son is a second year applicant and is on HOLD again. He is outstanding academically, etc. ??? USMMA is/has been his first choice all the way. Thank you for any information.
 
I'll probably just get dragged for this post but I feel so discouraged and maybe not a little bitter......maybe someone else will understand......

My daughter is a sophomore.....
She has been in sea cadets for 3 years and is a Petty Officer (her school runs sea cadets so they put in drill time up to 5 hours weekly then community service), is second in command, color guard, things I don't remember the names, ribbons and badges, etc, drills with our coast guard weekly every fall and spring, trains every summer and sails....

She did crew, as a coxswain, now track bc crew and sea cadets interferred, boat building (engineering/construction), sea perch where her team placed second this past week territory competition, (she was team leader)....

She takes honor classes that are available, has a 3.785 cum unweighted is third in her class at the moment (trying for higher), and will have stellar recommendations, will be in honor society junior year and take college classes and needs to join student government bc sea cadet leadership doesn't count enough......

BUT her SAT scores are not great - over 1000 but under 1200. And we have so little saved for college for two kids but make enough that we won't get full aid. She wants to be career Navy. She wants King's point. She is working hard for King's point - we won't stop and she is going to test prep (she has always had an issue with norm referenced tests, low aptitude high learning curve)

But she most likely will not get appointed. Because people who don't want career military are willing to give 5 years for the free tuition so she competes with people who have unbelievable SAT scores. Talk to admission officer - Sea Cadet achievement not worth a whole lot - Why? She is working her but off there, she is showing her commitment..... It feels so bad to see her work so hard across the board to be told its still not enough to be an officer to serve.....

She will still reach for King's Point. She will also look to see what the other maritime academies will give her. But I don't know how much to go in debt bc we have a second child who isn't military interested. Her backup is enlisting. She says she will do college online while on duty and work towards becoming an officer. She is awesome....I call her my superhero.

But why does it have to be so hard for everyone? Why can any little thing disqualify you......I get its because the monetary worth of the education.....I get it rationally - but as a parent watching this it just sucks. She is amazing and wants to serve (and will no matter what....) 35% leave......when you know your cadet never would.....

Any advice other than stop whining or go take a flying leap? Anyone feel overwhelmed or guilty or frustrated?
She's a sophomore and has plenty of time left. Two more years should be plenty of time to improve SAT/ACT scores. No reason to say she likely won't get appointed. Also keep in mind that if she truly wants it and doesn't get in the first time around, she can try again. This is my second year applying, and re-applicants have a much higher chance of getting in than first-timers. Also, as a side note, admissions officers tell you nothing is worth anything. I told them I work as a mechanic, have a great deal of knowledge in the automotive field, and sail regularly, and my officer told me that meant nothing. They just want to push higher test scores so they have an easier distinction to make. If she's planning on test prepping, I'm sure her scores will go up, just as mine did. 2 years is a long time to change those few things the academy wants to see, and if she wants it, I'm sure she'll get it done.
 
I'll probably just get dragged for this post but I feel so discouraged and maybe not a little bitter......maybe someone else will understand......

My daughter is a sophomore.....
She has been in sea cadets for 3 years and is a Petty Officer (her school runs sea cadets so they put in drill time up to 5 hours weekly then community service), is second in command, color guard, things I don't remember the names, ribbons and badges, etc, drills with our coast guard weekly every fall and spring, trains every summer and sails....

She did crew, as a coxswain, now track bc crew and sea cadets interferred, boat building (engineering/construction), sea perch where her team placed second this past week territory competition, (she was team leader)....

She takes honor classes that are available, has a 3.785 cum unweighted is third in her class at the moment (trying for higher), and will have stellar recommendations, will be in honor society junior year and take college classes and needs to join student government bc sea cadet leadership doesn't count enough......

BUT her SAT scores are not great - over 1000 but under 1200. And we have so little saved for college for two kids but make enough that we won't get full aid. She wants to be career Navy. She wants King's point. She is working hard for King's point - we won't stop and she is going to test prep (she has always had an issue with norm referenced tests, low aptitude high learning curve)

But she most likely will not get appointed. Because people who don't want career military are willing to give 5 years for the free tuition so she competes with people who have unbelievable SAT scores. Talk to admission officer - Sea Cadet achievement not worth a whole lot - Why? She is working her but off there, she is showing her commitment..... It feels so bad to see her work so hard across the board to be told its still not enough to be an officer to serve.....

She will still reach for King's Point. She will also look to see what the other maritime academies will give her. But I don't know how much to go in debt bc we have a second child who isn't military interested. Her backup is enlisting. She says she will do college online while on duty and work towards becoming an officer. She is awesome....I call her my superhero.

But why does it have to be so hard for everyone? Why can any little thing disqualify you......I get its because the monetary worth of the education.....I get it rationally - but as a parent watching this it just sucks. She is amazing and wants to serve (and will no matter what....) 35% leave......when you know your cadet never would.....

Any advice other than stop whining or go take a flying leap? Anyone feel overwhelmed or guilty or frustrated?
My son had the same SAT score as you listed and was accepted this year! I know they like to see them retake it and increase scores even if it’s a small increase! And just the act of taking those tests multiple times is something they were looking at too. My son retook the SAT/ACT a total of 7 times! It was not easy but it paid off for him!
 
I understand your frustrations. This is my sons second try. He was on NWL last year and again this. We are from a very competitive State and there are people on here saying it doesn't have anything to do with being Varsity Captain or President of SGA, etc or who you know. ........!!! My son has excelled in all his classes even through losing his father at 15, stayed focused and has the never give up attitude. With that said, I work in the public school sector and I know that people are paid far more then they should and / or get a position when they are not nearly qualified for it; all because who they know. I pray for your daughter's appt. I think as a female, she has a better chance then my son but I we will continue to be optimistic and pray everyday for all underdogs.

Does your son have strong SAT scores? Wishing him luck!
 
Whoa. Time out. Your daughter is only a sophomore? She has plenty of time left to bring up SAT/ACT scores and let the process play out. Most sophomores haven't even thought about taking the SAT or ACT. A lot of improvement will come with maturity as well. So, don't sweat it at this point. Besides, she can work on her math skills and bring that score up over the next 18 months. If you push her too hard, or she pushes herself too hard, it will be counterproductive.

Now - on to other issues - I'm a Blue and Gold Officer for USNA and a Field Admissions Rep for USMMA. So, I have some insight on the process and what the academies are looking for. I'm an '87 USNA grad and retired Marine reserve officer. My oldest daughter is USMMA class of 2020 - wondering if there will even be a graduation ceremony. Yet, she will graduate and be a 3rd mate/deck officer. She plans to sail on her license and absolutely loves KP (as much as anyone can love a service academy).

Academics are an absolute killer at USMMA. I mean - harder than any other school. It might be the easiest SA to get into, but the hardest to graduate from. You have 10 week trimesters to get in what most schools do in 16 weeks. And then there's sea year with two sailing periods (4 months and 8 months) with sea projects that you must stay on top of daily while at sea or you fall too far behind. My daughter's class started with 279 and they're down to 210 - mostly lost due to academic failures. There's no way to catch up if you fail a course, so often times (if the academy wants to keep you) you do a setback to the year behind you and pick up there after a year at home in a local college making up work. There are no summers off (at least at USNA, there will be some summer leave time - about 4 weeks- off). 75% of every class, or more, will sail on their license and take a reserve commission in the Navy. About 15% to 25% commission active duty in the Navy or another branch. USMMA is a trade school that trains you to be a merchant mariner - that's the goal and the mission. The mission is not to commission active duty, though some do as I've stated.

Circling back - Sea Cadets is a great program, but is not weighed heavily at either USNA or USMMA. It just isn't. The schools would rather see the candidate taking more AP courses. But it does offer leadership opportunities if she's not doing sports. If she is doing sports, then focusing on becoming a team captain is a must. And she needs to be involved in other activities like clubs and do a TON of volunteer work - I mean a ton. Community service is weighed heavily these days.

Don't discount NROTC. NROTC is a fantastic way to gain a commission.

Do not think of going to a SA as a way to save on college tuition. That should never be the reason for going to a SA. Never. There is plenty of money out there - especially at small, private colleges regardless of your family situation and ability to pay. If that turns out to be the way she ends up going, that's fine.

Some other points I want to make regarding your original post:
1. Not everyone with high SATs is just looking for a free tuition school. Many, if not all, of those I work with are interested in going because they want to serve.
2. It isn't true that 35% leave. It's just not true. Not sure where you got that info from. USMMA may have the highest attrition, but it's because of academics getting the midshipman and not because they leave on their own accord. USNA has a very high graduation rate - nearly 90%.
3. And just because you think your kid wouldn't quit, doesn't mean that he/she wouldn't. I've seen it happen with those who were 100% all in decide after the summer (plebe summer or Indoc) or after plebe year that they just don't want to be at a SA. It happens. And if it were to happen to your daughter, you would need to support her and not make her feel like a failure.
4. Despite all the hard work, it's a frequent occurrence that a kid is qualified academically, physically, and has a nomination, but there's a medical condition that isn't waiverable that keeps the kid out of a SA. It happens. Be prepared in case it does.

So, encourage her, but make sure the dream of going to a SA is hers and hers alone. You're not the one that's going to be going through the academic, mental, and physical rigor. She will be. Since she's only a sophomore, a lot can change between now and when she applies and/or gets accepted.

Good luck to your daughter and I hope she makes it. But the road to get there is long - especially since she's only a sophomore.
 
Well said!! :thumb:

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
("Almost Dad" to a USNA '16 grad and a USMMA '18 grad)
:thumb:
 
Circling back - Sea Cadets is a great program, but is not weighed heavily at either USNA or USMMA. It just isn't. The schools would rather see the candidate taking more AP courses.
Concur on this, I was a Sea Cadet. leading cadet in my unit, did several cruises on USN ships including 2 weeks on a destroyer and also did 2 weeks at the US Navy Boot Camp in Orlando (yes, the Sea Cadet Program has changed a LOT) but I don't think it helped me get in and really didn't help much after the first week of Plebe Summer.
 
Whoa. Time out. Your daughter is only a sophomore? She has plenty of time left to bring up SAT/ACT scores and let the process play out. Most sophomores haven't even thought about taking the SAT or ACT. A lot of improvement will come with maturity as well. So, don't sweat it at this point. Besides, she can work on her math skills and bring that score up over the next 18 months. If you push her too hard, or she pushes herself too hard, it will be counterproductive.

Now - on to other issues - I'm a Blue and Gold Officer for USNA and a Field Admissions Rep for USMMA. So, I have some insight on the process and what the academies are looking for. I'm an '87 USNA grad and retired Marine reserve officer. My oldest daughter is USMMA class of 2020 - wondering if there will even be a graduation ceremony. Yet, she will graduate and be a 3rd mate/deck officer. She plans to sail on her license and absolutely loves KP (as much as anyone can love a service academy).

Academics are an absolute killer at USMMA. I mean - harder than any other school. It might be the easiest SA to get into, but the hardest to graduate from. You have 10 week trimesters to get in what most schools do in 16 weeks. And then there's sea year with two sailing periods (4 months and 8 months) with sea projects that you must stay on top of daily while at sea or you fall too far behind. My daughter's class started with 279 and they're down to 210 - mostly lost due to academic failures. There's no way to catch up if you fail a course, so often times (if the academy wants to keep you) you do a setback to the year behind you and pick up there after a year at home in a local college making up work. There are no summers off (at least at USNA, there will be some summer leave time - about 4 weeks- off). 75% of every class, or more, will sail on their license and take a reserve commission in the Navy. About 15% to 25% commission active duty in the Navy or another branch. USMMA is a trade school that trains you to be a merchant mariner - that's the goal and the mission. The mission is not to commission active duty, though some do as I've stated.

Circling back - Sea Cadets is a great program, but is not weighed heavily at either USNA or USMMA. It just isn't. The schools would rather see the candidate taking more AP courses. But it does offer leadership opportunities if she's not doing sports. If she is doing sports, then focusing on becoming a team captain is a must. And she needs to be involved in other activities like clubs and do a TON of volunteer work - I mean a ton. Community service is weighed heavily these days.

Don't discount NROTC. NROTC is a fantastic way to gain a commission.

Do not think of going to a SA as a way to save on college tuition. That should never be the reason for going to a SA. Never. There is plenty of money out there - especially at small, private colleges regardless of your family situation and ability to pay. If that turns out to be the way she ends up going, that's fine.

Some other points I want to make regarding your original post:
1. Not everyone with high SATs is just looking for a free tuition school. Many, if not all, of those I work with are interested in going because they want to serve.
2. It isn't true that 35% leave. It's just not true. Not sure where you got that info from. USMMA may have the highest attrition, but it's because of academics getting the midshipman and not because they leave on their own accord. USNA has a very high graduation rate - nearly 90%.
3. And just because you think your kid wouldn't quit, doesn't mean that he/she wouldn't. I've seen it happen with those who were 100% all in decide after the summer (plebe summer or Indoc) or after plebe year that they just don't want to be at a SA. It happens. And if it were to happen to your daughter, you would need to support her and not make her feel like a failure.
4. Despite all the hard work, it's a frequent occurrence that a kid is qualified academically, physically, and has a nomination, but there's a medical condition that isn't waiverable that keeps the kid out of a SA. It happens. Be prepared in case it does.

So, encourage her, but make sure the dream of going to a SA is hers and hers alone. You're not the one that's going to be going through the academic, mental, and physical rigor. She will be. Since she's only a sophomore, a lot can change between now and when she applies and/or gets accepted.

Good luck to your daughter and I hope she makes it. But the road to get there is long - especially since she's only a sophomore.

Excellent reply! Spot on :groupwave:
 
Im not second guessing anyone here - but yes some people do it for the college tuition because they have the scores with no intention of staying in the military

Wow..a lot of negativity in the original post.. A lot of good advice here, especially the admonition to focus on your own (or DD) application and not worry about other applicants.

I'm a USNA grad, and a BGO for almost 20 years now. "Interest and Motivation" is only one factor that BGO's evaluate and comment on-- While it is great when someone has been focused on being a Naval Officer all their life, it really doesn't mean that much coming from a 16-18 year old. I was one of those, at 16-18 years old, all I wanted was a Service Academy and to serve in the military. (My college choices were USAFA, USNA , Citadel and VMI). I thoroughly enjoyed my USNA experience, and my time in the Navy, but fast forward 12 years; things changed and I got out. Meanwhile, I had classmates who came to USNA for a variety of other reasons -- sports, free tuition, etc, an many of them stayed in for 20-30 years and have had very successful careers. I had a number of classmates retire at 20 years old who ended up their careers, and commented that they never thought they would stay in that long, but enjoyed what they were doing so much, or the next tour was too good pass up, and before they knew it they were at 20+ years.

The bottom line, all of the Service Academies want to select the very best people they can get, and mold them into Junior Officers and possibly start the road to Senior Officers. They all know there will be attrition along the way --the Officer Corps in every service is pyramidal (we need a lot ore JO's than Senior Officers, although the Navy seems a bit top heavy these days).
 
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