Candidate with ties to SA versus no ties

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SAHopeful2015

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So, here’s my question, my DS and another candidate from the same HS both received nominations to USMA from the same MOC. I don’t know anything about the other candidate academically, her leadership experience but I know she runs track. However both her parents are West Point graduates (neither one remains in the service). How much will her parents’ past with West Point benefit her over my DS at this point? She has not applied for any other NOMs as far as we know as she started the process late and missed the deadlines for the senator NOMs. My DS hasn’t heard from the senators yet to see if he has any other nominations but we don’t expect any as our area coordinates NOMs to ensure the greatest number of candidates receives nominations. Any insight is helpful. Thank you.
 
As someone with no connections who is doing just fine in the application process, I wouldn’t sweat it. I personally don’t know how ties influence the application process, but I’m sure they ask you if your parents are military or SA graduates for a reason (I was really worried that reporting that my parents never served/didn’t graduate from any Service Academy would hurt my application).

MOCs are advised by Service Academies (my source is a document from 2014) to use a process similar to the WCS, resulting in many systems of points, check marks, etc...

Your real concern is with your DS’s WCS as opposed to the other candidates, and if either meet some sort of extra or diversity need. Both of the candidates could be on the slate, but whoever has the higher WCS has a better chance of admission. There is no way of any of us knowing these numbers. Holding on and waiting is the most we can do.
 
Good Afternoon--Please, please, please do not make yourself crazy worrying about other people's children's chances impacting your child's chances/the competition. There are plenty of kids who receive appointments who go to the same school as other kids who receive appointments. There are children of alumni who get accepted and there are children of alumni who do not get accepted.

My #3 (current cadet) attended a school in which 4 kids received and accepted appointments to the Naval Academy in a single graduating class.
What is important is that you son has received an nomination. If he finishes his packet and becomes 3Q than his chances of being selected for an appointment are fantastic. The odds will be in his favor. Congratulations.

The waiting for news from USMA or any of the academies is hard--it can drag on for months and it gets really crazy in late April--and into May. Just when you think everyone in the country has been appointed, you learn that appointments are still in play and the class is not yet finished being built. (i.e. @onepercenter2021 's girl thought she was going to prep school and got into USMA after the notification deadline, my kid had silence for the entire application process and received a big fat envelope without any fanfare or call from the congressman in late April, there are many other stories like this).

We have to be strong and calm for our kids--and help them work on their other applications--and celebrate the receipt of that Army ROTC scholarship like it is the GIANT prize that it is. It is a marathon, not a sprint.
 
DrMom said:
Good Afternoon--Please, please, please do not make yourself crazy worrying about other people's children's chances impacting your child's chances/the competition. There are plenty of kids who receive appointments who go to the same school as other kids who receive appointments. There are children of alumni who get accepted and there are children of alumni who do not get accepted.

My #3 (current cadet) attended a school in which 4 kids received and accepted appointments to the Naval Academy in a single graduating class.
What is important is that you son has received an nomination. If he finishes his packet and becomes 3Q than his chances of being selected for an appointment are fantastic. The odds will be in his favor. Congratulations.

The waiting for news from USMA or any of the academies is hard--it can drag on for months and it gets really crazy in late April--and into May. Just when you think everyone in the country has been appointed, you learn that appointments are still in play and the class is not yet finished being built. (i.e. @onepercenter2021 's girl thought she was going to prep school and got into USMA after the notification deadline, my kid had silence for the entire application process and received a big fat envelope without any fanfare or call from the congressman in late April, there are many other stories like this).

We have to be strong and calm for our kids--and help them work on their other applications--and celebrate the receipt of that Army ROTC scholarship like it is the GIANT prize that it is. It is a marathon, not a sprint.
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I second, third, and quadruple what DrMom said. My DD had absolutely no ties to USMA and was on a rollercoaster ride the entire time. It may seem that there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to the decision process. Just when you think you have it figured out, the Army changes it up! "Needs of the Army".
 
SAHopeful2015 said:
So, here’s my question, my DS and another candidate from the same HS both received nominations to USMA from the same MOC. I don’t know anything about the other candidate academically, her leadership experience but I know she runs track. However both her parents are West Point graduates (neither one remains in the service). How much will her parents’ past with West Point benefit her over my DS at this point? She has not applied for any other NOMs as far as we know as she started the process late and missed the deadlines for the senator NOMs. My DS hasn’t heard from the senators yet to see if he has any other nominations but we don’t expect any as our area coordinates NOMs to ensure the greatest number of candidates receives nominations. Any insight is helpful. Thank you.
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USMA ranks candidates by WCS score and there is no input for legacy in that calculation. If a MOC submits an unranked slate, USMA will rank the slate by WCS score. In a ranked slate the MOC determines the criteria, which may not coincide with USMA's, but the dominant factor with respect to appointments is still WCS.

The advantage a legacy has is in early preparation. By the time many candidates become interested in USMA the WCS score is pretty well set. A legacy might be guided in a direction in seventh or eighth grade that will lead to increased points later.
 
Of course, if any of you read the results of the recent research study on families and job interests. The children of military officer mothers are almost 300 times more likely to become military officers.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...inherit-from-your-mother-and-father.html?_r=0

So, being a legacy might not make the difference but rather a lifetime of preparation in terms of norms and beliefs about community and national service, physical fitness, leadership, and activities.
 
Thank you all for the input and I will try to take your advice.... it appears as though I am a little more impatient than my DS is as this waiting doesn't seem to be bothering him. Perhaps it's because he has his "plan B" already figured out (haven't paid the deposit or anything yet). Perhaps it's because this is a decision of his (applying to the service academies) that I have been struggling with and have finally come around to accepting the fact he may actually go that has me all in a tizzy. When this process first started, I never thought he would even make it this far so now that he is as far as he is, I'm to the point I will actually be very disappointed for him if he doesn't make it as he really wants this more than anything I have seen him want. It's strange how one's emotions can be all over the place and not being able to do anything but 'wait' is really unnerving. Although, I know we aren't the only ones going through this so, time to just chill and realize there is nothing we can do at this point. Thanks again!
 
Good luck, SAHopeful. I think the waiting and uncertainty can be much harder on us parents.
 
The fact my DS is my first and my husband and I do not have any direct military experience (my brother-in-law was in the Navy and nephew was in Air Force - both enlisted) doesn't help matters. Brother-in-law's service was over before we really met and my nephew just got out of the AF a little over a year ago and we don't live near him so we didn't experience the daily "ups and downs" that come with military life etc. It's stressful enough having your first child go away to college but not even knowing where he will be is a little unnerving for me. Knowing I can't do anything about it though should allow me to relax a bit and just try to enjoy the next several months as they likely will go by quicker than expected.
 
jl123 said:
SAHopeful2015 said:
So, here’s my question, my DS and another candidate from the same HS both received nominations to USMA from the same MOC. I don’t know anything about the other candidate academically, her leadership experience but I know she runs track. However both her parents are West Point graduates (neither one remains in the service). How much will her parents’ past with West Point benefit her over my DS at this point? She has not applied for any other NOMs as far as we know as she started the process late and missed the deadlines for the senator NOMs. My DS hasn’t heard from the senators yet to see if he has any other nominations but we don’t expect any as our area coordinates NOMs to ensure the greatest number of candidates receives nominations. Any insight is helpful. Thank you.
Click to expand...
USMA ranks candidates by WCS score and there is no input for legacy in that calculation. If a MOC submits an unranked slate, USMA will rank the slate by WCS score. In a ranked slate the MOC determines the criteria, which may not coincide with USMA's, but the dominant factor with respect to appointments is still WCS.

The advantage a legacy has is in early preparation. By the time many candidates become interested in USMA the WCS score is pretty well set. A legacy might be guided in a direction in seventh or eighth grade that will lead to increased points later.
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I'm a little surprised that they don't give at least some small additional merit toward children of academy grads. I read a research paper years ago (may have been an old RAND) that was showed indicators that resulted in the highest statistical likelihood of a cadet graduating from the academy. The two groups that had shown the highest graduation rates at the academy were children of academy grads and Eagle Scouts.
 
I don't think any of us know what they use knowledge of candidate military lineage for.

We may have theories, but only USMA Admissions knows. I don't think they would just ask us for some information pertaining to our family histories and not use it for anything. I could be wrong.
 
USMAROTCFamily said:
I'm a little surprised that they don't give at least some small additional merit toward children of academy grads. I read a research paper years ago (may have been an old RAND) that was showed indicators that resulted in the highest statistical likelihood of a cadet graduating from the academy. The two groups that had shown the highest graduation rates at the academy were children of academy grads and Eagle Scouts.
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Im glad they don't! My DD wouldn't be there then, and she is just as hard working as any. As a matter of fact, she has to work even harder to learn the ins and outs of the military since she had no teaching growing up. Thankfully she ( and us parents) have amazing examples to learn from like @DrMom, @USMA1994, and many others!
 
Public institution - taxpayer funded. It would be politically indefensible to give legacies an objective advantage. University of California system is the same - no legacy advantage. Some public schools, UVA for example, do give advantage to legacies.

But admissions officers are human and it is possible subjective bias enters the process consciously or subconsciously. That is one of the reasons that after WCS is calculated by the candidate's RC, it must be checked for accuracy by another RC.
 
Thanks @onepercenter2021 This time of year is so tedious and exciting...the long wait for notification. However, there may be a first batch of BFEs in the next two or three weeks...which is awesome news for some and makes the waiting harder for others. I think the lesson is to keep faith. Faith in your child, faith in the system.
 
I love this post by DrMom. And I couldn’t agree more. Military family produce military. Dr family produce doctors. Lawyer family produce lawyers. Banker family produce bankers. Strong correlation there! Not 100% but better than hit and miss! Environment is a key ingredient.
 
^^ That was essentially what the OP was asking. Whether someone from a military family is more likely to apply is a different question. None of us work in admissions to provide a definitive answer to how admissions might consider that.
 
And my 2 cents is I met a WP Grad now a captain at a function at Princeton Univ last year for while he is doing his masters. He is not just an academic saw significant combat and was in a History Channel War Fighter episode. He , DS and I spoke for a while and he said nothing you can do about nepotism it exists so just deal with it. Example His Wife is WP Grad, Both her parents WP Grads, Her Grad Father WP Grad, Her Sister WP Grad get the picture. So its everywhere so just move past it and you will be fine.
 
Patriot4Life said:
I love this post by DrMom. And I couldn’t agree more. Military family produce military. Dr family produce doctors. Lawyer family produce lawyers. Banker family produce bankers. Strong correlation there! Not 100% but better than hit and miss! Environment is a key ingredient.
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I guess my kids are in trouble.
 
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