Car insurance

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by runnergirl, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. Badfinger

    Badfinger Member

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    From above you can see every company does provide some relief and all are a bit different. I asked this question of our insurance company as was basically told as in one of the above posts above related to the permissive driver coverage. What has not been mentioned above is that when the cadet finally buys auto insurance on his/her own, if they don't already have insurance, they could be charged a steep surcharge for the first year or two (this was not USAA). So parents, if you drop them, it could be a good idea to add them back on your policy a couple months before they go on their own.
     
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  2. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    Cadets and mids at the 5 SAs are eligible for all USAA products on the day they start at their SA. USAA knows they don't drive much, don't commute daily to off-campus housing, and if parked on-base/post/Yard, the cars are relatively safe. USAA quotes them accordingly, as they are different from a U-MD AFROTC student a few counties away from Annapolis. Many mids and cadets get their own policies when they rate cars, and USAA is worth checking. The key is identifying as a Service Academy midshipman or cadet, not "attending college in MD/NY/CT/CO." If they already have USAA bank accounts and the USAA SA personal property property policy, they may get a multi-product discount.

    Note: I used to work for them.
     
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  3. golfindad

    golfindad Member

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    agree with xcmum and Capt. MJ. Couple of things. With USAA, when you call into the 800 number, you get a call center, and some of that is outsourced I believe. They may not know what the exact codes are that are needed. Ask to talk to underwriting, or, someone in San Antonio. After some persistence, you will find someone who will be able to identify the code of the Academy being attended. They keep the midshipman/cadet on the policy, so there is no gap in coverage which could effect pricing once graduation occurs. And, like indicated, he is on a non-operator status, but continues with coverage. USAA explains that they do this as a courtesy for the midshipman/cadets, but, coverage continues. If they tell you something different, speak to someone else, because if they say this is not the case, they are wrong. The midshipman/cadet is not charged. Coverage is given during leave, etc. USAA asked that they be notified when a change of status occurs--i.e. graduation. they don't need to be notified during Christmas or Summer etc. You may need to explain USAA's policies to USAA in order for them to figure out where to go and what they are to do. Like I said, you may need to work your way up the chain until you have someone who understands what their offers are.

    I have heard other companies offer similar things, but do not know about them.
     
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  4. golfindad

    golfindad Member

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    one more thing, just fyi, usaa membership will run down, not up. I.e., parent has it, so you have it, so child/midshipman has it. It does not run the other way, i.e. midshipman has it, so will parents? going backwards, from child to parent, doesn't work.
     
  5. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    Ask for it to be "elevated to a supervisor." It is not an away at college discount. The phone rep just needs to look at their screen drop-downs at Service Academy. They do training and send reminders every year, but there is always the newbie phone rep who is not familiar with Service Academies in any aspect.
     
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  6. Capri120

    Capri120 Parent

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    Capt MJ, Thank you soooo much for this last information.

    Earlier today, I contacted USAA and the representative did exactly what you said and had me add my DD back to our policy as an operator away at college, saying she would NOT be covered when home on breaks if she was listed as a "non-operator".

    However, after reading your response above, I just got off the phone with USAA, a different rep, and she looked up the "service academy cadet" letter, and, as you said, DD is covered when driving our vehicles at home as long as she is a cadet and returning back to the Academy after the official breaks. Just saved me the extra $250/year. So, as long as she does not have her own car at the Academy (another year and a half min), she is covered under our car coverage policies when home.

    All others definitely take Capt MJ's advise if you have USAA and ensure the rep looks up the rules as they apply to service academy cadets.

    Thank you again.
     
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  7. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ 10-Year Member

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    You are most welcome.
     
  8. jebdad

    jebdad 5-Year Member

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    To clarify, this is not some special USAA perk. All carriers can and should make this change for you. All states have different laws, but your child no longer lives in your household. They are no longer your dependent. When they come home to visit, it is no different than Aunt Margaret coming for a visit and borrowing your car. Insurance follows the car and anyone with permission is a covered driver. All carriers should treat the situation this way. Not saying they will, but it is no different than junior moving out of the house. They are no longer on your policy and should no longer trigger a premium impact.

    Note also, you should talk to your agent about this as insurance laws differ by state. (Disclaimer :) )

    Also, as mentioned before, junior does not have any excess coverage provided by your policy if they drive someone else's car. This is where a separate policy or named non owner coverage comes into play.
     
  9. madhttr

    madhttr AROTC Dad

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    As stated, every company is different an state laws vary, but this is a good point. From an underwriting standpoint if they are not currently named on a policy when they graduate and go to insure a car on their own they will most likely be treated the same as someone who is previously uninsured and put into a high risk pool. While taking them completely off the policy may seem to make sense, it's worth comparing that with the cost of the "away at college discount" as this would address both the insurance when graduating issue and the excess coverage while driving someone else's car at college issue.
     
  10. Capri120

    Capri120 Parent

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    With USAA, DD is not off the policy, just listed as a non- operator. So, she is still on an auto insurance policy.

    She also has her own personal property insurance to cover her computers and other valuables at the Academy through USAA.
     
  11. Capri120

    Capri120 Parent

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    As mentioned above, auto insurance is for the car, so borrowed cars have a permissive driver clause, at least USAA's do
     
  12. golfindad

    golfindad Member

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    Capri is correct. USAA's SA code, puts the student on non-operator, has no charge, but, does not "delete" them from the policy, so when they come out, they have the insurance history
     
  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Just a little note for those who think they should keep their kid on their insurance. This is common when kids go off to college. Parents keep their kid on their insurance. There are a lot of Insurance Salesmen who will tell you that because your kid is in college, they are still your responsibility and therefor you need them on your insurance. Most times, this is correct.

    HOWEVER...... on this forum, you have to realize something. "Your Son or Daughter; is NOT OFF TO COLLEGE". No matter what you want to believe, your son/daughter has JOINED THE MILITARY. Something else a lot of parents don't understand is; your son/daughter at the academy; even if they are still 17 years old; are EMANCIPATED ADULTS. They are NOT your DEPENDENTS any longer. They don't need your permission for anything. Any information you receive from the military is because your son/daughter ALLOWED it.

    I bring this up so you can consider your son/daughter the same as the parent who's kid graduated high school, got a job, and moved into their own apartment. They are 100% independent. So, for insurance purposes, there is no reason to pay extra to have them on your insurance. This is something an insurance agent will try and con you into. Either to charge you more; or because they don't understand that the academy is NOT THE SAME as "Going off to College at the University of Whereverthehell". Your son/daughter "Joined the military". You can't claim them on your taxes. (Except for the first 6 months prior to going to BCT). So, as long as your insurance allows you to LOAN your car out to a friend; it will allow you to LOAN your car to your son/daughter when they are on vacation.

    Mind you, the key word is LOAN. Sometimes; I even did this; I gave my son a car to use at the academy for his C2C and C1C years. It was STILL MY CAR. I owned it. But because my son was going to use the car on a REGULAR BASIS; not LOANED for a few days on christmas vacation, spring vacation, summer vacation, etc. but FULL TIME; then I did need to put him on my insurance. But that's because the car was MINE. If I had GIVEN him the car, and it was titled in his name, he would have gotten insurance on his own. And the others are correct; if he uses USAA (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED); they are all about the military. They understand and give good rates.

    So... REMEMBER:
    1. If you are just going to let your son/daughter borrow the car when they are home visiting; you don't need to pay extra for them to be on your insurance. Load it to them, just like you'd loan it to anyone else. (Check your policy for coverage rules)
    2. If you are going to let little Johnny or Janie take your car to the academy in their Junior/Senior year, but YOU STILL OWN THE CAR; then YES, you want them on the insurance because they are using the car on a regular basis.
    3. If you GIVE/SELL little Johnny/Janie a car; or they buy their own car from someone else; then the insurance is totally their responsibility. You have nothing to do with that. (Recommend highly USAA).
    4. Little Johnny/Janie did NOT GO OFF TO COLLEGE!!! They JOINED the MILITARY. They are an independent adult with not dependency to you at all.
     
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  14. madhttr

    madhttr AROTC Dad

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    Good clarifications: best practice seems to be leave them on as a "non-operator" or have their own Non-Owner policy rather than removing them from the policy entirely if going that route. This will help them when they go to get insurance on their own. And yes, borrowing someone else's car would be covered under the permissive use clause, but in that case you are depending on the car owner to maintain insurance at appropriate levels. If there is a loss and the car owner has let their policy lapse, the borrower may end up with no coverage if they are not listed as an operator on another policy that would provide excess coverage. Another risk is if the car owner has minimum liability limits and the loss involves multiple vehicles, serious bodily injuries, a $100K luxury vehicle, or a fully-loaded semi truck, there may not be enough coverage to pay for all losses. Just something to keep in mind when borrowing someone else's car.

    For what it's worth, from my perspective of 20 years working for other insurance companies, USAA deserves their reputation of top-notch service and is one of the few I would consider switching to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  15. KTMDad

    KTMDad Member

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    Here is another question about Cadet insurance: Our son's Cadet friend borrowed an upperclassman's car and slid into a snow bank on an icy road (about $3k in damage). The owner of the vehicle doesn't want to make an insurance claim as they said it will raise their insurance rates. Does anyone have experience with this? It was our belief that the driver of the vehicle would receive a "point" for the accident but the owner of the vehicle would not see a potential increase in insurance rates due to an accident the owner was not involved in.
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp 10-Year Member

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    Depends on the insurance company as far as rate increases go. As for points to the driver, that too depends on the jurisdiction. I've seen many accidents where no one got points. That depends if the police claim there was fault and if it was avoidable. A driver t-boned my wife in her mini van. Police said because of weather, it was unavoidable and the no one received a point. There's such things as no fault insurance for those who don't want to buy full coverage. Depends on the insurance company what is offered. Just like uninsured motorist insurance. Insurance companies sell a lot of stuff. Mostly stuff you don't need or want, but they sell it.
     
  17. madhttr

    madhttr AROTC Dad

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    I think this would vary from company to company. It's very difficult to get an answer because insurance companies must avoid any appearance of telling someone they shouldn't turn in a claim. If you call Claims they can only tell you to turn in the claim and they'll handle it. They can't comment on the underwriting consequences and Underwriting usually resists commenting on hypothetical scenarios. An agent can sometimes answer these "asking for a friend" scenarios before a claim is turned in but companies have much more complex underwriting models than they used to, so it's not always clear.

    But it does underscore the issues with driving someone else's car or letting someone drive your car.
     
  18. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Moderator 5-Year Member

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    Agree with Madhttr. The insurance company can violate the law but discouraging a claim.

    Some claims involving black ice or hitting an animal (like a deer) are not surchargeable as they are considered unavoidable.

    In some states, the surcharge stays on the driver within the household, and if it was an non-household driver who used the upperclassman's car with permission, there really is no one to surcharge.

    So I doubt that the owner will be surcharged on renewal. But I can only speak for California underwriting guidelines at one insurance company.
     
  19. KTMDad

    KTMDad Member

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    Does anyone know or have experience with how USAA (as this seems to be the preferred insurance company for Cadets) handles these issues (a Cadet borrowing another Cadet's car and getting into an accident, and if the owner's rate will increase due to this type of claim)?
     
  20. BobbyW123

    BobbyW123 Banned

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    Take it from a pro; car insurance isn't worth it