Career Starter ROTC

Phyzix

5-Year Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2014
Messages
77
Good afternoon everyone,

I was unsure of what forum to post this on being that it's somewhat of a financial question. I'm an upcoming AS400 in AFROTC and of course, am contracted. I'm in the process of opening a USAA account. I just have a few questions and would like your inputs.

I have student loans. I am currently working part time but it is not enough to pay off my housing and all other necessities. I'm around $16K debt @ ~ 4.9%

Should I take out my $25K career starter loan and pay off my student loans with it, given it's @ ~ 2.99%?

Lastly, if I do take out the loan, do I need to inform cadre?

Thank you for your time.
 
The cadre will have to sign off on paperwork for the USAA loan. You can take it now, but you also need to really think about doing this from other aspects.

Your question poses so many other thoughts. Let's say you use that 16K for the debt, that leaves you with 9K to:
1. Move to your 1st duty station. You have to pay it 1st and they will pay it back (travel pay), but it could takes 6 weeks to get that money
~ DS arrived 10/1 got reimbursed 11/5
2. Get to your 1st station. Do you have the money to pay the deposits for your "real" 1st home? IE rent deposits, utility deposits, cable, etc. Not including food, pots, pans, sheets, etc.
~ I get you live off base, so did my DS. It still cost him a pretty penny as soon as he got there, and that is living on base because he went to UPT. You will have to buy the basics all over again...milk, eggs, butter, toilet paper, aluminum foil, plastic baggies, etc, etc. All before you buy 1 loaf of bred or a frozen pizza.
3. Will you need a new/newer car? If so, are you going to use some of that 9K to pay the deposit? If yes, see #1 and 2. If not than instead of having 16K in debt, any car company will see you as having 25K in debt.

Is it smart to take it and start paying off your college loan early using the starter loan? Yes, impo. However, you have to really ask yourself whether you will slowly eat through the remaining 9K over the next year, leaving you with no money to move and set up your 1st career home or buy a car? Or even most importantly money to survive between the time your report and get your 1st paycheck.

Also, read that paperwork very closely...if you separate prior to 4 yrs of ADAF they can jack that rate to 20 something plus interest rate.

Good luck
 
Good comments from Pima. Not sure how student load repayment works these days, but one thing to consider is a large lump sum payment without fully paying off the loan, reducing the total amount of interest payments and probably the term as well. It should still leave you cash for other things. You would need to confirm my surmise as (stated earlier) I'm not certain how college loan repayment works these days.

DS paid of his entire college loan debt with his starter loan, but his was only $7,500 and he already had a damned good vehicle. He also set up Roth IRA with a portion of the starter loan.
 
The cadre will have to sign off on paperwork for the USAA loan. You can take it now, but you also need to really think about doing this from other aspects.

Your question poses so many other thoughts. Let's say you use that 16K for the debt, that leaves you with 9K to:
1. Move to your 1st duty station. You have to pay it 1st and they will pay it back (travel pay), but it could takes 6 weeks to get that money
~ DS arrived 10/1 got reimbursed 11/5
2. Get to your 1st station. Do you have the money to pay the deposits for your "real" 1st home? IE rent deposits, utility deposits, cable, etc. Not including food, pots, pans, sheets, etc.
~ I get you live off base, so did my DS. It still cost him a pretty penny as soon as he got there, and that is living on base because he went to UPT. You will have to buy the basics all over again...milk, eggs, butter, toilet paper, aluminum foil, plastic baggies, etc, etc. All before you buy 1 loaf of bred or a frozen pizza.
3. Will you need a new/newer car? If so, are you going to use some of that 9K to pay the deposit? If yes, see #1 and 2. If not than instead of having 16K in debt, any car company will see you as having 25K in debt.

Is it smart to take it and start paying off your college loan early using the starter loan? Yes, impo. However, you have to really ask yourself whether you will slowly eat through the remaining 9K over the next year, leaving you with no money to move and set up your 1st career home or buy a car? Or even most importantly money to survive between the time your report and get your 1st paycheck.

Also, read that paperwork very closely...if you separate prior to 4 yrs of ADAF they can jack that rate to 20 something plus interest rate.

Good luck

Thanks for your input Pima. I'm still young and inexperienced so it's good to see what others have to say!

I'll take more time with figuring out what to do with it. I was thinking it was pretty smart but didn't consider the other things as well. Thank you for the advice.
 
Our DS was like Kinnem's DS. He immediately invested 5K into a ROTH IRA. The reason why is from a long run investment aspect. The stock market historically will return @12% annually. Thus, if you do the math, and use a chunk to pay down the principal for the student loans, but invest 5K, than your student loan debt is manageable, plus you are making money.
~ IE pay 11K off on the loan, and place 5K in the Roth. Same 16K amount. The IRA is making 12%. Now you have 5K left on the loan at @5%, however, that IRA is making 12%. In essence it is pure math. Yes, if you paid the entire loan off you would have it at 3%, but nothing invested. Whereas, in this scenario, you are still making @7% on the IRA investment long run.

Run a spread sheet of if I take this now in the full 25K and pay off the 16K, leaving you only 9K for you to truly start your career, where will that leave you. Unfortunately too many kids impo do not think about how expensive it will be for that 1st PCS. Also be realistic about life after commissioning. 90% of cadets will have 3-9 months waiting for their RNLTD to their 1st assignment. What will you do during that time?
 
The OIC of your ROTC program will have to sign the loan paperwork verifying that you are a cadet in good standing and will commission. Excellent advice about immediately starting a ROTH IRA. I always tell my Cadets and Soldiers to open one as soon as possible. You don't want to miss out on the early years. Compound interest is a wonderful thing. You will get more bang for the buck by investing some of the loan into a mutual fund. Vanguard and Fidelity have very good index funds.

If you are about $16K in debt in student loans then you would probably have to pay a little less than $200 month to pay it off as you have 10 yrs. You can easily pay the loan off once you are on active duty. Don't break the bank while you are still in college as money is tight for you now.
 
Careful about the wording on the stock market's rate of return or you'll have a disappointed cadet looking at his first year's returns. 12% is the historical average annual return of the S&P 500 over an extended period. Unless the cadet is lucky, he won't be seeing a 12% rate of return every year. And even the 12% average is tricky. For instance, from 2000 to 2017 the average annual rate of return was 7%, and in 2015 the annual rate of return was under 2%.
The other aspect he needs to remember about investing in a ROTH IRA with the USAA Starter funds is that while he probably (nothing is a given in the stock market) will get a higher return from the IRA investment, he will be paying off the loan from current income.
I'd also consider investing it outside of a ROTH in order to save up for a big purchase like the down payment on a home. He'll have a very good retirement package from the military, so doesn't necessarily need to add to it. And being able to put a large down payment for a home will save in monthly payments.
In any event, the Starter Loan offers good options for cadets.
 
+1 @unkown1961
For those who are risk averse, take note of years 2000, 2001, 2002 and of course 2008. Of course they came back strong afterwards, but volatility is part of the game in equities.


S&P 500 Annual Total Return Historical Data

Data for this Date Range

Dec. 31, 2018 2.02%
Dec. 31, 2017 21.83%
Dec. 31, 2016 11.96%
Dec. 31, 2015 1.38%
Dec. 31, 2014 13.69%
Dec. 31, 2013 32.39%
Dec. 31, 2012 16.00%
Dec. 31, 2011 2.11%
Dec. 31, 2010 15.06%
Dec. 31, 2009 26.46%
Dec. 31, 2008 -37.00%
Dec. 31, 2007 5.49%
Dec. 31, 2006 15.79%
Dec. 31, 2005 4.91%
Dec. 31, 2004 10.88%
Dec. 31, 2003 28.68%

Dec. 31, 2002 -22.10%
Dec. 31, 2001 -11.89%
Dec. 31, 2000 -9.10%
Dec. 31, 1999 21.04%
Dec. 31, 1998 28.58%
Dec. 31, 1997 33.36%
Dec. 31, 1996 22.96%
Dec. 31, 1995 37.58%
Dec. 31, 1994 1.32%
Dec. 31, 1993 10.08%
Dec. 31, 1992 7.62%
Dec. 31, 1991 30.47%
Dec. 31, 1990 -3.10%
Dec. 31, 1989 31.69%
Dec. 31, 1988 16.61%

Source: https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_500_total_return_annual
Retrieved 6/22/2018
 
Before you pay off student loans with a different loan, keep in mind that the student loan offers some advantages that the starter loan doesn't.

First, the interest is tax deductible. Second, student loans may be eligible for forbearance, deferment, or forgiveness under certain circumstances. The rate is a bit higher than the starter loan, but if you separate from the service prior to paying it off, I believe the rate jumps. No one thinks that will happen, but what if you're injured? Just some other things to think about.
 
Careful about the wording on the stock market's rate of return or you'll have a disappointed cadet looking at his first year's returns. 12% is the historical average annual return of the S&P 500 over an extended period. Unless the cadet is lucky, he won't be seeing a 12% rate of return every year. And even the 12% average is tricky. For instance, from 2000 to 2017 the average annual rate of return was 7%, and in 2015 the annual rate of return was under 2%.
The other aspect he needs to remember about investing in a ROTH IRA with the USAA Starter funds is that while he probably (nothing is a given in the stock market) will get a higher return from the IRA investment, he will be paying off the loan from current income.
I'd also consider investing it outside of a ROTH in order to save up for a big purchase like the down payment on a home. He'll have a very good retirement package from the military, so doesn't necessarily need to add to it. And being able to put a large down payment for a home will save in monthly payments.
In any event, the Starter Loan offers good options for cadets.

Let me clarify. I am saying that 12% is the avg over years, not short term. The career starter loan is 4 yrs repayment.
So let's look at 2015-2018. The starter loan that needs to be repaid within 4 yrs is at 2.99 int. rate, however that IRA (not including tax benefits) would be a 9.3% growth. Mathematically that says to me 6% to their advantage investing over those 4 yrs.
~ My DS commissioned 2012. His avg growth between 2012 and 2016 when his starter loan was being paid off avg. 15,87%. IOWS, he was making almost 13% by using his starter loan to invest (15.87% growth for his 5K IRA - 2.99 USAA starter int rate_

I am not trying to get into an argument. I am just trying to illustrate that since the starter loan is 4 yrs. if you avg it out, from stock market perspective it is a better ROI.

As far as the deposit for a home, military members have the ability to take a VA loan with 1% down (1st time, which they can roll in all closing costs). They do not need to worry about PMI or doing an 80/10/10. Most military officers typically do a very unique thing compared to the avg home buyer. They do not ask how much can they borrow? They ask the realtor to back it out and say this is my BAH. how much can I get for that?
~ Trust me I was a realtor for a very long time, and that was how they worked it. Even if they had money to drop down, they didn't up their home price. They kept it at their rank BAH, or maybe the next higher rank because they knew this is not their final home, it was their 3 yr or 4 yr at best home.
~~ Bullet and I used the VA for our 1st home. We invested our tax returns as a home owner over the 3 yrs into a money market. Took that money and parlayed it into our next home using a conventional loan. Sold that home, and parlayed those returns into our next (deposit)...so on and so forth for 5 homes. In 20 yrs we never paid PMI.

Again, I am not trying to get into an argument. I am just saying that if you used the numbers posted by AROTC-dad, it is really hard to say not invest in an IRA from a long term aspect. 5K invested as a 22 yo will be a lot by the time they are 42 when they retire from the military.
~ Heck, let's remember for ROTC their release date is tied to their EAD, which is most likely 5 yrs from commissioning, not 4. So even again, if you use AROTC-dad's info the % rises.
Also, as an AF military spouse I can tell you that every base we ever lived at, you knew what rank they were when they said what development they lived in. No lie. No exaggeration. It is still true, at least for my DS. His neighborhood is filled with young O2/3s. Why? Because it is in the best school district, it is close to base, the mtg is at their BAH rate, etc. etc. etc.

We are probably now killing phyzix with all this info. However, we are at least he now is getting a new view on why or why not to use the 16K for his student debt.

Phyzix,
Personally, I still stand by my earlier posts. Do you need a car to start your career? How will you pay for it if you already have 16K in debt? Will you use some of that remaining 9K for a deposit for the car? If so, than do you realize you are adding more debt, even if the car is 20K? Do you have furniture. household items (pots, pans, dishes. linens, etc) to start your new life? Will you have enough money to pay the deposits if you must live off base (rent is typically 1st and last + utilities)? Will you have enough money to PCS and wait for that 1st paycheck while you buy food, pay for cable, pay for rent while you wait for them to catch up on your pay?
CAN YOU SWEAR that the 9K you don't need to pay your debt off will not be blown/whittled away during your sr yr because now you see it as FREE MONEY?

I am sorry if we have confused you more, but if we have than I hope your eyes are more opened to the finesse issues of taking on debt.
 
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Careful about the wording on the stock market's rate of return or you'll have a disappointed cadet looking at his first year's returns. 12% is the historical average annual return of the S&P 500 over an extended period. Unless the cadet is lucky, he won't be seeing a 12% rate of return every year. And even the 12% average is tricky. For instance, from 2000 to 2017 the average annual rate of return was 7%, and in 2015 the annual rate of return was under 2%.
The other aspect he needs to remember about investing in a ROTH IRA with the USAA Starter funds is that while he probably (nothing is a given in the stock market) will get a higher return from the IRA investment, he will be paying off the loan from current income.
I'd also consider investing it outside of a ROTH in order to save up for a big purchase like the down payment on a home. He'll have a very good retirement package from the military, so doesn't necessarily need to add to it. And being able to put a large down payment for a home will save in monthly payments.
In any event, the Starter Loan offers good options for cadets.

Let me clarify. I am saying that 12% is the avg over years, not short term. The career starter loan is 4 yrs repayment.
So let's look at 2015-2018. The starter loan that needs to be repaid within 4 yrs is at 2.99 int. rate, however that IRA (not including tax benefits) would be a 9.3% growth. Mathematically that says to me 6% to their advantage investing over those 4 yrs.
~ My DS commissioned 2012. His avg growth between 2012 and 2016 when his starter loan was being paid off avg. 15,87%. IOWS, he was making almost 13% by using his starter loan to invest (15.87% growth for his 5K IRA - 2.99 USAA starter int rate_

I am not trying to get into an argument. I am just trying to illustrate that since the starter loan is 4 yrs. if you avg it out, from stock market perspective it is a better ROI.

As far as the deposit for a home, military members have the ability to take a VA loan with 1% down (1st time, which they can roll in all closing costs). They do not need to worry about PMI or doing an 80/10/10. Most military officers typically do a very unique thing compared to the avg home buyer. They do not ask how much can they borrow? They ask the realtor to back it out and say this is my BAH. how much can I get for that?
~ Trust me I was a realtor for a very long time, and that was how they worked it. Even if they had money to drop down, they didn't up their home price. They kept it at their rank BAH, or maybe the next higher rank because they knew this is not their final home, it was their 3 yr or 4 yr at best home.
~~ Bullet and I used the VA for our 1st home. We invested our tax returns as a home owner over the 3 yrs into a money market. Took that money and parlayed it into our next home using a conventional loan. Sold that home, and parlayed those returns into our next (deposit)...so on and so forth for 5 homes. In 20 yrs we never paid PMI.

Again, I am not trying to get into an argument. I am just saying that if you used the numbers posted by AROTC-dad, it is really hard to say not invest in an IRA from a long term aspect. 5K invested as a 22 yo will be a lot by the time they are 42 when they retire from the military.
~ Heck, let's remember for ROTC their release date is tied to their EAD, which is most likely 5 yrs from commissioning, not 4. So even again, if you use AROTC-dad's info the % rises.
Also, as an AF military spouse I can tell you that every base we ever lived at, you knew what rank they were when they said what development they lived in. No lie. No exaggeration. It is still true, at least for my DS. His neighborhood is filled with young O2/3s. Why? Because it is in the best school district, it is close to base, the mtg is at their BAH rate, etc. etc. etc.

We are probably now killing phyzix with all this info. However, we are at least he now is getting a new view on why or why not to use the 16K for his student debt.

Phyzix,
Personally, I still stand by my earlier posts. Do you need a car to start your career? How will you pay for it if you already have 16K in debt? Will you use some of that remaining 9K for a deposit for the car? If so, than do you realize you are adding more debt, even if the car is 20K? Do you have furniture. household items (pots, pans, dishes. linens, etc) to start your new life? Will you have enough money to pay the deposits if you must live off base (rent is typically 1st and last + utilities)? Will you have enough money to PCS and wait for that 1st paycheck while you buy food, pay for cable, pay for rent while you wait for them to catch up on your pay?
CAN YOU SWEAR that the 9K you don't need to pay your debt off will not be blown/whittled away during your sr yr because now you see it as FREE MONEY?

I am sorry if we have confused you more, but if we have than I hope your eyes are more opened to the finesse issues of taking on debt.

Thanks everyone for the responses! I never learned any of this so I am trying to take it all in and do my research. To answer your question as of now.

1. I already have a car. It's all paid off for so no need to put any money towards that.
2. Currently, I live off campus and all my furniture are still kept pretty nice. I had them since sophomore year so if anything, I might need to purchase just a little more but those things I'm not too concerned about.

I haven't really thought about it that far into the future in regards with moving and all that while waiting to catch up on pay. Although, I would want to invest part of my loan now that you brought it up. If I do invest 5K it would leave me with 4K left for when I graduate.

My current job is stable, I plan on working here until I have to move to my first station and I now make enough to cover rent + I am on scholarship so I will no longer add to my student loan debt.
 
Keep in mind that you may also have to tie yourself over for the period between commissioning and reporting for active duty. I wouldn't set up the investment until late in the year after commissioning, as a just in case measure.
 
Careful about the wording on the stock market's rate of return or you'll have a disappointed cadet looking at his first year's returns. 12% is the historical average annual return of the S&P 500 over an extended period. Unless the cadet is lucky, he won't be seeing a 12% rate of return every year. And even the 12% average is tricky. For instance, from 2000 to 2017 the average annual rate of return was 7%, and in 2015 the annual rate of return was under 2%.
The other aspect he needs to remember about investing in a ROTH IRA with the USAA Starter funds is that while he probably (nothing is a given in the stock market) will get a higher return from the IRA investment, he will be paying off the loan from current income.
I'd also consider investing it outside of a ROTH in order to save up for a big purchase like the down payment on a home. He'll have a very good retirement package from the military, so doesn't necessarily need to add to it. And being able to put a large down payment for a home will save in monthly payments.
In any event, the Starter Loan offers good options for cadets.

Excellent post.

Neither of my sons had their own car during college, they both used the Starter Loan to purchase a vehicle, not all of it but a fair amount. The amount leftover helped with their PCS and getting set up when they arrived.

Both did the ROTH IRA, they had a monthly amount deducted so that would reach the max amount each year, basically they dollar cost averaged over each year.

Older son did exactly as stated above, saved in both the TSP, ROTH, and traditional savings. This allowed him enough for a 10% down payment on a house after he left Hawaii. While the VA does allow for that 0 to 1% down, it does double the VA fee that goes with the loan, a 10% down both lowers the payment and the VA fee (50% off the VA Fee)

Phyzix,

You will find that if you manage your money and the fact that you already have a vehicle and a lot of your household goods, you should still have a significant amount to save and invest each month. Both sons paid off their Starter Loans much sooner then the 5 year term, even while saving and not living like a miser. Good money management skills will go a long way.
 
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