CFA

[AFrpaso]

On the Air Force Academy website it says "Although the CFA is Pass-Fail, it is imperative that you perform to the best of your ability on each of these events:"

This makes it sound like you get more points on your WCS for doing better on the CFA.

How so if it clearly says Pass-Fail? Like I said before, the academy may use it to predict future performance for PT tests. They do the same thing with academics.

Either way, no one can really say one way or the other. Candidates should simply do their best, end of story.

 

[frenzymando]

On the Air Force Academy website it says "Although the CFA is Pass-Fail, it is imperative that you perform to the best of your ability on each of these events:"

This makes it sound like you get more points on your WCS for doing better on the CFA.

How so if it clearly says Pass-Fail? Like I said before, the academy may use it to predict future performance for PT tests. They do the same thing with academics.

Either way, no one can really say one way or the other. Candidates should simply do their best, end of story.

It also says "Candidates’ raw scores will be converted to scale scores (0-100 points) based upon their performance on each event. The 100 point maximum score, by event and gender, are listed in the table above. A candidate who achieves the 100 point level on any of the first five events should not attempt further repetitions as this will not improve his/her score."

It really sounds to me like you get more points on you WCS for better CFA scores.

 

[Pima]

I think for candidates, lurkers and new posters we need to stress clarity here.

If you fail 1 portion of the CFA, you failed the ENTIRE CFA. 0 points. You can have maxxed every other aspect, but once you fail one portion it is total FAIL.
~ There is no you get 100% for your Pull ups, push ups, sit ups, shuttle, mile, but 0% on BBall, and avg it out. 0 on BBall means FAILED.

On the Air Force Academy website it says "Although the CFA is Pass-Fail, it is imperative that you perform to the best of your ability on each of these events:"

Sometimes we read what we want to read.

Frenzy,

This is meant no offense, but you keep bringing up USMA and the FFR saying you can take it multiple times. That is USMA.

The way I read that as there is a key word:
it is IMPERATIVE that ...

IOWS, one and done is our rule of thumb. Don't submit unless you want us to keep the score.

If you look on USNA and USMA websites there is something that they do not place on it, but USAFA does. SAT 490/ACT24 E typically equates to being deemed non-competitive.

My point is every SA is different. USAFA is also known to take a strong look at that CFA because they know at the altitude at CSprings many cadets struggle the first week.

Finally,

I hope Flieger or CC steps in. Stealth might also know this answer.
Right now since Jest just returned from SLS, I am guessing his slide show is current.

 

[AFrpaso]

It also says "Candidates’ raw scores will be converted to scale scores (0-100 points) based upon their performance on each event. The 100 point maximum score, by event and gender, are listed in the table above. A candidate who achieves the 100 point level on any of the first five events should not attempt further repetitions as this will not improve his/her score."

It really sounds to me like you get more points on you WCS for better CFA scores.

As I said before, no one can say one way or another unless they are part of the admissions process.

 

[frenzymando]

Sometimes we read what we want to read.

Frenzy,

This is meant no offense, but you keep bringing up USMA and the FFR saying you can take it multiple times. That is USMA.

I'm not sure what you are reading, I never even mentioned an FFR and the only thing I said about USMA was that one of their former RCs said.

I never said that the USAFA allows people to take the CFA multiple times, I actually said the opposite. In post #9 I said

I also heard the Air Force Academy generally doesn't allow candidates to retake the CFA(the other service academies are more lenient on retakes).

 

[Pima]

It also says "Candidates’ raw scores will be converted to scale scores (0-100 points) based upon their performance on each event. The 100 point maximum score, by event and gender, are listed in the table above. A candidate who achieves the 100 point level on any of the first five events should not attempt further repetitions as this will not improve his/her score."

It really sounds to me like you get more points on you WCS for better CFA scores.

That is not what I read at all.

I read don't waste your energy. Max pullups is 18, don't do 19. That is how it even works for AFROTC contracted cadets. They stop as soon as they hit the number so their body will have more time to rest.before moving onto the next section.

Of course you get a better score on your WCS for maxxing, but again it is a pass fail. Fail the run, and you failed.

 

[frenzymando]

you get a better score on your WCS for maxxing

This is what I was trying to say. You get more points on your WCS for getting higher CFA scores.

 

[Pima]

Sometimes we read what we want to read.

Frenzy,

This is meant no offense, but you keep bringing up USMA and the FFR saying you can take it multiple times. That is USMA.

I'm not sure what you are reading, I never even mentioned an FFR and the only thing I said about USMA was that one of their former RCs said.

I never said that the USAFA allows people to take the CFA multiple times, I actually said the opposite. In post #9 I said

I also heard the Air Force Academy generally doesn't allow candidates to retake the CFA(the other service academies are more lenient on retakes).

My bad. It was a USMA RC that said it to you.

A former USMA RC said:


"Take the CFA as many times as you wish. However, bear in mind that it constitutes only about 10% of your overall file strength... once you've passed it, I'd recommend you leave the score alone. Your time would be better spent studying for & retaking the SAT/ACT than practicing for hours a day trying to throw that damn basketball a few feet further (and risking blowing out your rotator cuff in the process)."

Your words on this thread. I bolded this because I worry that many candidates apply to many SAs and believe that they all work the same when it comes to admissions regarding PAR, and CFAs...note my comment about SAT/ACT.

I think we need to stop this now. Candidates, posters and lurkers now know that for USAFA ....practice, practice, practice. Submit the best under the theory they will not re-open that portal.

Every point counts. The only true control you have as a candidate regarding the appointment process in my opinion is the CFA. You can't control your recs. You can't control your ranking in HS. You can't control DoDMERB. You can control how fast you run and how many pull ups you can do!

NO MOC can be charged until everyone on the slate has been boarded. That is the law. Charging is different than appointed. You can be appointed, but not charged to the MOC. USAFA allows you until Feb. to submit.
~ I am not saying wait. I am saying that if you can only do 6 pull ups, than keep working out starting now. By mid Sept. you should be near max. Way before you even get your MoC nomination, and weeks before the 1st appointment board will meet.

This is not get it in early no matter what. This is submit the best.

 

[FalconsRock]

NO MOC can be charged until everyone on the slate has been boarded. USAFA allows you until Feb. to submit.

Pima, very good information. There is one caveat, this year USAFA is doing the application process a little differently. Portals are being opened in the order that the apps are received and those that apply before July 1st will be opened by July 31st and will then have approximately 4 months to complete their applications. The deadlines will be staggered and specific to each candidate. Below is the info my DD received on her portal:

The Directorate of Admissions has moved to a new method of promoting applicants to candidate status and
setting deadlines for the completion of the candidate kit. Applicants will be promoted in the order they applied and
most deadlines to complete the candidate kit will occur from the 1st of November to the 31st of January. Your
specific deadline is posted on your portal. Please be aware of the deadline since failure to complete the required
items by the deadline will disqualify your application. We will send periodic reminders to you when you are two
months, one month, two weeks, and one week from the deadline.

We expect that most applicants that meet our candidate guidelines and that applied before the 1st of July will be
promoted to candidate status by the end of July. Applicants promoted to candidate status between the 1st of July
and the 30th of September will have at least four months to complete their required items. Applicants promoted to
candidate status on or after the 1st of October will typically have a deadline of the 31st of January to complete these
tasks.

So, what that means is those who applied early will not have until February, but will only have until November to submit CFA scores. My advice, get in gear and start training now. My DD is one of the early applicants, so she will only have until approximately the end of November to get it done.

 

[Pima]

After you just posted that, I remembered they tweaked it to something akin to ED. Must submit by Nov 1st. Otherwise you could wait until Feb. to complete.

It appears they tweaked it again

Taking the topic off the rails even more. It would be interesting to know why this change is occurring, and if they will force MoCs to submit slates earlier.
~ They have always had jan.31 cut off in the past

 

[MombaBomba]

It is locked once submitted by the administrator.

I don't know if it has changed, but last year, there was an area on the application portal to enter the scores along with the contact information for the administrator of the score. I can't recall if my son had to mail in the signed CFA or scanned it and submitted it on-line or if the administrator had to do it. I know it was a little different between Service Academies. He had his HS gym teacher administer it. So much paper work and forms for those service academy applications! The only thing I know for certain is once the CFA scores were formally submitted, you could not submit again unless the academy reached out to you and gave you the opportunity. Those cases were rare.

Also does anyone know what exactly constitutes a failing score? The only numbers we ever could track down were the max and averages on each event. My son used the average as the passing baseline.

 

[frenzymando]

It is locked once submitted by the administrator.

I don't know if it has changed, but last year, there was an area on the application portal to enter the scores along with the contact information for the administrator of the score. I can't recall if my son had to mail in the signed CFA or scanned it and submitted it on-line or if the administrator had to do it. I know it was a little different between Service Academies. He had his HS gym teacher administer it. So much paper work and forms for those service academy applications! The only thing I know for certain is once the CFA scores were formally submitted, you could not submit again unless the academy reached out to you and gave you the opportunity. Those cases were rare.

Also does anyone know what exactly constitutes a failing score? The only numbers we ever could track down were the max and averages on each event. My son used the average as the passing baseline.

The minimum scores are not known, however if you dig through old threads on the forum you can find people that post their CFA scores that say if they passed or not. I think I may have set the record for slowest mile time that passed for the Naval Academy. Keep in mind though that different academies have different minimum CFA scores.

 

[Pima]

I believe for our DS the administrator/proctor, whatever you want to call the person that gives the exam, submitted electronically to USAFA. DS had the hard copy of his scores.
~ DS did not submit the scores.

I also agree that you could not resubmit for USAFA unless they reached out to you.

They never to my knowledge post the fail score, only the max. It is in my opinion their own mind games. It pushes you to max since you don't know the fail. Fail could be 6, 9, or 12 on pull ups, however, you know 18 is max.
~ It pushes them to get past the 1+ fail to pass to the I will do this to I can't do 1 more.

 

[Pima]

I think I may have set the record for slowest mile time that passed for the Naval Academy. Keep in mind though that different academies have different minimum CFA scores.

Getting off topic now, but for USAFA I believe they do not send those 3Q postcards to every candidate. USNA is known to inform candidates that they are 3Q.

I would also say for candidates that are applying AFROTC scholarship as plan B. The PFA is different than a CFA. The run is longer. If you can't do a 7:30 minute mile for CFA, than you probably will fail the 1 1/2. You can't contract without passing that PFA 1st week at school.

You cannot use your CFA scores for the PFA. Make sure you time this out to do both on different days.

The PFA does not end in HS.
You will be required to pass it every semester to stay contracted.
DS is ADAF. He has to take it every year. It never ends,

 

[MombaBomba]

Getting off topic now, but for USAFA I believe they do not send those 3Q postcards to every candidate. USNA is known to inform candidates that they are 3Q.

Post cards????? It is indicated on the portal if the applicant is triple qualified. At least when my son applied, it was on-line. Tthere was an indication if an applicant was considered competitive (don't know remember specifically what made someone competitive, I think it might have been ACT/SAT grades and submitted school grades) and then updated to 3Q later on, but I can't remember if it used the term 3Q or some other verbiage. My son applied the first year the portal was available, so I know there have been changes and updates made since then. But I would suspect there would be some sort of competitive indicator on it still.

 

[JestFutureFalcon]

Sorry to bring this post up again but I just was wondering if I could do the shuttle run barefoot? I just ran it barefoot in the grass and figured out I'm a lot quicker w/o shoes. It might have something to do with my turn because I am flat footed so w/o my shoes I have more contact with the ground and slip a lot less. I know I can't use cleats, but of barefoot is an option for the Shuttle run then I definitely want to do it that way. In the packet it says that any item that gives the candidate an unfair advantage isn't permitted but it never says anything about not using shoes.

 

[Maplerock]

I think for candidates, lurkers and new posters we need to stress clarity here.

If you fail 1 portion of the CFA, you failed the ENTIRE CFA. 0 points. You can have maxxed every other aspect, but once you fail one portion it is total FAIL.
~ There is no you get 100% for your Pull ups, push ups, sit ups, shuttle, mile, but 0% on BBall, and avg it out. 0 on BBall means FAILED.

On the Air Force Academy website it says "Although the CFA is Pass-Fail, it is imperative that you perform to the best of your ability on each of these events:"

Sometimes we read what we want to read.

Frenzy,

This is meant no offense, but you keep bringing up USMA and the FFR saying you can take it multiple times. That is USMA.

The way I read that as there is a key word:
it is IMPERATIVE that ...

IOWS, one and done is our rule of thumb. Don't submit unless you want us to keep the score.

If you look on USNA and USMA websites there is something that they do not place on it, but USAFA does. SAT 490/ACT24 E typically equates to being deemed non-competitive.

My point is every SA is different. USAFA is also known to take a strong look at that CFA because they know at the altitude at CSprings many cadets struggle the first week.

Finally,

I hope Flieger or CC steps in. Stealth might also know this answer.
Right now since Jest just returned from SLS, I am guessing his slide show is current.

Respectfully, I disagree. I will never believe that a stellar candidate that excels everywhere else on the application would be disqualified for failing one portion of the CFA. If the academy wants you it will take you, regardless of your whole candidate score. If it doesn't want you the same holds true. You could max the CFA and the SAT and still not receive an appointment. Those meetings are secret for a reason. I believe we would be amazed, and disillusioned if we were a fly on the wall.

 

[FalconsRock]

Sorry to bring this post up again but I just was wondering if I could do the shuttle run barefoot? I just ran it barefoot in the grass and figured out I'm a lot quicker w/o shoes. It might have something to do with my turn because I am flat footed so w/o my shoes I have more contact with the ground and slip a lot less. I know I can't use cleats, but of barefoot is an option for the Shuttle run then I definitely want to do it that way. In the packet it says that any item that gives the candidate an unfair advantage isn't permitted but it never says anything about not using shoes.

Jest, I think you had better plan on keeping your shoes on and just suck it up and take the test. 5 tenths or 6 tenths of a second on your shuttle run is not going to break you unless you are incredibly slow, and in that case, you need to work harder. The CFA is a timed test and there is only so much time between events. Are you really going to remove your shoes, then put them back on for a 7 to 8 second run? Enough of the whining, just take the test and be done!

 

[Christcorp]

I had a candidate this year who was stellar. In my years as an alo and even prior working with candidates, I've probably only met 1-2 that I would say we're better. This candidate was also a female, which gave her that extra edge too. She had it all. 35's and 36 on act. 4.0gpa unweighted. IB program. Class officer. Sports, clubs, all the leadership, accepted to many prestigious universities. bla bla bla. She failed the cfa. The academy even allowed her to retake the cfa. Not normal for most applicants. Still didn't pass it. She didn't receive an appointment.

Last year, I had an individual, a guy, who's application remained disqualified because he failed the cfa. All other areas of his application were quite good. You might believe that the academy may bend for applicants they want, they definitely have. But I've not seen them bend the minimum standards. That's why as much as some despise the academy recruiting athletes, they don't recruit the 5 star football player with a 2.4 gpa. They know that the minimum standards are required in order to provide for some confidence of success at the academy. A 2.4 gpa 5 star football player probably wouldn't make it through the academy. A person who fails the cfa probably won't make it through the physical challenges of the academy and military.

But you are correct that there is some information about a candidate that isn't publicly shared. So I won't dismiss the possibility that some candidates aren't given an appointment even though they didn't meet the minimum standards. Simply saying I haven't seen it. The minimum standards aren't that high. Definitely higher than traditional universities and the added physical fitness requirements don't really exist at most schools, but the vast majority of applicants have little problem meeting the minimum standards. Including the cfa. Matter of fact, we don't normally speak of the minim standards, because by the time the academy is scoring the final 3000 +\- to get to the final 1200 appointments, those individuals are usually so much higher than the minimum standards. E.g. Average incoming appointee has a 3,86 gpa and 30-31 act, and no problem with the cfa.

 

[Christcorp]

Fwiw. On the shuttle run. Most of the candidates here took there cfa in the gymnasium. Except for the run. Can do barefoot on a gym floor.