Change my mind

The above is pretty accurate and also somewhat sad. It’s also reality for most top schools. Even the Ivies. Life isn’t always fair - get used to it.

For the non-recruited athletes, the good news that most of each incoming class does NOT consist of heavily recruited (blue chip) athletes.
 
time2 said:
I agree and how well you perform academically at any SA will have a bearing on your standing and no one can predict ahead of time how well they will do. Sports shouldn't be the main reason to attend any SA. I see a lot of new threads started by individuals in h.s. and the first thing they ask is about being recruited for a sport. Being recruited is no guarantee of an appointment and even those who do play a sport might find their time is better spent elsewhere. Historically, roughly 90% of those attending an SA were varsity athletes in h.s. Likely there will many others who are as good or even better then you at your chosen sport. If you spend most of your time as a bench warmer on whatever team you happen to be on, you need to assess if that time could be better spent elsewhere. No one pays tuition to attend an SA, so the reason to be 'recruited' isn't the same as it would be at a civilian college.

I would focus more on which SA is the best fit for you and less time on what it means to be recruited.
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??
 
I'm not sure OP original question of Navy v. AF was answered,,,and I'm going to take a slightly different tack -
First, one can argue that "odds" of a flight billet are greater or less at the one service academy over another, and that real men fly off carriers, etc. but my BGO (long ago, in the time of hard copy Admissions catalogues and submitting the application in a paper package and then waiting months to here results without the feedback of online portals assuring us that everything was received ) told me to look beyond flying. Back then, statistically Flight billets went pretty deep into the class at Service Selection --if you performed reasonably well and were physically qualified, you had a good chance to go aviation. The emphasis on physically qualified is intentional, as that was usually the biggest limiting factor. Maybe less an issue now that Navy will get you Lasik after 2nd class year but many wanna be aviators didn't make that cut. And that is where the biggest advantage of USNA comes -- if you can't fly Navy, there are many more options for those that want to reach Command , ie. Surface, Subs, Marine Corps, and Special Warfare. I am certainly not an expert on the AIr Force, but did spend 6 months at an Air Force Base (again, back when dinosaurs roamed the land) and it was pretty clear that if you didn't have pilot wings , you were kind of a second class citizen.

For OP -- DS should visit with an open mind. Air Force is what he knows, but there are some great opportunities at Navy. Who knows, he may like what he sees and set his own course. If not, well, serving in the Air Force is an honorable alternative to serving in the military :) !
 
pv123 said:
Ops tempo different in Navy for pilots?
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I'm confident in the statement that, generally, the quality of life for Air Force pilots is better than that for Navy Pilots. Living on a ship is hard, even for the brown shoes, let alone the black shoes. However, I also believe it is generally true that Naval Aviators get stationed in more desirable places when not at sea.

A Naval Aviator was just named for the next moon mission too. :)

As others have alluded to, I'd look beyond just flying other factors, of which I'd like to emphasize culture. Of course I'm biased, but I can't imagine myself in the USAF due to the differences in how I perceive their more up tight culture in comparison to the Navy's "work hard, play mindset."
 
USNA_STEM_Prof said:
Of course I'm biased, but I can't imagine myself in the USAF due to the differences in how I perceive their more up tight culture in comparison to the Navy's "work hard, play mindset."
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Agree...my observation based upon Nav Training was that Air Force operated from a strictly by the book, ie." if it isn't in the book, you can't do it" philosophy, were the Navy approach was that if it wasn't expressly prohibited, then you could do it (with a little leeway if you didn't get caught). My rationale for this goes back to history where Navy ships used to deploy independently for years, with little instruction but to set forth and do good for the country.,,it was impossible to prescribe every scenario that could come up.

One sea story (well, at an AFB, so not really a sea story) - I was doing Nav training at Mather AFB and a group of us had just finished doing a trainer session and we were walking out of a building when a rather uptight Major stopped us at the door and said we couldn't go out the door because a Colonel was going to arrive soon...we explained to the Major that we would salute the Colonel if he passed by, and kept walking out the door.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
I'm not sure OP original question of Navy v. AF was answered,,,and I'm going to take a slightly different tack -
First, one can argue that "odds" of a flight billet are greater or less at the one service academy over another, and that real men fly off carriers, etc. but my BGO (long ago, in the time of hard copy Admissions catalogues and submitting the application in a paper package and then waiting months to here results without the feedback of online portals assuring us that everything was received ) told me to look beyond flying. Back then, statistically Flight billets went pretty deep into the class at Service Selection --if you performed reasonably well and were physically qualified, you had a good chance to go aviation. The emphasis on physically qualified is intentional, as that was usually the biggest limiting factor. Maybe less an issue now that Navy will get you Lasik after 2nd class year but many wanna be aviators didn't make that cut. And that is where the biggest advantage of USNA comes -- if you can't fly Navy, there are many more options for those that want to reach Command , ie. Surface, Subs, Marine Corps, and Special Warfare. I am certainly not an expert on the AIr Force, but did spend 6 months at an Air Force Base (again, back when dinosaurs roamed the land) and it was pretty clear that if you didn't have pilot wings , you were kind of a second class citizen.

For OP -- DS should visit with an open mind. Air Force is what he knows, but there are some great opportunities at Navy. Who knows, he may like what he sees and set his own course. If not, well, serving in the Air Force is an honorable alternative to serving in the military :) !
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I just want to reply that this is not what I experienced as an AF intelligence officer. I supported flight operations both at the group and squadron levels and never felt like a 2nd class citizen. It was my job to work with and support both the pilots and other support personnel in our unit to make sure we could execute our mission. While the mission was aircraft-centric, pilots were only one piece of that puzzle. We worked as a team and I loved it.

I also worked in a non-aircraft squadron dealing with really cool stuff and didn't see pilots on a daily basis during that assignment. That job is likely a space force job now.

My ds at USAFA is not physically-qualified to fly and knew that going in. He is very excited about his career prospects in either the AF or SF (he isn't sure which he wants to serve in yet, but USAFA is doing a good job of helping him figure it out).
 
My DD was in a similar situation last year, with the exception that we are not a military family, and so DD had no firsthand experience with any of the military branches. She wanted to fly, and throughout her application process USAFA was her first choice, and USNA was a close second. She was recruited for her sport by Navy and talked to the USAFA coach but she wasn't "officially" recruited by USAFA during the application process; after she got her USAFA appointment, the USAFA coach assured her that she would be on the varsity team. She had visited both academies and loved both. She ended up getting into both, and it was a very difficult decision for her. We made a list of pros and cons, but it was hard to decide which pros and cons mattered more to her. She liked (what we understood to be) the shorter deployments in the AF vis-a-vis Navy, but was concerned about being stationed in the middle of nowhere at some remote AF base, as opposed to having a higher chance of being stationed in a great location with the Navy. She liked the overall aviation focus of USAFA but she also really wanted to land to carriers. She liked the Annapolis area, and while she also liked Colorado, a major attraction of CO for her is skiing, and she would not have been allowed to ski as a varsity athlete at USAFA because of the risk of potential injuries, so that positive was not a factor for her. She felt that, while from our research it sounded like the likelihood of her getting pilot at USAFA was probably a few percentage points higher, she would have a decent enough chance of getting Aviation at USNA, even though the fact that vision requirements for pilots are stricter in the Navy (20/40 for Navy vs 20/70 in the AF) did give her some pause. And she LOVED the Navy coach. Originally, I was quietly rooting for USAFA, but both my husband and I absolutely fell on love with USNA during the official visit. (To be fair, she didn't get invited on an official visit at USAFA, so we cannot compare that, although she went to a sports camp there the summer before and met the coaches, and she was comfortable with that.) In the end, she decided that, for her, the pros of USNA outweighed the cons. She is now a very happy Plebe, and I can't even imagine her elsewhere!
 
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USAFA is situated on 18,455 acres at an elevation of 6,788 feet above sea level with mountains. It's miles from the gate to the campus, and it's really quite beautiful. You will learn about aviation and experience the joy of running at elevation there.


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USNA is situated on only 338 acres on a riverfront that is cut off from viewing the ocean by that pesky State of Delaware. You can walk from one end of campus to the other in 10 minutes. Nevertheless, USNA is home to the world's largest dormitory and a subcritical nuclear reactor. You will learn to box, swim, and sail there.
 
In terms of campus, it’s more what’s your style. Annapolis is a really cool college town, you walk out the gate and you’re downtown with limitless restaurants, bars, and ice cream shops. USAFA as others have said is isolated. But, Colorado Springs is just a 15 minute drive down the road and is an awesome place with a lot going on. As a Plebe or Doolie, the ability to Doordash is king. USNA is much better suited for this. 😂
 
On a MIDN budget. 200/300/400/500 per month. Doesn't go far at $20 a pop for ordering!! :p

My kid said some of his classmates do it all the time. He's the opposite. He's always trying to work the deals and see how he can save more. He doesn't take after Dad. ;)
 
BlueHen2005 said:
In terms of campus, it’s more what’s your style. Annapolis is a really cool college town, you walk out the gate and you’re downtown with limitless restaurants, bars, and ice cream shops. USAFA as others have said is isolated. But, Colorado Springs is just a 15 minute drive down the road and is an awesome place with a lot going on. As a Plebe or Doolie, the ability to Doordash is king. USNA is much better suited for this. 😂
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And the bars. Nightlife. As a firstie, enjoyed during the weeknights as well. This really is something to consider, as USNA is the only one immersed within the community. Walking distance.
 
justdoit19 said:
And the bars. Nightlife. As a firstie, enjoyed during the weeknights as well. This really is something to consider, as USNA is the only one immersed within the community. Walking distance.
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Just to add to this - I work in CSprings a couple of times a month. It is beautiful, and the golf on the Eisenhower course is unrivaled. But the campus is isolated from downtown, and the traffic is always pretty awful with mass transit really limited.

I don’t really interact with them much, but I always see cadets at Peterson and Schriever so I assume there’s plenty of opportunities of one wants to commission USSF. If there’s any interest in space/sats it’s certainly the epicenter of that domain.
 
Heatherg21 said:
My land locked son did fine passing swim at USNA. Had to put in some work, but they ensure success with all of the efforts the program puts in to training.

Navy is the world’s second largest Air Force.

Each year, those that do the work and meet the requirements at USNA are evaluated for pilot selection, either Navy or Marine. The percentage of those midshipmen who receive their first choice for service selection is pretty darn high.

I can’t speak to ops tempo or quality of life.

DS finds out in November if he gets Navy pilot which is his first choice.
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Thanks for your share! Fingers crossed for your son getting a slot this November! My DS is at USNA now for an athletic visit.
 
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