citadel chances

[Rabbitt]

I am entering my senior year in high school and am curious about my chances of getting in to the Citadel. All of my SAT scores are well above 600, except math which is 590, and I have not yet recieved my ACT scores. I have played football all through High school, I am a captain on my lacrosse team, and I box as well. My GPA is a 3.7, but I go to a college prep school with higher standards, and I am taking AP government and politics and AP world lit. I am also a member of the national honors society, and am a member of the management committee for my local habitat for humanity. If anybody has any idea about my chances of acceptance, I would greatly appreciate the input.

 

[bruno]

I am entering my senior year in high school and am curious about my chances of getting in to the Citadel. All of my SAT scores are well above 600, except math which is 590, and I have not yet recieved my ACT scores. I have played football all through High school, I am a captain on my lacrosse team, and I box as well. My GPA is a 3.7, but I go to a college prep school with higher standards, and I am taking AP government and politics and AP world lit. I am also a member of the national honors society, and am a member of the management committee for my local habitat for humanity. If anybody has any idea about my chances of acceptance, I would greatly appreciate the input.

I would say that your chances are very good. Are you applying for an ROTC Scholarship?

 

[Rabbitt]

i'm not sure yet. I know alot about West Point and Annapolis, but im not sure exactly how the citadel works in regards to becoming an officer. I tried the website, but it didnt give me a lot of info. Am I recquired ti serve in the military after graduation? In addition, I was also curious about the extent of military training I will recieve at the citadel, and what my options are after graduating

 

[bruno]

well the Citadel is much like VMI which I am very familiar with- so I will talk about VMI- most of what I tell you will be common to the Citadel as well. At VMI- you are required to take 4 years of ROTC- but you are not required to sign a contract or accept a commission- roughly 55- 60% of the graduating class will commission in one of the services and the school has an official target of 75% commissioning. The military training you receive is both service specific thru the ROTC detachments, and more generic training directed by the commandants office (mostly out door type activities - road marching, obstacle courses, pugil sticks, basic weapons familiarization firing etc...). Both VMI and the Citadel are physically oriented places- in a way they are a throwback to the USMA of 40 years ago- you will be physically, verbally and mentally harrassed and physically challenged as a Rat/ Knob.
They are also schools that have long proud histories and frankly don't concede anything to anyone else including the Service Academies - VMI dates to 1839 and has the unique claim that it fought in the Civil War enmasse as a unit at the Battle of New Market and since then has produced countless general officers and flag officers of all services and in all wars- not to mention leaders in multiple different civilian fields - in VMI's case the Civil Engineering department has a old and well known reputation- of more recent vintage is the Arabic program which has been recently recognized by the DoD and the State Department with program grants to support extensive overseas study for a number of Cadets going into the military.
Finally, at least in the case of the Army at VMI- a very large percentage of the classes of 2011 and 2012 are on 4 year scholarships which pays for virtually everything except room and board and gives you a substantial stipend each month-I'm sure that this is true of the Citadel as well. I can't speak to the AF or Navy- I know that there a lot of Marine Scholarships at VMI as well (especially 3 year scholarships which I believe the Navy/MArine detachment has a lot more control of than the 4 year scholarship process).
VMI has a very good informative web site - the link is:
http://www.vmi.edu/

I hope this helps- I'm an alumnus of VMI, the father of an incoming VMI cadet ona 4 year scholarship and a retired Army Officer so if you have any questions about the school - or general questions about lifestyle at VMI or el Cid- feel free to contact me.
Good luck on your college hunt!!

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

i was accepted to El Cid for 2008-2009 but decided to go elsewhere

i'll only comment on 4 things i know about:

the commission rate for El Cid is only about 30% recently. they are trying to raise that though. this is compared to VMI which is over 50% now. don't know why there is such a large difference.

if you bring an ROTC scholarship to El Cid,they will give you another scholarship that covers your "full catalog cost". i believe this means it covers your room & board and all other fees which are listed in the college catalog. so going to El Cid on an ROTC scholarship is close to free.

I spoke to a number of ppl who got accepted or who are going to El Cid. with the exception of 1 person, all of us were able to get full-ride scholarships to El Cid, even without ROTC. At vmi, its almost the opposite... LOL. i don't know what this means, but one thing it means is that El Cid has a lot of money for scholarships and isnt shy about handing it out! if i were to guess looking at your stats, i'd guess that El Cid would offer you a full-ride too. (just my guess, but based on what happened to me and the others i've spoken to )

there is an INTENSE rivalry between El Cid and VMI

good luck with your college search!

 

[jamzmom]

what my options are after graduating

Many. This is sort of a loaded question as you haven't made your interests clear really. Say you were considering Criminal Justice at The Citadel.... The field is broad with many options after graduating. If you go the engineering route, many many opportunities will present themselves by the time you walk with a diploma. Its a broad question to answer. It will boil down to your goals for your future.

I feel Bruno asked an important question as to where you stand at the moment as a college applicant: "Have you thought about applying for an ROTC scholarship?" You seem to have good stats. Shoot for all of your choices to have many options. Apply to all that interest you. Get those choices for yourself. Make connections here with some of the current students, the Alumni, like Bruno, and several of the Service Academy Grads here. Ask a ton of questions & learn what ever you can NOW. You are right in the middle of prime time here. My son found out early on that the more questions he'd ask, the more he said, "Wow! I didn't know that." It helped with his decisions. I seriously don't know what son would have done without these guys helping shed light on the mysteries of it all. Best of luck to you Rabbit! Welcome to the site!

 

[Rabbitt]

Thanks! I really appreciate the input and response. However, I do have a good question that may need some clarification. It is my understanding that if I go to the citadel as a cadet, I am automatically recquired to participate in one of the ROTC programs, yet I am not obligated to military service after graduating. I may have to plead ignorance on this one, but I thought that if I accepted an ROTC scholarship, I am recquird to serve in the military because the gov. is paying for me to be trained as an officer. Is the ROTC scholarship program different at the citadel than other civilian collages with rotc programs? Basically, Im asking that If I accept the full ROTC scholarship, for any branch, to the citadel, am I still left with the option of returning to civilian life after graduating?
-Thanks again

 

[bruno]

How you incur an obligation: this is going to be true whether you go to a military college or a civilian one: IF you take an ROTC Scholarship- you have one year to decide while you are taking basic ROTC classes if you wish to sign a contract which will then obligate you to take a commission. At the start of your sophomore (3rd Class) year you will either sign or not - if not your scholarship will be terminated at that point with no payback obligation. If you don't have a scholarship - at the start of your junior (2d class year) you can sign a contract which will pay you a monthly stipend and uniform allowance and you will be obligated if you are offered a commission. AT VMI and the Citadel - in both cases you will have to take the ROTC courses - regardless of whether you sign a contract- but no contract= no obligation. For the Army if you have contracted you will have a 6 week summer training obligation at Ft Lewis Washington at the end of your junior (2d class) year. This is pretty much the same deal in all of the services I believe. In the Army- as a scholarship cadet you will have a 4 year active duty obligation if on scholarship followed by a 4 yr reserve obligation- which used to be something of a pass to do nothing- I can assure you that the Reserve commitment now will mean something as countless Individual Ready Reservists as well as drilling reservists and National Guardsmen have been deployed to Iraq and or Afghanistan- which if you read the newspaper - came as a surprise to some of the IRR members who thought that they had completed their obligation when they left active duty.

 

[jamzmom]

EDIT: Bruno posted the same time I did & his comments are vastly better than mine so re-read his!

By accepting an ROTC scholarship, yes, you will have to do some payback time in the military. You can attend The Citadel as a non-ROTC scholarship student by simply declining it if it is offered or not applying for it and just remain a 'regular' (for lack of a better word) member of ROTC as per their requirement. Many do stay in the civvy world upon graduating The Citadel by doing this.

The Citadel offers many outside scholarships to help with college costs as well. When you apply, you are automatically considered for those scholarships with no further paperwork necessary. Keep in mind that ROTC scholarships are another animal therefore you must apply for it. There is a member here named JAM who has wonderful knowledge & understanding of the ROTC scholarship program. If you've specific questions as to that topic, I would seek her out.

 

[Rabbitt]

So I will be taking the rotc courses no matter what, But recieving the actual scholarship and $ from the gov determines if I am actually obligated for military service

 

[jamzmom]

Rabbit, pretty much yeah. You're getting it. My understanding runs exactly the same as what Bruno said earlier:

IF you take an ROTC Scholarship- you have one year to decide while you are taking basic ROTC classes if you wish to sign a contract which will then obligate you to take a commission. At the start of your sophomore (3rd Class) year you will either sign or not - if not your scholarship will be terminated at that point with no payback obligation. If you don't have a scholarship - at the start of your junior (2d class year) you can sign a contract which will pay you a monthly stipend and uniform allowance and you will be obligated if you are offered a commission. AT VMI and the Citadel - in both cases you will have to take the ROTC courses - regardless of whether you sign a contract- but no contract= no obligation.

You will do ROTC no matter what. If you apply for & get offered the ROTC scholarship & accept it, Bruno's quote above best explains how it works. Another good thing to do is to go ahead and call up admissions with your questions as well. Those guys & gals are great with helping applicants to understand the ins & outs. Have you looked all through the catalog yet?

 

[bruno]

Rabbit, pretty much yeah. You're getting it. My understanding runs exactly the same as what Bruno said earlier:


You will do ROTC no matter what. If you apply for & get offered the ROTC scholarship & accept it, Bruno's quote above best explains how it works. Another good thing to do is to go ahead and call up admissions with your questions as well. Those guys & gals are great with helping applicants to understand the ins & outs. Have you looked all through the catalog yet?

That's pretty much it as far as a military obligation.

I'm not sure what your interests are- if you are interested but not certain about service in the military after graduation- I would urge you to start an application for an ROTC scholarship, while you continue to think about it. As long as you are honestly open to serving after graduation I don't think that there is anything dishonerable about deciding after your 4th class year that a commission is not what you want to do- in fact that is why they give you that year without penalty- because it is natural to have your opinions change as you get more exposure to the military. Meanwhile however, it is a tremendous oportunity.
Should you decide not to go into the service after graduation, I think that VMI and the Citadel provide you with life lessons in leadership that will be applicable whever you go. I have inserted a quote from a VMI alum - class of ' 06- who is now serving with the Peace Corps in Lesotho.He is more articulate than I- (you can find the entire story on the VMI web site news section: http://www.vmi.edu/NewsCenter.aspx?id=23691 )


-"Dernovsek says he developed “nerves of steel” at VMI.

“On a daily basis I run into situations that would test most nerves and tempers and push them to the limit. What do you do when you’ve been driving in a taxi with 20 people that only seats 14 for the last six hours, your tire blows and you arrive at home in the middle of the night to find your dog missing and garden dying?

“The stress I face here is nothing compared to the stress that I not only learned to live with, but also to work productively with at VMI. VMI gave me the ability to balance all aspects of my life, including my tasks.

“People often ask me how I am able to keep so many projects going and focus on so many different things at once. The answer is simple: I prioritize and balance the different parts of my life and of my projects to meet the needs of the situation. I am confident that nowhere is this better ingrained into a person than in an environment like that of VMI.”"

 

[Rabbitt]

I appreciate the input
As for my interests, I am strongly setting my sights on the FBI. I visited the webpage listing the various courses offered by the citadel, and their criminal justice program seems promising. I am not trying to sound dishonourable, but I sense that an education in a military environment along with military training without service obligation would be ideal. Not only would I have a degree in criminal justice, but I would also have the same training as an officer in the military, which would be a major asset that I could bring to the intelligence field. Plus, if I decide not to make a career in the military, I can persue the FBI after my first four years of college.

I undersand that my qualification for various scholarships, other than rotc, is to be determined upon review of my application. However, based upon my credentials in my first post of this thread, do you think I am qualified for other academic scholarships, because $31,000 a year is alot of money that I dont have.
-thanks again

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

nvm.

 

[bruno]

I appreciate the input
As for my interests, I am strongly setting my sights on the FBI. I visited the webpage listing the various courses offered by the citadel, and their criminal justice program seems promising. I am not trying to sound dishonourable, but I sense that an education in a military environment along with military training without service obligation would be ideal. Not only would I have a degree in criminal justice, but I would also have the same training as an officer in the military, which would be a major asset that I could bring to the intelligence field. Plus, if I decide not to make a career in the military, I can persue the FBI after my first four years of college.

I undersand that my qualification for various scholarships, other than rotc, is to be determined upon review of my application. However, based upon my credentials in my first post of this thread, do you think I am qualified for other academic scholarships, because $31,000 a year is alot of money that I dont have.
-thanks again

Rabbit-
That makes some sense- however,have you done any research into the skills and majors that the FBI is looking for? I know that in my younger days they were primarily looking for accountants or lawyers- and I believe that I have read that they are particularly looking for fluency in foreign languages (middle eastern particularly) right now- however I'm not all that in touch with the FBI so I would do some research to see what majors they are looking for these days.
I'm afraid that I could not comment on the likelihood of scholarship money- I really have no idea how they make those decisions. I would say that your best bet is to touch base with the admissions office and talk with them. It certainly sounds like you have a strong file- but I really don't know what formulas they use to determine eligibility for scholarship aid and unless there is someone on this site who is in the admissions department of one of those schools I wouldn't think that anyone else will really be able to answer that for you. Certainly the school will take into consideration both your record and your financial need- as well as the profile that they are trying to achieve in the incoming class when they make financial aid decisions, so the fact that someone else received or didn't receive aid offers this year isn't necessarily relevant to your situation next year. I certainly would not put much credence in someone not in the decision loop who tells you that you are a lock for scholarship money as the criteria used to offer them money may be very different from how they evaluate you. So your best bet- start a file with the admissions office and start talking directly with them.

This will be an exciting time for you- some times stressful but also exciting as you narrow down your search. Good luck in the hunt!

 

[Rabbitt]

Really? where do they get all of the money for these other scholarships that they seem to hand out(full-ride), because I may have good stats but they're not amazing. My mom is really paranoid about ths because she thinks its too good to be true, this type of an education, training, and experience without military obligation unless I go along with the rotc scholarship.

And if I dont accept a commision, do i still get the full rotc package (minus the $ of course) such as the basic program for my first two years and then more tactical oriented training. From what ive seen in pictures and admission videos, most cadets seem to be in some type of formal parade attire or simple pt attire. basically, do I still get combat/tactical oriented experience and training even if i dont accept the commision

 

[Rabbitt]

I understand what your saying completely. I know that the only way to really find out is through admissions. Im just trying to get a general idea until i do talk to them. With an opportunity like this coming up, is just hard for me to sit still if you know what I mean, lol. I try to ask questions any time I get the opportunity, even though I know the answers may only be ideas or ball park estimates. Thats basically whay I started this thread, just to get a general idea of where I stand before I get involved. I try to get as much info as possible so that I know what may be coming my way.
-thanks again

 

[bruno]

Really? where do they get all of the money for these other scholarships that they seem to hand out(full-ride), because I may have good stats but they're not amazing. My mom is really paranoid about ths because she thinks its too good to be true, this type of an education, training, and experience without military obligation unless I go along with the rotc scholarship.

And if I dont accept a commision, do i still get the full rotc package (minus the $ of course) such as the basic program for my first two years and then more tactical oriented training. From what ive seen in pictures and admission videos, most cadets seem to be in some type of formal parade attire or simple pt attire. basically, do I still get combat/tactical oriented experience and training even if i dont accept the commision

A definition of the Army ROTC courses that you will have to take (this is an Army syllabus so it will be the same at VMI or the Citadel)can be found at: http://www.vmi.edu/ARMY.aspx?id=2454&ekmensel=fb5d653b_190_0_2454_3.

Again- as far as the amount of money they could offer you- you really ought to talk with the school as it will definitely be situation dependent.

 

[jamzmom]

Rabbit, its good you're seeking answers. Shows you've got Moxy enough to stand on your own. Thats a good thing. Its awesome that you're interested in criminal justice. Its a great major at El Cid. My son was going for the same but then was offered an appointment to USMMA & that was his #1 choice so..... he's there in his last year but still has a huge love affair for Charleston. Anyhow, I would kinda have to disagree that El Cid hands out regular scholarship dollars freely. They have to want you pretty badly. My son had some pretty eye popping stats & he didn't get offered a full ride nor a full ROTC scholarship. Many factors go into those decisions. Thats why most want to see you apply for all thats out there while doing your application stuff. Apply to the service academies as well. Never think you're not good enough! I caught a hint that you think your stats weren't great? No doubt they are good. Keep working on them! Apply to all. Besides, it will give you some breathing room while trying to make these huge decisions. You never know what options might pop up for you. On a side note, at the Citadel, you'll also graduate with a major in Leadership. Homeland security looks for leaders as well as the FBI so keep all your options open. I agree with Bruno that there is nothing dis-honorable if you choose not to serve the military route. Alot of great people coming from the Citadel are doing great things for this country. With a military education, you will have the dedication & understanding to be one of the good guys. Allow your Mom to stress right along with you. We're good at that type of thing.

 

[VMINROTChopeful]

Anyhow, I would kinda have to disagree that El Cid hands out regular scholarship dollars freely.

I have to admit that the only people i've spoken to about Citadel scholarships are:
1 me
2 a new friend who is now starting with me at VMI this year and has a VMI "Institute Scholar" scholarship
3 a girl from my high school who is now a 3rd yr student at El Cid
4 a guy on this forum

and 3 of the 4 of us had been offered full-rides at El Cid, and 1 of us accepted it and went (my former highschool classmate). And at least I didn't get offered full-ride at VMI (although I did miss the date for applying for the VMI Institute Scholar scholarship), so i definitely got the sense its easier to get a full-ride at El Cid than at VMI. so no, i don't have a lot of data points. and yes, jamzmom might be right. that would make me feel better actually LOL. I felt pretty good about getting offered a full-ride at El Cid , but when 3 of the 4 ppl I talked to also had gotten offered full rides at El Cid , I started feeling not very special after all! haha.