Civilian College & ROTC or USAFA?

M

Merlinity

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
21
I have been accepted to multiple schools, most notably the USAFA and USNA. I would go USAFA no matter what if I selected an academy because I want to be fighter pilot, plain and simple. If I didn't go to USAFA I would do ROTC at a civilian college.

My dilemma exists within the fact that I am an individual. I have striven to be successful in what I do such as debate, philosophy classes, and liberal arts. I enjoy concerts, being with friends and learning things about myself and who I want to become.
My goals are as follows :
1- I want to become an astronaut pilot first and foremost.
2- I want to become a senator and political leader of this country.
3- I want to support individuals like me who have suffered within their own lives.

There are multiple ways to accomplish this, my family has never been military and I have not done a single day of ROTC in my life. I believe that an individual should be talented not only in science and math but in liberal arts. Science and math interest me because I struggle at it, and I hate not being able to do something. I am successful in liberal arts and deeply have a passion for political science and philosophy. I also enjoy being challenged in Aerospace Engineering at which I'm going to high school for and it's my major. We're one of the few in the country. Astronomy is a subject at which all of this started, I am obsessed with the unknown and every day ponder being an astronaut and going somewhere no one ever has before. I enjoy reading books by Neil Degrasse Tyson and Brian Greene. Astronomy & engineering is the foundation for who I am and who I strive to become.

The academy is known for being the "hard" route. I have always taken the "hard" route but this is a new monster that I must tackle. For example, this summer I would like to travel the world, specifically Thailand to learn about cultures other than my own, and learn how people live their lives elsewhere. If I go to the Academy this opportunity goes away completely. For 6 weeks I will be at BCT while my friends are doing all of these spiritual things and simply enjoying life. I will not be able to use my phone, but it's not the fact that I'm a teenager who cannot go without my phone for two days, its just the thought that someone is telling me I can't do something. Obviously, there is no logical reason why we can't use our phones, because someone is definitely fully capable of getting through BCt with or without them and I feel like it's a pointless rule that doesn't dictate success. I would like to be objective with this however and broaden the scope to the Academy. I will be told to do things simply because that's how it is and you are supposed to follow these bureaucratic leaders because that's just how it is.
6 Weeks of BCT isn't scary, the fact that I can't question it is.

I'm going to be a pilot if I go to the Academy. There is no if ands or buts, I will work my ass off to make sure I get it. But then the problem exists within the fact that I have a ten year commitment. Now at first that's not a bad thing because you're getting paid to do what you love, but what if, for SOME REASON, I begin to hate my job and want to leave? I am stuck there for another 8 years. That's the scary thing. I guess it's the fact that I would probably stay ten years but when I'm told that I HAVE TO do something, it's a whole other ballgame.

I like to question social norms and rules and why they exist. I need to stand out. I don't' want to be another person's image of a leader, but I want to be one and be a damn great one at that. I want to become an astronaut pilot because "I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream." I want to be one of the world's most influential and provocative leaders. I want to be able to go to concerts and travel places and learn about the deeper meanings of life. I want to be great. I guess it's Koinophobia.

For the love of god if you've taken your time to read all of this, don't just say "don't go" or "USAFA is great". Tell me; not just another person you're trying to tell to attend the academy, what I should do to become clear on my decision. Of course, I could always transfer out of the academy but I don't want to go there knowing I might transfer out but I also don't want to go to a civilian college and do ROTC and ponder "what if I went to the Academy". I want to be happy in my decision.

Thank you for listening,
What do I do and where do I start?
 
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Merlinity said:
its just the thought that someone is telling me I can't do something. Obviously, there is no logical reason why we can't use our phones, because someone is definitely fully capable of getting through BCt with or without them and I feel like it's a pointless rule that doesn't dictate success.
Click to expand...

This statement gives me pause that the military would be a good fit for you. There will be many rules at the academy and in the military that don't make sense to you, but you have to follow them. I would consider myself a very independent thinker and I did well in the military, but you have to be willing to not sharpshoot every decision and just execute. Obviously there might be times where an order is unethical that are different, but not getting to keep your phone certainly isn't one.

Best of luck to you!
 
If you are struggling that hard with the thought of being told you -have- to do something, I'm going to agree with billyb and suggest the military might not suit you right now. That's not a bad thing, it is just something you need to consider as you are making your choice. If the absolute freedom to change your mind and your path on a whim is important to you, this might not be the path you want to start down, yet.
 
What an amazing post... I am intrigued in the manner in which you laid it out - and compelled to reply with a bit of experience from a Navy guy, and now a dad with kids at both USAFA and USNA.

Guess my first thought is that of observing my DD just now finishing her Junior year @ USAFA in Astronautical Engineering and reflecting on her personality. Its NEVER one camp or the other. What does that mean? She is the most gentle, kind, giving and caring person I know next to her mother.... and happens to have been on USAFA’s women rugby team winning the National Championship in 2016 contributing a try. She loves being in musicals, skits and plays along with being an accomplished pianist and clarinet player while at the same time knocking it out of the park in her accademic studies - in a really tough major. Gentle and super tough, classical (feeling) music producer and scientific math strict engineer student.

In her three years at USAFA, has spent a tremoudous amount of time traveling - including (6) weeks in Japan, Korea and Thailand (with USAFA). Has spent time in Houston at the space center and most other notable areas of “anything space” within the US. Is both chained to the desk at USAFA... and been flying like a bird.

Must say it is a very similar situation with DS. The most prolific (feeling) writer, story teller and all things drama kid you would ever want to meet. Litterally was encouraged to continue refining some short stories in 8th grade to be published. Ok, that sets the stage for boxing in a “type” of personality right. He is also the wild child, into everything, testing all boundary’s constantly. But yet straight “A’s” all through HS in a very rigorous IB diploma program with emphases on math and science... oh and also a state champion running and jumping athlete along with being a very accomplished clarinet player - and intends on studying nuclear engineering and LOVES the military - He is like a (4) headed coin.

OK, what the heck does all this mean and how might it apply to your situation... I do not see that going to a SA has hindered any of the creative, loving, care for the world liberal (not even certain what that word means anymore to be honest) bent both the kids have. In fact - not certain how to explain it; seems to compliment and increase the intensity and understanding of individualism - while in a very strict rule enforced environment. Makes no sense right. There seems to be a weird synergy going on that is amazing to watch develop. They both say to me they are not loosing there individuality, but more exercising the opposite muscle a bit. It’s like doing a million sit ups and never doing anything with your back muscles - will lead to real problems and a lopsided core right.

I would LOVE to see a person such as yourself enter into a SA with an open mind and give it your all. Sure, at times (quite often starting out) your going to say; what, why, this makes no sense at all!! What is the meaning of this. Dont let that consume you - go with it and just see what happens to the over all you. Its like the practice of Mindful meditation. At first its like this seems really silly... what is this really doing, makes no sense to me at all... then after a bit of time, things begin changing and its like - oh, something is happening - how interesting and curious - going to stay with this...

Its the whole person concept I think about - and to me the greatest leaders are those who have the skills and experience BALANCED from many different camps (military bearing, liberal arts, creativity and a general love of human kind...) to be open mindedly understanding and be present for the ever changing landscape - which is happening at about Mach 5 compared to this old mans military days aboard the USS Midway, USS Forrestal et al... .

You are obviously a VERY talented individual and will succeed greatly on whatever road you choose - every one of your options are but dreams for so many people - seize the moment and do not take it for granted - it is but fleeting my friend...

Oh, Assuming the whole keep your phone thing is but a metaphor... hopefully anyhow

NAVY AND AIR FORCE BEAT ARMY!
 
Merlinity,

After reading your post, I can first see that you are over thinking and over complicating the situation more than it needs to be. First thing I recommend is stop whatever you are doing and take a deep breath. I understand where you are coming from, having many aspirations for life. I am only a few years older than you, so I do understand the desire to plan your entire life out. The best advice I can give to address your competing wants and desires is to understand that you will have an entire lifetime to achieve your aspirations. Saying that, you have some aspirations that are "time sensitive", i.e., the opportunity to do them is now and will only be available now.

The academy is that opportunity. It is a terrific school, but like any school it has it's drawbacks. One of these is the inability to experience a "normal" college life. You are the Air Force's for the four years while you are there, that is, you must abide by their rules. Now if you went the ROTC route, you will get a "normal" college experience in that you will go through all the stresses and responsibility that normal college kids get to go through. But with ROTC you must remember that while you are in the program, you still must abide by the AF rules and regs.

Either way, if you want to achieve your goal of becoming a pilot, now is the opportunity and you must understand that to achieve one goal, you may have to sacrifice another for now. What I suggest you do is make a chart of the pro-cons of going to the academy. (You can do this with all of your aspirations as well.) You kinda already did this here but do it again on a piece of paper. Write your pros and cons down, then decide. When you are writing your points down, try to think of the consequences of each point. What I mean by this is don't think of the immediate pros and cons, rather think about the ramifications of your decision now may have on your future.

Ultimately the decision lies with you. You must decide what aspirations are more important to you and if the opportunity to achieve them is present now or can wait.

If you have more questions/concerns, feel free to PM me.

- somerandomafguy
 
If your desire is to become an astronaut as a pilot, you're going to be in the military a lot longer than 8 years. My nephew graduated at the top of his class at USAFA, went straight to MIT, EuroNato UPT then flew an additional 7 years, several years of which were deployed, combat missions, to even be eligible for test pilot school and now is an astronaut candidate 11 years after graduation. One of my PhD classmates at Stanford is also a retired astronaut, and she was well into her 30's at selection, yet still the youngest in her astronaut class. If you are chafing at the rules before you've been there even a single day, as an alum of USAFA, I'd seriously question whether it's the right fit for you. As a school, CU Boulder has more astronauts than any other institution, including the academies.
 
I'm only replying because I'm bored at the moment.

I can't figure if the OP is a troll; (Hell of a 1st post ever, at 2am) OR
If the person is simply ignorant of the military. This is not a bad thing. Ignorance simply means "You don't know something".

I'll wait to see if the poster replies with a 2nd post before I determine if they are a troll or not.
 
It sounds like you have the potential to be a very good leader of Airmen someday. However, if you choose the Academy, be ready to accept an attitude adjustment, at least temporarily. The cadre will not tolerate questioning of the status quo during basic, or even during doolie year for the most part. Finally, no matter how hard you work, you cannot guarantee yourself a pilot slot, simply because of medical reasons and other unforeseeable circumstances. If you are prepared to accept these things, come to USAFA and learn to lead.
 
Obviously, there is no logical reason why we can't use our phones, because someone is definitely fully capable of getting through BCt with or without them and I feel like it's a pointless rule that doesn't dictate success.
Click to expand...

There may be reason that you don't know.
If you are trying to get young people in the military mindset and form a cadre the best thing to do is to have them rely on each other and immerse them in the military. If you are constantly contacting home then it will be harder to do that.

We had an exchange student that we hosted one year...the exchange organization told them not to call home more often then every two weeks...they needed to start to bond with the host family.

We also lived abroad for 3 years...my youngest kept FB with her friends in the USA...it took her much longer to make friends because she invested her emotional energy in her old friends.
 
Christcorp said:
I'm only replying because I'm bored at the moment.

I can't figure if the OP is a troll; (Hell of a 1st post ever, at 2am) OR
If the person is simply ignorant of the military. This is not a bad thing. Ignorance simply means "You don't know something".

I'll wait to see if the poster replies with a 2nd post before I determine if they are a troll or not.
Click to expand...
What is OP? Thank you
 
Christcorp said:
I'm only replying because I'm bored at the moment.

I can't figure if the OP is a troll; (Hell of a 1st post ever, at 2am) OR
If the person is simply ignorant of the military. This is not a bad thing. Ignorance simply means "You don't know something".

I'll wait to see if the poster replies with a 2nd post before I determine if they are a troll or not.
Click to expand...

Yes. I totally took my time at two in the morning to write paragraphs asking for help all to.....be a troll.

Seriously.....? I'm asking a question that I really don't know the answer to.
 
lynn114 said:
Christcorp said:
I'm only replying because I'm bored at the moment.

I can't figure if the OP is a troll; (Hell of a 1st post ever, at 2am) OR
If the person is simply ignorant of the military. This is not a bad thing. Ignorance simply means "You don't know something".

I'll wait to see if the poster replies with a 2nd post before I determine if they are a troll or not.
Click to expand...
What is OP? Thank you
Click to expand...

A confused 17 year old who can't be expected to know what is the right decision for the rest of my life.
 
somerandomafguy said:
Merlinity,

After reading your post, I can first see that you are over thinking and over complicating the situation more than it needs to be. First thing I recommend is stop whatever you are doing and take a deep breath. I understand where you are coming from, having many aspirations for life. I am only a few years older than you, so I do understand the desire to plan your entire life out. The best advice I can give to address your competing wants and desires is to understand that you will have an entire lifetime to achieve your aspirations. Saying that, you have some aspirations that are "time sensitive", i.e., the opportunity to do them is now and will only be available now.

The academy is that opportunity. It is a terrific school, but like any school it has it's drawbacks. One of these is the inability to experience a "normal" college life. You are the Air Force's for the four years while you are there, that is, you must abide by their rules. Now if you went the ROTC route, you will get a "normal" college experience in that you will go through all the stresses and responsibility that normal college kids get to go through. But with ROTC you must remember that while you are in the program, you still must abide by the AF rules and regs.

Either way, if you want to achieve your goal of becoming a pilot, now is the opportunity and you must understand that to achieve one goal, you may have to sacrifice another for now. What I suggest you do is make a chart of the pro-cons of going to the academy. (You can do this with all of your aspirations as well.) You kinda already did this here but do it again on a piece of paper. Write your pros and cons down, then decide. When you are writing your points down, try to think of the consequences of each point. What I mean by this is don't think of the immediate pros and cons, rather think about the ramifications of your decision now may have on your future.

Ultimately the decision lies with you. You must decide what aspirations are more important to you and if the opportunity to achieve them is present now or can wait.

If you have more questions/concerns, feel free to PM me.

- somerandomafguy
Click to expand...
I will definitely do so. That was really helpful, I will probably be messaging you within a few days!
 
Merlinity said:
Yes. I totally took my time at two in the morning to write paragraphs asking for help all to.....be a troll.

Seriously.....? I'm asking a question that I really don't know the answer to.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you replied. Believe it or not, there are a lot of trolls that sign in to forums, make only one post, never come back, and try to get a lot of people to get into a debate.

But; onto your question.

You have a lot of great ambitions. I applaud that. I also think you have a lot of good qualities for potential leadership. There are a few things you have to realize if you truly care about going to the academy.

1. The academy is not a finite goal; like going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. The academies are simply a MEANS of becoming a commissioned officer in the military; and becoming a military leader. Yes, you receive a college degree, but it's just one of a number of paths to becoming a commissioned officer.
2. Being a pilot, let alone a fighter pilot, would simply be your job in the military. It's not a lifestyle. You will spend a lot more hours/days on the ground, behind a desk, doing paperwork, etc. then you will be flying.
3. Some of the things you mentioned about yourself, you will have to "Reflect on" to determine if the military is actually the right place for you. (Academy OR ROTC). For instance, when you say: "the thought that someone is telling me I can't do something". A large part of BEING in the military, is about rules and regulations telling you that you CAN'T DO SOMETHING. Especially during any type of training.
4. The military is 100% about "THE TEAM". It's NEVER about the INDIVIDUAL. That doesn't mean there isn't "INDIVIDUALITY". It simply means, that the individual talents and desires become part of a collective, for the betterment of "THE TEAM". It's ALWAYS about the TEAM. To be successful in the military, you have to WANT to be Part of Something that's BIGGER than YOURSELF.
5. In the military, you can question social norms and rules, but NOT in public. Any questioning, will be done complaining with your friends/team in private. You can't protest, can't go on strike, can't give you opinion publicly, etc.
QUOTE: The Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson:
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."
6. You can WANT to be a pilot all you want. That doesn't mean you'll get to be a pilot. The academy definitely increases your chances. IF you're physically qualified, medically qualified, and pass your classes and will graduate, then you are indeed pretty much guaranteed to be a pilot if you want. However; assuming that all goes through well, you will then have quite a long training session in "Undergraduate Pilot Training". DEPENDING on how you do there, will determine if you will get to be a fighter pilot, cargo pilot, jets, props, helicopter, etc. IN OTHER WORDS, even if you get a pilot slot, there is NOTHING that guarantees you'll get to be a FIGHTER PILOT.\
7. Take this one step further; your chances of being in the astronaut program become even slimmer. And, simply being a pilot, if selected, requires a minimum of a 10 year commitment to the military. As a minimum. MORE if you decide to go in residence for grad school or other similar add-ons.

I could go on, but what is most important, is that you have to come to a realization for yourself. "WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE IN THE MILITARY AS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER"

If the reason is "TO SERVE YOUR COUNTRY", then that is a great reason. If your MAIN reason is for the pilot, astronaut, etc., then those aren't the right reasons. I am not saying any of this to discourage you from having ambition, dreams, and pursuing your passion. But THE NEEDS OF THE MILITARY COME FIRST!!! That means HOW MANY pilots they need, or any type of job. That determines if you have a chance at a particular job. "You WANT IT" isn't good enough. And if you CAN ACCEPT THAT, and accept the fact that you might be selected as an Intel Officer, or a Missile Officer, or a Security Forces Officer, or a number of other types of jobs in the air force, then you are EXACTLY the type of person the military is looking for.

But, if you're type that says: I'll graduate from the academy, and if they don't let me be a pilot/fighter pilot, then I will do the minimum 5 year requirement and get out; then you will honestly be miserable. And the military is probably not for you. That's not to say that you have to stay in for 20+ years to truly want to serve. But most of those that stay in for the minimum 5 years, didn't really have that decided on day one. They decided that they were proud of serving, but a military career wasn't for them. But they didn't go in with a "I MUST have this particular job, or I quit" attitude.

Just remember, you might NOT get to be a pilot. Even if you are a pilot, you MIGHT NOT get to be a fighter pilot. And even if you get to be a fighter pilot, you MIGHT NOT get to be an astronaut. If you are OK with all these "MIGHT NOTs", and you don't mind a set of RULES that you have NO SO SAY in MAKING or CHANGING; and you don't mind that the number one PRIORITY is "THE TEAM" and NOT "The Individual", then you'll do fine in the military. If none of that is ok with you, then you should REALLY RE-EVALUATE what it is you want.
 
Merlinity said:
My goals are as follows :
1- I want to become an astronaut pilot first and foremost.
2- I want to become a senator and political leader of this country.
3- I want to support individuals like me who have suffered within their own lives.
Click to expand...
Congratulations on your appointments ! It seems that you already know your answer in your heart..Look at what you listed as your 3 goals.."serving my Country is not up there"..( I know you said fighter pilot in your post). There are many schools that can get you to your goals without joining the military and it seems like you will not have a big problem getting accepted. Please know I am not criticizing anything you said, and I wish you all the best in what you decide..Please keep us updated.
 
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The Thailand opportunity definitely does not go away once getting to the academy. There are so many great opportunities to go abroad here to Thailand, mainland China, and other places like Singapore.

These opportunities can vary from a week of humanitarian relief to an entire semester at a civilian university. You can even spend time at a foreign service academy.

The opportunities that the academy offers are seriously what makes this place really special.
 
Christcorp said:
Merlinity said:
Yes. I totally took my time at two in the morning to write paragraphs asking for help all to.....be a troll.

Seriously.....? I'm asking a question that I really don't know the answer to.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you replied. Believe it or not, there are a lot of trolls that sign in to forums, make only one post, never come back, and try to get a lot of people to get into a debate.

But; onto your question.

You have a lot of great ambitions. I applaud that. I also think you have a lot of good qualities for potential leadership. There are a few things you have to realize if you truly care about going to the academy.

1. The academy is not a finite goal; like going to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc. The academies are simply a MEANS of becoming a commissioned officer in the military; and becoming a military leader. Yes, you receive a college degree, but it's just one of a number of paths to becoming a commissioned officer.
2. Being a pilot, let alone a fighter pilot, would simply be your job in the military. It's not a lifestyle. You will spend a lot more hours/days on the ground, behind a desk, doing paperwork, etc. then you will be flying.
3. Some of the things you mentioned about yourself, you will have to "Reflect on" to determine if the military is actually the right place for you. (Academy OR ROTC). For instance, when you say: "the thought that someone is telling me I can't do something". A large part of BEING in the military, is about rules and regulations telling you that you CAN'T DO SOMETHING. Especially during any type of training.
4. The military is 100% about "THE TEAM". It's NEVER about the INDIVIDUAL. That doesn't mean there isn't "INDIVIDUALITY". It simply means, that the individual talents and desires become part of a collective, for the betterment of "THE TEAM". It's ALWAYS about the TEAM. To be successful in the military, you have to WANT to be Part of Something that's BIGGER than YOURSELF.
5. In the military, you can question social norms and rules, but NOT in public. Any questioning, will be done complaining with your friends/team in private. You can't protest, can't go on strike, can't give you opinion publicly, etc.
QUOTE: The Charge of the Light Brigade by Alfred, Lord Tennyson:
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred."
6. You can WANT to be a pilot all you want. That doesn't mean you'll get to be a pilot. The academy definitely increases your chances. IF you're physically qualified, medically qualified, and pass your classes and will graduate, then you are indeed pretty much guaranteed to be a pilot if you want. However; assuming that all goes through well, you will then have quite a long training session in "Undergraduate Pilot Training". DEPENDING on how you do there, will determine if you will get to be a fighter pilot, cargo pilot, jets, props, helicopter, etc. IN OTHER WORDS, even if you get a pilot slot, there is NOTHING that guarantees you'll get to be a FIGHTER PILOT.\
7. Take this one step further; your chances of being in the astronaut program become even slimmer. And, simply being a pilot, if selected, requires a minimum of a 10 year commitment to the military. As a minimum. MORE if you decide to go in residence for grad school or other similar add-ons.

I could go on, but what is most important, is that you have to come to a realization for yourself. "WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE IN THE MILITARY AS A COMMISSIONED OFFICER"

If the reason is "TO SERVE YOUR COUNTRY", then that is a great reason. If your MAIN reason is for the pilot, astronaut, etc., then those aren't the right reasons. I am not saying any of this to discourage you from having ambition, dreams, and pursuing your passion. But THE NEEDS OF THE MILITARY COME FIRST!!! That means HOW MANY pilots they need, or any type of job. That determines if you have a chance at a particular job. "You WANT IT" isn't good enough. And if you CAN ACCEPT THAT, and accept the fact that you might be selected as an Intel Officer, or a Missile Officer, or a Security Forces Officer, or a number of other types of jobs in the air force, then you are EXACTLY the type of person the military is looking for.

But, if you're type that says: I'll graduate from the academy, and if they don't let me be a pilot/fighter pilot, then I will do the minimum 5 year requirement and get out; then you will honestly be miserable. And the military is probably not for you. That's not to say that you have to stay in for 20+ years to truly want to serve. But most of those that stay in for the minimum 5 years, didn't really have that decided on day one. They decided that they were proud of serving, but a military career wasn't for them. But they didn't go in with a "I MUST have this particular job, or I quit" attitude.

Just remember, you might NOT get to be a pilot. Even if you are a pilot, you MIGHT NOT get to be a fighter pilot. And even if you get to be a fighter pilot, you MIGHT NOT get to be an astronaut. If you are OK with all these "MIGHT NOTs", and you don't mind a set of RULES that you have NO SO SAY in MAKING or CHANGING; and you don't mind that the number one PRIORITY is "THE TEAM" and NOT "The Individual", then you'll do fine in the military. If none of that is ok with you, then you should REALLY RE-EVALUATE what it is you want.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this! My DS received his TWE April 12th and it kind of turned his world upside down. It is not that he has not moved on but it unsettled him and is now not very focused. He is visiting Embry Riddle this weekend and plans to enroll AFROTC. Your post is very helpful. Thank you!
 
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