Class of 2017 Service Selection Stats

ktnatalk

ktnatalk

Sailor. Shipmate. Parent.
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Class of 2017 Service Selection Stats per one Company Officer:

1066 Received Service Assignments
798 Navy
266 Marine Corps
2 cross-commission into Air Force
95% Unrestricted Lines
4.6% Restricted Lines
913 received their 1st choice
9% received 2nd choice
2% received 3rd choice

Good luck to these future Ensigns and Second Lieutenants, Leaders of Consequences as VADM Carter called them!
 
Kinda flipping some of those stats ...

86% received first choice
9% received 2nd choice
2% received 3rd choice

That means 3% didn't get any of their top 3 choices (approximately 32). I'd be interested to know the distribution of those 32 and where they fell in class rank.
 
I wouldn't put too much weight on the percentages in terms of getting one's choice without knowing more. For example, do the percentages include only URL or also restricted/staff? Do they include folks who are going to med school?

From what I've heard, almost everyone -- if not everyone -- gets first, second or third choice. I would be very surprised if 32 people didn't get at least 3rd. And my guess is that if someone didn't get at least their third choice, that person may not have been too wise in putting down his/her choices.
 
Agree with 85. The one exception would be sub draft. Some people could of had it last or very low on the list and gotten sub drafted. I believe I heard there was a 'draft' this year, but not sure on number.
 
NavyHoops said:
Agree with 85. The one exception would be sub draft. Some people could of had it last or very low on the list and gotten sub drafted. I believe I heard there was a 'draft' this year, but not sure on number.
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sub drafted = picked for submarine fleet even though it wasn't first (or maybe even second) choice?

If so, any thoughts on why there was such a need for sub officers?
 
sub drafted = picked for submarine fleet even though it wasn't first (or maybe even second) choice?
If so, any thoughts on why there was such a need for sub officers?
Click to expand...

The USN and USMC give USNA a "quota" for each warfare community based on the needs of the service. They need a certain number of submariners. There is a limit on the number of women who can go subs b/c only certain subs have berthing for women. However, since subs was opened to women, there have been more women who want subs than slots. For guys, the opposite is sometimes true. There aren't enough guys who have the academic creds to go subs who select subs. Thus, in order to fill the quota, they occasionally must "draft" men to go subs.

For obvious reasons, USNA doesn't want to "draft" people to go subs. They try to "encourage" people to select subs voluntarily. But needs of the Navy always trump personal desires, so if they aren't going to fill the quota with volunteers, some are "voluntold."

As to why people don't want to go subs . . . I'm sure there are lots of reasons. Some of them might include: long and very difficult training (about 18 months) in not very glamorous locations; spending a lot of time under water without seeing the sky; reputation of the community being very (trying to thing of the right word) up-tight; a real desire to be a pilot or Marine, etc. And probably some other things.
 
I can not find any specific numbers for how many of the class of 2017 will go to each service, but typically between 130-140 midshipmen go sub. That number has been in that range for at least the past 3 years. I don't think it is a matter of needing more sub officers, but rather a need for more midshipmen to want to and be qualified to go sub.

And as 85 says I don't think the midshipman is voluntold to go sub and subs would be one if not their first service selection.
 
Oh, I definitely think some mids historically have been "forced" to go subs. Not saying it happened this year, but it has happened in the past. If memory serves, mids have to list 6 warfare specialties. I think when you add them up, there aren't many more than 6 for those who haven't screened for EOD or SEAL. Let's see: Navy pilot, NFO, SWO, subs, USMC ground, USMC pilot, USMC FO, Cyber Warfare. So, if you don't want to be a Marine (and that also typically requires completing Leatherneck), there are only 5. So, subs is probably on their list, just at the bottom. :rolleyes:
 
You only have to put USN/USMC pilot if you have the ASVAB scores and are medically qualified for it. Not sure about now, but you had to put Spec War/Spec Ops back in the day even if you didn't screen for it (as long as you were physically qualified for it - back before eye surgery... if you couldn't be a pilot due to eye sight, you weren't going to be a SEAL, but with lasik that has changed).

According to Annapolis Capital Paper:

SWO - 246
SEALS - 36
Navy Pilot - 240
USMC Ground - 173

They didn't give details on all of them as NFO and a bunch of others are missing. I know I saw a list of them all, but can't seem to find it. Will keep digging.
 
IMG_2413.JPG Here are the numbers released by USNA AAF. Notice they are off by a few from the numbers I originally posted. These numbers do get adjusted for various reasons and I wouldn't try to read into that too much.

As @NavyHoops, @5Day and @usna1985 said, "needs of the service" do sometimes interfere with personal desires. Mids can "early select" into submarine service and receive $15K. Those who know they want subs often elect to do so. Those who think they will be "drafted" sometimes voluntarily early select for the money as well.

Mids cannot go subs without passing the interview with the Admiral from Naval Reactor, and not every Mid has the aptitude for Nuclear Power training.

For your extra reading pleasure: http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=90649

@coachkarl: have fun with the numbers! :)
 
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coachkarl said:
Kinda flipping some of those stats ...
That means 3% didn't get any of their top 3 choices (approximately 32). I'd be interested to know the distribution of those 32 and where they fell in class rank.
Click to expand...

That's an appallingly high number that never existed in the past and is becoming increasingly more common. Service "Selection" has moving more and more toward Service ASSIGNMENT. It's a shame that so many young men and women who managed to gain admission into the Navy's premiere officer training program have to start their military career with the most profound of disappointments. The benefit of attending the Naval Academy is losing its luster over other commissioning programs - like NROTC and OCS. To me, that's sad.
 
Memphis, I see your point, but with all due respect, lots have changed since you graduated. From one third leaving in the past to very few leaving voluntarily today. Lots of new opportunities exist today as well. If 32 Mids out of over 1000 did not get one of their top choices, I believe it is "acceptable" in the big scheme of things.
 
Not to mention eye surgery has changed things. This rule changed for many of my underclassman and changed the dynamic. For my class if you had good eye balls, you got a pilot slot! SEALs only had 15 spots and no eye surgery allowed. I know in previous classes they had a few who were NFO drafted. Have not heard if that happened this year. It is service assignment, not selection. Also I believe they had a new dynamic this year for SWO with 'blue chips.' I heard that COs could request Mids who did their 1/C cruise on their ship. Any current Mids know the details of this new option? Any additional obligation for doing this? Anyomits on numbers of who can be requested?
 
@ktnatalk so if you early select subs you get a bonus. If you wait and select subs at the service selection you get no bonus. Is that correct?
 
NavyHoops said:
I know in previous classes they had a few who were NFO drafted.
Click to expand...

In years past, SWO was something you did because you were not qualified for anything else or it was something you actually wanted to do. I've heard midshipmen joke, saying, "NFO is the new SWO."

It's not unusual for the academy to come up short for the sub quota so they try to "draft" qualified midshipmen to meet that quota. It's quite a process of coercion. NFO is another quota they often have difficulty meeting - but the only "qualification" for NFO is medical and that they didn't completely bomb the ASTB. Academic achievement or coursework is not an issue. They just need bodies to fill the quota and they are easy to find.
 
Couple of thoughts. First, my understanding about the SWO "blue chip" issue is that it works both ways. If the ship AND the mid like each other, the mid can get that ship. However, if the either wasn't fully satisfied, the mid can/must choose a different ship.

As for service "selection" (in my day) or "assignment" (today), not sure the change is as dire as it seems. First, in the past, "selection" was based on your OOM and your vision. Thus, those with great eyes in the bottom of the class often had more options than those with bad eyes who stood higher. Second, when your turn came, you took what was left. Thus, if you really, really wanted to be a Marine and were really, really suited for it but stood too low in your class, guess what? IOW, just because you got to "choose" doesn't mean you received your "choice," although I'll grant that you did get a choice of what was still left.

Third, today there are "screeners" and first class cruise options that help both the mid and the service decide if it's a good fit. In our day, a LOT of folks went USMC either just to fly (wanted to be pilot, no interest in the Marines) or went SEAL/EOD with no real prep. While some of these folks did well in the long run, a lot more did not. Today, there is more of a "matching" process that should result in young officers who are more suited for their chosen fields and thus hopefully happier and more successful. Fourth, the nuc draft existed in our day. Rare but it did happen -- so now it's the NFO draft. There will always be jobs that are perceived as "less desirable" and they still have to be filled. In that vein, welcome to "needs of the Navy." It is something that will hit again and again and again and most of the time it sucks.

The bottom line is that it's not as if mids in my day had a 100% chance of getting their first, or even second, choice. Yeah, the folks at the top did but once you started to hit the middle of the class, all bets were off. And, I'm not sure as much thought/preparation went into the choice as happens today. It's really too soon to tell whether the new process will result in happier jr. officers and less attrition -- only time will tell.
 
5Day said:
@ktnatalk so if you early select subs you get a bonus. If you wait and select subs at the service selection you get no bonus. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
If you waited or drafted you still get a bonus. I believe it will then be at graduation and we all know how much the Mids will be missing out due to the double-digit interest rate we have, if they didn't blow it on a sport car! :p
 
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