CO Leak

[2012kpmam]

We heard that an administrator told the students that the boilers had not been serviced and that caused the back of CO.

At this time no one had really told us what had happened, who is responsible, and what the plan is to hold that person accountable.

In addition, no one had apologized to the mids or the parents for the very near miss of a potentially horrendous incident.

Were the boilers properly serviced?
Who is responsible for their maintenance?
Were they properly installed?

Hey, isn't this an engineering school that teaches the students how to do exactly the above? Boilers are their business!! Get the teachers down to the boiler room, especially the engine teachers, and let's get a report on what exactly happened here.

 

[cmakin]

At one time the steam for heat and other services at the Academy was supplied by two Liberty Ship boilers on the grounds. That changed my senior year due to the cost. I can tell you that up until then we always had plenty of heat and hot water. Well, except for the rooms in the "Fishbowl". Those rooms never got warm enough. I am glad that I only lived there my Third Class year.

 

[facguynavy]

Missing It

I am a former KP mid and now work facilities planning and budgeting for DoD. I want to share my insights about how to best get resolutions to these type of issues. Everyone seems to believe that MMA or MARAD or NAVFAC staff could snap fingers and make all that ails KP disappear. And what ails KP is what affects many DoD facilities, the sustainment budgets for facilities have for a long time been so underfunded that a facility manager can do nothing but perform breakdown maintenance because the maintenance backlog is so huge. Here's the skinny, the only people that can make money rain are Congress. Congress alone has the power of the purse. You need to contact the Congress critters for your home district and the Congress critters that have KP in their district. Complaining to MMA or MARAD, while they are closest and most easily accessible to vent frustration, is probably like preaching to the choir. No one wants crappy facilities, but they can't expend more funds than they are given (Anti Deficiency Act). Want things better, go get your Congress critters engaged. Also, federal properties tend to be exempt from local/state requirements.

 

[NYBEAR]

Missing it. But I just seen it !

facuynavy- Thanks for your honest and shocking information.

I was on campus the other day and there was a mobile trailer/ boiler, oil fueled, on the lawn in front of Barry/Jones, crime scene tape all around the trees cordoning it off.

However, there is still no hot water in Barry/Jones! .The mids from Barry/Jones told me they are still heading to O'hara to shower!

C'Mon. I could send my nephew who is an apprentice plumber here in New York, and I am certain that he and his boss could have hot water flowing in the barracks in a few hours from permanent units, if not, definitely from the portable units out on the lawn that have hoses extending into the utility rooms in the basement.

What gives? DISGRACEFUL, in my opinion

 

[jasperdog]

Sorry Guys I'm Not Missing It You Are...

Sure money always helps but this issue wasn't about or caused by money. The money was there to pay the facilities folks at KP to fix the HVAC - they just screwed the pooch and put the duct work in wrong resulting in a negatively pressurized building.

Just like whoever took advantage of the avenue that as facguynavy says is available to the Academy as a Federal Institution to disregard/ignore state laws that mandate every other College in NY State other than West Point have CO detectors. Why not ask if there are or are not CO detectors -wired in to a central monitoring station at West Point. I bet there are and I bet they've been there since 2005 or before that even.

More money in the hands of incompetent management probably won't fix anything. In fact GAO reports point to lots of mishandling and mismanagement of money by lots and lots of folks in our Government. Of course that's not the only place that MARAD's incompetence is so evident but I'll leave that for another day.

Finally, I don't think I am preaching to the choir, the facilities staff at USMMA doesn't seem competent to me nor do they seem to care. That said, they are not the problem the problem is a MARAD Administrator who is doing his best to close the place after he finishes tearing down the industry the Academy is supposed to serve. All the while of course saying just the opposite - it's the big lie all over again, the only thing missing are the Bund meetings.

 

[KPMum2012]

the facilities staff at USMMA doesn't seem competent to me nor do they seem to care.

I've avoided adding to this thread, because we've been going through a frustrating stretch with KP and I didn't want to come across as excessively negative. But I believe jasperdog is correct about the facilities staff. I have just had the opportunity to talk in depth with our DD and she provided several examples of just this incompetence and neglect.

The air filter in her room in 2 Co. has not been changed since the barracks re-opened after renovation. She describes it as fuzzy enough that you could cut it up and make it into a teddy bear. A friend was having nasty sinus problems that went away as soon as his filter was changed. Facilities staff have started to come through and change the filters but ran out of filters. How do they not know how many they need? How long will our DD have to suffer sinus problems, etc. before her filter is finally changed? If she knew the size (she's at home right now) we would get one ourselves and let her change it.

DD reports regularly getting food odors through the vent system that seem to come from Delano. Possibly a sign of something not right with the ductwork?

How about the shower where the valve broke so that it could not be turned off, but instead sprayed straight hot water at high pressure non-stop? That was called in as an emergency on a Friday morning. Plumber was a no-show through Monday in spite of work orders submitted daily. Meanwhile the tile grout washed away, the finish on the shower head blistered, the paint bubbled and the shower stall is covered in black mold and mildew. Mids finally requested, and were given, permission to turn off the water to the shower block on Monday night. Facilities staff are repairing the damage by simply scraping the bubbled paint off and painting over the mess.

2 Co. is newly renovated. So why is the heat on one side of the passageways stuck on full so that the halls are always 90 degrees? DD's room is on that side of the hall and the thermostat is on that wall. So the thermostat is affected by the heat from the hallway, but the heat doesn't get into the room to heat it properly. But because the thermostat thinks it's hot, they get cold air blowing instead of heat.

I find this situation disgraceful and, frankly, scary. In the end, this sort of neglect costs more than doing the repairs properly in the first place and meanwhile the health of the mids suffers.

 

[Gov'tEmployee]

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before posting "one man's opinion." You keep referring to an incompetent maintenance staff, when in fact it wasn't the "maintenance staff" that installed the ductwork, nor is the maintenance staff whining about any work they have to perform around the Academy. It pains me to hear all the armchair quarterbacks sitting around in states like Virginia assessing the blame on the maintenance staff. While we're small in number, the staff is highly dedicated to the needs of the midshipmen and strive to make their time here as comfortable as we possibly can. If there is anyone to blame, look to the administrators who control the purse strings, the decision makers who accept the incompetent work of contractors and the one's developing the hiring practices here. There seems to be more of a demand for assistant underwater basket weaving coaches in the Athletics department than there is for professional plumbers, electricians and carpenters. Time after time after time the maintenance staff has brought up issues of code violations performed by contractor's hired by the administration; they fall on deaf ears. As a veteran "maintenance staffer," we were at our best when this work was performed in house. Unfortunately with the downsizing of the department and the increased use of incompetent contractors, we've only inherited their poor workmanship and spend a considerable amount of time correcting their mistakes.

All I can say is how dare you make the statements you do when you haven't walked a mile in my shoes. It's easier to pass judgement based on unsupported opinions miles from Long Island. Shame on you.

 

[Luigi59]

Perhaps you should get your facts straight before posting "one man's opinion." You keep referring to an incompetent maintenance staff, when in fact it wasn't the "maintenance staff" that installed the ductwork, nor is the maintenance staff whining about any work they have to perform around the Academy. It pains me to hear all the armchair quarterbacks sitting around in states like Virginia assessing the blame on the maintenance staff. While we're small in number, the staff is highly dedicated to the needs of the midshipmen and strive to make their time here as comfortable as we possibly can. If there is anyone to blame, look to the administrators who control the purse strings, the decision makers who accept the incompetent work of contractors and the one's developing the hiring practices here. There seems to be more of a demand for assistant underwater basket weaving coaches in the Athletics department than there is for professional plumbers, electricians and carpenters. Time after time after time the maintenance staff has brought up issues of code violations performed by contractor's hired by the administration; they fall on deaf ears. As a veteran "maintenance staffer," we were at our best when this work was performed in house. Unfortunately with the downsizing of the department and the increased use of incompetent contractors, we've only inherited their poor workmanship and spend a considerable amount of time correcting their mistakes.

All I can say is how dare you make the statements you do when you haven't walked a mile in my shoes. It's easier to pass judgement based on unsupported opinions miles from Long Island. Shame on you.

So the mold and mildew in the shower is the incompetent contractor's fault?

 

[Gov'tEmployee]

I have ripped out and reinstalled a number of shower ceilings in the newly contractor renovated barracks so our plumber's could fix the faulty piping. Or maybe it's the poor cleaning job performed by the regiment.

 

[nadofr8dog]

Whether it's due to setting correct priorities for disbursement of funds, priority in staffing, overseeing maintenance projects, maintaining cleanliness, to a high pressure water leak running for three days, it all boils down to a severe lack of leadership. Hopefully the new Commandant, no matter what his background, will aggressively tackle the problem areas which come under his purview, and maybe some that don't.

As for the leak, I'm not sure what the duties and responsibilities of the Company Officers are, but I would maintain that it is time to clean house. I know that two are ex-Marines and they surely aren't taking care of their troops as they were taught in the Marines, even if the leak wasn't in one of their companies.

 

[KPMum2012]

I'm sorry that Gov'tEmployee feels unjustly blamed for these situations. I am much less interested in assigning blame than in having the system-wide issues recognized. And addressed! No, I don't know who prioritizes various budget items and I do understand that money assigned for specific purposes can not just be reallocated. But the fact is that there is a problem and midshipmen are suffering for it and the long-term costs of dealing with the consequences down the line are going to be much higher than those of addressing these problems now. It's a shame it took such a major incident, with lives threatened, to bring these issues to light.

 

[jasperdog]

In this case, I could care less what Gov'tEmployee feels or for that matter NavyFacGuy thinks. My facts are straight, Fact 1) My son was almost killed by incompetence. Fact 2) The maintenance staff joked about putting the silly CO detectors in the barracks after the event. They were overheard by several midshipmen that had almost died because of the event. Fact 3) Administrator Matsuda has done nothing of note that is positive for the USMMA, early on he "talked a good game" but other than that all he has done was attack the institution, it's alumni, it's traditions and now he has done nothing worth doing to address a situation where 40+ current midshipmen could have died. Fact 4) A competent maintenance and facilities staff, which includes the head of that department, would have ensured the HVAC system and boilers were properly serviced in a timely fashion and that any modifications were properly completed. If the work was done by a contractor, who do you think was suppossed to QC/QA and sign off the work by the contractor? If the contract didn't require that it should have who writes those contracts and SOWs? If it's not the facilities engineering group at KP then I'll stop picking on them; except how do they let a world exist where they aren't in charge of the facilities, if they are the facilities staff/guys?

You won't convince me this wasn't/isn't someone's fault, whoever it is you almost killed my son, so yeah, I think you should be held accountable from top to bottom. If I don't want that to happen (accountability, which some are calling blame), maybe the parents of the next group of midshipmen won't be so lucky. Who is responsible for providing a safe and habitable barracks at KP?

 

[jjohnson55]

Perhaps the alumni assocation would request a visit by the Inspector General before someone else does.

 

[noworries]

can we all agree its time to stop pointing fingers and find a way to get this fixed. Anyone who has stepped foot on the campus can see the facility needs attention. Anyone who has talked to a mid knows they are a cut above. Anyone who has talked to an alumnus knows they can effect change. Anyone who knows anyone being considered knows they have potential and should be pushed to the forefront. Anyone who knows anything about carbine monoxide knows how dangerous it is. Let's act like professionals and work together to resolve the underlying issues.

 

[2014midship]

noworries-Did your son or daughter escape death at USMMA?
Easy to preach when you are looking from the outside in.

 

[Ashore]

I suggest readers of this thread and forum view the column written by the Chairman of the Alumni Association. It is in the current issue of the Kings Pointer and can be found on line.

 

[Luigi59]

I suggest readers of this thread and forum view the column written by the Chairman of the Alumni Association. It is in the current issue of the Kings Pointer and can be found on line.

I suggest that KP alum also look at the total donations to their alumni association in 2011 listed by class year.

From Page 12 - http://www.usmmaaf.com/s/1175/index.aspx?sid=1175&gid=1&pgid=335

Class of:

2000 = $0
2001 = $28k
2002 = $0
2003 = $0
2004 = $0
2005 = $0
2006 = $7k
2007 = $0
2008 = $0
2009 = $0
2010 = $0
2011 = $22k

Wow.

 

[Mongo]

Wow.

Reading the column from the Chairman of the Alumni Foundation in the same issue, it seems obvious why alumni are not contributing. GMATS, initially funded with alumni donations, is being shut down and assets are being confiscated by MARAD. It seems that offers of alumni donations are being rejected, use of non-appropriated funds are being curtailed, and previously NAPI-funded projects are being shut down. Seems to be that someone in the MARAD chain of command feels that the way to micromanage is to totally control the purse strings of the organization and the easiest way to do that is to totally disallow anything over which he does not have total control. What is one good logical reason that the alumni was not permitted to fund a field house? If I were an alumni, I would not donate either.

 

[jasperdog]

If you are going to talk about a book lets read it cover to cover please...

Luigi and others:
Relative to comments about the dismal donor participation rates of recent graduating alumni classes: I know you do read the available information on these subjects cover to cover. I also know that discussions of Alumni Donations really have little, if anything to do with the CO leak and MARADs reaction and response. That said I do feel the link to Charlie Hill's latest Message to Alumni, of which I am one, just as I am a parent of a current midshipmen who could have died as a result of the CO leak and was treated for CO poisoning due to it, is on topic, and telling. As to the general reaction to the Alumni donations report I call readers attention to a couple of things if you do go read the current issue of the Kings Pointer:

- Page 5 message from the President, Capt. Jim Tobin: December 2011 saw $772K of unrestricted donations and brought the Foundation to within 1% of it's annual goal. Also please note Jim's report doesn't include the current state of donations or finances of the USMMA Sailing Foundation which helps support waterfront programs along with the USMMAAF.

- Page 6 December 2011 gifts to the Academy from USMMAAF total over $288K.

- Page 12: Alumni Reunion Class Pledges (these are the Annual Class Gifts from Classes with "5 year" anniversaries) total ~$1.2M.

Yes to be sure it is disappointing and frankly troublesome that as Jim Tobin indicates ~18% are carrying the rest. I will come clean and tell you, I am and have been part of the 18% for several years, after all it only seemed right to me that I participate and support my Alma Mater as I gained success in life and even more so that I do so once our son decided to attend KP as well. I've also been an active alumnus for many years and big supporter of the school. Like Charlie Hill, my professional interests are such I can be unconstrained in my allegiances and uninfluenced by the politics that seem to prevail in and around MARAD today, and I too am very concerned and vigilant relative to what this current administration is doing vis-a-vis to my Alma Mater. I will also tell you that everything that Charlie writes about is and continues to be reasons I routinely hear as to why classmates are either not going to donate or are limiting their participation with our own Class's reunion gift for this year's upcoming homecoming. Like Mr. Hill, I'm not sure what MARAD is thinking with their recent and ongoing current actions but they are very hurtful to the Academy in general and to our ability as an Alumni organization to increase donor participation in particular.

That said if you read the magazine from cover to cover and take a look at overall Alumni contributions and offers of assistance in total over the years, I think you'll conclude that while participation % is problematic and we, USMMA Alumni, like many other groups, could do more, neither we, the staff or prior Board of GMATS, or Melville Hall are the problem. Further, all had and continue to have as our primary interest and goal the continued health and welfare of the Academy, it's traditions, and the current Regiment of Midshipmen.

 

[Mongo]

- Page 5 message from the President, Capt. Jim Tobin: December 2011 saw $772K of unrestricted donations and brought the Foundation to within 1% of it's annual goal. Also please note Jim's report doesn't include the current state of donations or finances of the USMMA Sailing Foundation which helps support waterfront programs along with the USMMAAF.

- Page 6 December 2011 gifts to the Academy from USMMAAF total over $288K.

- Page 12: Alumni Reunion Class Pledges (these are the Annual Class Gifts from Classes with "5 year" anniversaries) total ~$1.2M.

So why are USNA annual donations, and probably WP being similiar, about 20 times greater than USMMA? This ratio also does not include any NAAA (athletic) contributions. Surely we don't have 20 times as many graduates. And I am almost positive that our graduates are not 20 times as financially successful as MMA grads. My class alone raised $2 million for our last major project and are now in the process of raising $10 million for our next one. That is $1.2M per year for a single class, same as your entire alumni.

As Luigi pointed out, USMMA DOES have a contribution/donation/giving problem.