Cold Feet

I don't mean this as a wisecrack at all, but does she want to serve? If she doesn't go to USNA, does Plan B involve another accession path? I can tell you from personal experience, when DS (recently plebe-no-more) expresses doubt (and he does) I ask him whether he still believes the things that caused him to embark on this path. The answer so far is always yes. At that point, I tell him that PS and plebe year are (at least with respect to the things to which he is typically reacting negatively) largely rites of passage and that once he gets to youngster year things will be different. I also tell him thought that although they will be different, they will not necessarily be better. Ultimately, my view is that he should give youngster year a chance and see how it hits him. At this point in the conversation he usually tells me that he's just *****ing and has no real intention of leaving. The point is that the Navy understands the need for time to decide and generally provides that. The other thing I've told him is that if he wants to leave, he'd better have an alternate plan that does not involve busking his way through Europe, at least not if he expects me to be writing checks.
 
The "gung-ho position" pops up here often. When My own DD was making her college choice, she was greatly relieved to learn that she could leave the USNA without any service obligation any time up to the point that she signs a 'Two for Seven Letter Agreement' at the end of her 2nd year at the USNA. She entered the academy thinking maybe 2 and out, but more likely "5-n-dive", followed by Grad School. I guess you'd say she wasn't very "Gung-Ho". She now believes that she may have found "her life’s work" in the USN. Point/s are: many kids enter the USNA uncertain of their desire for a career in the military; the USNA accommodates that uncertainty with a 2year no-obligation period; and 18yr olds goals and motivations are kinda fluid.

Dadof2; Our DD entered the USNA with a commitment to herself that she would do at least one year at USNA.

Two reasons for this:

1) If she completed Plebe year, she'd know that she'd made it through the toughest year; that she left of her own choosing not because it was too hard.

2) I did make the point to DD that once she completed a full year at USNA, (drawing salary and paying her own taxes) she would be emancipated. We (Mom and I) don't qualify for any financial aid and DD's other choices were Ivy League. Between tution, cost of living and travel to/from home on the West Coast I figured that Yale was going to cost around $75-$80K a year straight out of pocket. After that first year at USNA my DD could apply for aid based on her income not mine. That pencils to around $300K return on that first year, (or one semester more than you propose). We never pushed DD towards USNA because of money, (she will get the cash anyway), but I only had to advise her of the benefit of completing that first year once. The first of many "Adult Decisions" from my DD!

BTW: My DD "wouldn't want to be anywhere else". DD's mother, who clung to the exit after 2year option, wouldn't want her daughter to be anywhere else:.....her Dad is just flat-out envious of DD's plebe year experience and of her road ahead.
 
Just my 2 cents. DD will be plebe for 2021 and really went back and forth between USNA and her other top choice school. Made multiple pro/con lists, talked to probably over 20 current mids, recent grads, and distant grads both still in and out of active duty.

In the final 2 weeks before the May 1 deadline went on a road trip to her top choices and attended a CVW. One thing I noticed as a parent was that all the schools put on their absolute best foot forward to entice their accepted students to choose them. Even I wanted to apply to these schools after hearing how great they were! And this happened again and again with each of her top schools. The schools are very very good in this and I think it natural to see yourself at each one. In the end, it really came down to the people. The Mids she hung out with on CVW were the ones she wanted to hang with and be with. They were some of the "best" and most genuinely honest & real people she said she has ever met. It was still a very hard decision but in the end, it was a simple choice. She has never looked back.

I would recommend that your DD be very honest with herself and ask who does she want to spend her time with? What is it that raised doubt? If it's the experience at he other traditional colleges, just remind her that Campuses, libraries, parties, sports games, etc will always fade but the friendships and people you meet and know will be the lasting legacy of this time.

Good luck!
 
Dito vadad.

When my DD pulled the trigger on the USNA appointment she'd been holding for 4 months I asked "why Navy"; (largly becase Wife (the Ivy fan) was on overnight call and I knew there would be some explaining to do in the morning. DD said:
"Dad, between official and informal recuiting visits, I've met kids on teams all over the country. Honestly they don't differ much from one school to another and they aren't very interesting, or interested in very much beyond themselfs. The Mids were different, I left my visit to the USNA wanting to know more about every person I met there......Its the Mids Dad; I want to be part of that group of people."
Turned out DD had felt a pull to the USNA all along; at 17 she'd just been afraid of the commitment to a different path than all her friends were taking.

Enjoy the ride next year, lots of change happening Waaay fast.

BTW,she will have sports games to go to---she will have no choice in the matter. Navy football is awesome. Its fun to watch the team knowing that the kids playing are REAL students living in the same building attending the same classes as your daughter; a throw-back to what college football is supposed to be.
 
Dadof2; Our DD entered the USNA with a commitment to herself that she would do at least one year at USNA.

Good points about the full year commitment. My suggestion was to break down the commitment into smaller chunks, whether that is a semester or a year at a time probably works about the same. I think at minimum PS and an AC semester is needed to get a sense of fit, but the whole Plebe year makes sense. In addition to your points, completing Plebe year with Sea Trials, Herndon, etc., there is a real sense of having accomplished something great, and maybe something they couldn't have envisioned making it through a year ago.

"Everything you want is on the other side of fear."
Jack Canfield

^^Great quote. I have heard of something similar to this, but don't know the source. It went something like...when faced with a decision, ask yourself "what would I do if I wasn't afraid?"
 
Been Navy for a long time and I'm going to just put it out there knowing that there will be backlash.

Ever thought that maybe, just maybe they don't want to go. That its not about fear. That its just not what they had thought and are too afraid of just saying it to their parents! Why is it that we keep trying to CONVINCE people that they should go. Isn't adulthood about making a choice and living with it. Funny enough, I've read so many of you say, "make a choice and don't look back!" Maybe they've made their choice. No offense, but the last thing I want is a person standing next to me not really wanting to be there to begin with and just making it through. Also, the mention of money should NEVER come into play when talk of a SA or military comes up. IT SHOULD NEVER BE MENTIONED. Regardless of if you want to believe it or not, the talk of money makes kids in this scenario feel bad. Even if parents can afford college, it doesn't matter!
 
1990 --

I think that many of us who've posted on this thread have expressed the same sentiments, though perhaps a bit more gently. :)

Every year at this point, there are a bunch of 17 and 18-yr-old "kids" who are suffering normal "jitters" about heading out into the unknown of college life. Even more so for kids heading to SAs for reasons we all know so well. There is a small group of soon-to-be plebes (and doolies, etc.) who are having serious doubts. For some, those doubts are in fact very real and will lead to a hasty exit. For others, they are something to be worked through and some who were very worried before I-Day go on to fantastic military careers.

The fact is that it's hard to tell, especially when dealing with a teenager. If every kid who was nervous or had some doubts about PS, plebe year, SA life, the military etc. didn't show up on I-Day, there'd be about half the incoming class actually present.

I think your well taken point is that parents, friends and relatives should not try to convince someone with doubts that they aren't real. But, if you're a parent, how do you separate nervous anxiety from real concerns/doubts? I think we've all tried to offer some advice on that topic, but there is no easy answer.
 
Been Navy for a long time and I'm going to just put it out there knowing that there will be backlash.

Ever thought that maybe, just maybe they don't want to go. That its not about fear. That its just not what they had thought and are too afraid of just saying it to their parents! Why is it that we keep trying to CONVINCE people that they should go. Isn't adulthood about making a choice and living with it. Funny enough, I've read so many of you say, "make a choice and don't look back!" Maybe they've made their choice. No offense, but the last thing I want is a person standing next to me not really wanting tobe there to begin with and just making it through. Also, the mention of money should NEVER come into play when talk of a SA or military comes up. IT SHOULD NEVER BE MENTIONED. Regardless of if you want to believe it or not, the talk of money makes kids in this scenario feel bad. Even if parents can afford college, it doesn't matter!

Sometime at beginning of junior year when DS was getting serious and started talking about USNA to others, I had the "serious" chat with him. I explained that once he started the process a slow train would begin to build up speed. People would be impressed with his ambition and will want to help him along. Once it started rolling and building up speed, he may feel unable to get off the train. He may be afraid to disappoint those helping him. WE discussed how this had to be his decision alone. I didn't want my obvious pride in his choice to cloud his decision. To his credit, he didn't answer me right away. The next day he said, "Dad, I've thought long and hard on this. It is what I want. If that ever changes, I will let you know!" He hasn't looked back since.
 
No offense, but the last thing I want is a person standing next to me not really wanting to be there to begin with and just making it through.

For others, they are something to be worked through and some who were very worried before I-Day go on to fantastic military careers.
+1 --

Navy 1990 - I am assuming (and I know what happens when assume) you are an incoming 2021 Plebe and not Class of 1990 grad speaking from experience. (If the latter, I will happily delete). I also suspect that you are hard core and knew you wanted to attend USNA all the way. I know where you are coming from ...I had my whole career planned at 18, total 100% committment to a Navy career, and I took everything too seriously. I remember Classmates who came in with a lot more nonchalant attitude, had doubts about attending or serving, sometimes didn't seem to care, but always seemed to be having more fun (when they weren't serving restriction:)). When I went back for my 30th Reunion, what USNA 1985 said was 100% true -- many of those that I never imagined would stay in the Navy had great careers and others (like me) who were 100% committed as Plebes left the service. The point is, don't try to judge your Classmates motivation or commitment; some will surprise you.

As to your point about those that really don't want to be there, and are afraid to tell their parents ...you are 100% correct. I tell all of my Candidates that this has to be 100% their decision, and that nothing is worse than sitting in Bancroft Hall during Plebe Summer if you don't really want to be there. I think that's OP's challenge now --trying to determine if DD truly doesn't want to attend USNA , and if not, give her the support necessary to make the decision, or if it's simply a Cold Feet situation, letting her know that everyone in her Class feels the same way.
 
When we dropped my son off on R-Day at West Point last June, as we were getting the ten minute briefing in Eisenhower hall which ends with the 60 second goodbye, the gal right in front of us started crying and telling her mother, "I changed my mind and don't want to go; this is a mistake". The mother was distraught, and told her that it would be OK and that she wanted this, reminding her that she thought it out many times, and told her daughter she was just nervous. I felt fortunate that my kid was fired up about it right to the end. But I know every kid and his/her parent has at least some sense of nervousness going in.

Going to a service academy is a life changer in most ways; far more that going to a regular college. Basically, the kid will never again be a "resident" of the family home, but will essentially "visit" home for lack of a better word. Although there are two years to opt out of the commitment, very few do, and thus it is safe to conclude that the US military will take over from that point. Parents usually recognize that long before it sets in with the kids; but on R-Day (or I-Day) it becomes very real, and for some kids they think about it in the weeks leading up to that day. I think it is a healthy thing.

My son and I hung out a lot in the couple weeks before R-Day, just to really bond as much as we could before those opportunities would be in limited quantity. I asked him questions, basically to make certain that he had considered everything thoughtfully, and was comfortable with the choice he made. It was reassuring to me, and I think him too. I still ask him questions, and he has no regrets whatsoever. I think that is true with the overwhelming majority of those who attend service academies. They will have plenty of complaints, but there is nowhere else they would rather be.
 
Well, not sure what to do or how to help my DD, but she is starting to get cold feet and is reconsidering. Any advice greatly appreciated.

My wife is the one who normally post on this forum and after hearing her speak of the concerns of this young woman, I decided to share my perspective. Respectfully, after 23 years as a regular Navy Officer, I have earned the right to express my view. If this young lady’s choice is between the Ivy League and USNA, then she needs to choose Ivy League. USNA mission is to produce war fighters for our nations Navy & Marine Corp. Everyone has doubts, but if her concern is about giving up “9 years of her life”, then she needs to move over for a candidate who is willing to sacrifice his or her life for this country.
 
I agree with what Old Navy and 1985 both have said. There is a big difference of normal jitters, anxiety and excitement versus the other side of things. As long as this is her decision all along she will be fine. 99% of soon to be Plebes, Knobs, Rats, Doolies, Fish, etc will have some sort of anxiety, jitters mixed with excitement and some even having self doubt that they can do this. Everyone reacts differently. I never doubted my desire to attend USNA, I was terrified I wasn't good enough to make it. That drove me daily. As mentioned by mpk, some of these kids who get in or even attempt this path are revered in their towns. Someone earlier mentioned they held a parade for an appointee. Some kids get so wrapped up in this or the momentum becomes so great they feel like they can't back out of it or say no. These are the kids who go for the wrong reason. I always laugh at the movie Annapolis, but that part of the movie is true. It happens every year. Every few years we hear of a story of a kid in PT gear trying to escape in Plebe Summer and gets caught. We all sort of laugh at that, but I have seen it a few times and its these kids who don't know how to stop that momentum or go because it was Mom and Dad's decision not theirs. Only the OP and his DD knows what category these questions fall within.

I hear alot that those with lots of "moto" or any other phrase like that are the ones who really want to be there. Not true. Some of the most mild mannered people I knew at USNA and the USMC were the greatest leaders I knew and know to this day. It doesn't mean they didn't care, took their studies and duties seriously or were there for the wrong reasons. They just weren't ones who ran around yelling at Plebes all day or yelling moto things. Heck the SEAL selects out of my class were probably some of the most laid back and quiet people I know. And they wouldn't be wearing Tridents today if they were motivated and dedicated. Same thing I saw as a Marine. Some of my most vocal and motivated Marines on the outside crumbled under fire. "The quiet guy" or loner always seems to be the guy who becomes some amazing warfighter and leader when we are facing the worst. I watched one of my best Sergeants piss his pants in our first mortar attack. So please don't mistake that only those who are quiet or don't go full hooyah as those who don't want to be there or can't lead. The other day I had a classmate post a picture at a Change of Command with 3 of my classmates. None of us would have predicted those 3 would be where they are today. As mentioned by Old Navy, those who are still in and those who got out cannot be predicted on I Day. The guy who finished #1 in our class and was total hooyah rang out of BUDS with a week and left service after 5 years. Our anchor man is still serving today and had command. Its a long journey with so many challenges with an unpredictable outcome.
 
Respectfully, after 23 years as a regular Navy Officer, I have earned the right to express my view.

Absolutely, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect where you are coming from. Thank you for your service.

USNA mission is to produce war fighters for our nations Navy & Marine Corp.

No question that is the end result, but all of the incoming Plebes are 4 years from that point. The Mission of USNA is to "develop Midshipmen mentally, morally, and physically, to be Officers in the Naval Service..." USNA is not necessarily looking for ready made officers, but instead we looking for the best and brightest kids in the US who are interested in serving. Our biggest competition is the Ivy League schools, and many of our incoming class turns down the big name Ivy League schools as their Plan B.

Also, this is not issue of stepping aside and making room for another candidate. If this, or any other candidate, decides not to attend, Admissions will first evaluate the class size (based upon yield from Offers made). There is a wait list, which by this time is small, and it is possible that some lucky candidate would get that last minute call, but at this point its really a numbers game.
 
DS is still a year away, but I asked him about his commitment to this and if he felt pressured. He looked down at me and said "You're the one reminding me of rotc and other schools and asked me to consider WP, too. If my mind changes, I'll let you know."

He informed me he weighed the pros and cons and will continue to do so. Take the emotion out of the equation (hard for teens), and have her look pragmatically at her choices.
 
Thanks for the feedback - she's highly independent, been to it all, Summer STEM, CVW, NASS, Sports ID Camps, other college visits etc... Everything was fine and running smooth until she went on her last plan B college weekend visit back in April. Doubt crept in after that, and it's been all down hill since then. Just hate to see her make a mistake, she has yet to give me a real reason - I suspect she is being influenced by plebes or others posting on social media about the conditions and what they experienced etc.. - her only comment to me was all of a sudden not wanting to give up "9 yrs of her life".
You may just try to remind her that that she is not giving up 9 years of her life, she is getting a first class education and a lifetime of experiences that most of her civilian peers may never have. I'd hate to see her give up on an opportunity of a lifetime without even giving it a chance. Just MHO.
 
Before DS chose USNA, we were touring USAFA. The tour guides were two recent grads who had been temporarily assigned to USAFA. When the "How do you feel about owing the Air Force 5 years of your life" question came up, her answer gave me a new perspective. She said "I don't think of it as owing 5 years. I look at it this way. I am guaranteed employment for at least 5 years. I have money in my pocket right now and if I want to go to a concert, I can easily afford it. I have a friend who graduated from a regular college last May also. He doesn't have a job yet and has moved back in with his parents."
 
Absolutely, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect where you are coming from. Thank you for your service.



No question that is the end result, but all of the incoming Plebes are 4 years from that point. The Mission of USNA is to "develop Midshipmen mentally, morally, and physically, to be Officers in the Naval Service..." USNA is not necessarily looking for ready made officers, but instead we looking for the best and brightest kids in the US who are interested in serving. Our biggest competition is the Ivy League schools, and many of our incoming class turns down the big name Ivy League schools as their Plan B.

Also, this is not issue of stepping aside and making room for another candidate. If this, or any other candidate, decides not to attend, Admissions will first evaluate the class size (based upon yield from Offers made). There is a wait list, which by this time is small, and it is possible that some lucky candidate would get that last minute call, but at this point its really a numbers game.

I too am an "Old BGO" and respectfully disagree. I can tell you in no uncertain terms, if I was interviewing any candidate and they informed me that they were not fully committed, they would not receive a TOP 5% rating. If she are not fully committed to USNA, then she should give it up! You will not succeed at the academy without a full commitment. Service means sacrifice and most in the military today consider it an honor to serve. There is a big difference between COLD FEET and not being 100% committed. This late in the game to say you are concerned about #giving up 9 years of your life" is not the attitude of a future Naval Officer IMHO.
 
I too am an "Old BGO" and respectfully disagree. I can tell you in no uncertain terms, if I was interviewing any candidate and they informed me that they were not fully committed, they would not receive a TOP 5% rating. If she are not fully committed to USNA, then she should give it up! You will not succeed at the academy without a full commitment. Service means sacrifice and most in the military today consider it an honor to serve. There is a big difference between COLD FEET and not being 100% committed. This late in the game to say you are concerned about #giving up 9 years of your life" is not the attitude of a future Naval Officer IMHO.

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that the person who is not 100% committed is not going to get my 5% recommendation. Until not long ago, I viewed any lack of interest and motivation as a deal killer, but I really don't think that is the message coming from Admissions . When I am on this Forum, I try to reflect the what I hear and see coming from Admissions, not my personal beliefs on how things should be.
 
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