Cold Feet

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that the person who is not 100% committed is not going to get my 5% recommendation. Until not long ago, I viewed any lack of interest and motivation as a deal killer, but I really don't think that is the message coming from Admissions . When I am on this Forum, I try to reflect the what I hear and see coming from Admissions, not my personal beliefs on how things should be.

Thanks for your candid responses OLD NAVY BGO. Like most retired Naval Officers and BGO's you have very strong opinions on issues and I am thankful my husband was able to share his, on this respectful forum.

Now, Im speaking as a mom with no military experience, other than a spouse of a military member and a mom, to a son who will be attending an academy this summer. We set our son down long ago and again, very recently, and allowed him to express fears, anxieties, concerns etc. Afterwards we explained in no un-certain terms, if he ever changed his 100% commitment or changed his mind all together, to let us know and we would respect his decision. We let him know, that changing your commitments before your service begins is nothing to be ashamed of. However, we believe that to take this honor and not be 100% committed short changes themselves and others.

Like so many, our son is preparing to serve the finest military in the world and we are proud beyond belief. But if he changes his mind, we will be behind him 100% and respect the decision he makes. I believe that each and every candidate who has accepted an appointment should look in the mirror and ask the question, is this what I (me, not mom & dad, not my peers) really want and am I committed to giving 100% to becoming the best military officer I can be. If the answer is no to either of those questions, then serving this nation as a military officer is probably not the path for you. Either way, in closing, I encourage any candidate who might be experiencing cold feet to pray and seek Gods will for your life. God bless OUR TROOPS this Memorial Day Weekend~
 
Giving up 9 years of your life.....

In my first 13 months at USAFA, I went through BCT, ran the O Course, the A Course and a number of other challenges with people who were to become a 1000 of my closest friends for life. I had a backseat ride in an F16 during an air to air mission over the Gulf of Mexico, I jumped out of airplanes (earned my wings), flew gliders, and completed Survival School - all in the first 13 months. In the next year, I had an F-15 ride, flew over the north pole at 500' and I got paid every step of the way. Not all of that was fun - but it was/is a unique set of experiences

My DD just finished her first 11 months at USNA - she saw Navy lose to USAFA and USMA in football - thought the Army/Navy game was really cool, fired pistols and rifles, learned to fight fires on ships, made tremendous friends, completed Sea Trials and the Herndon Climb, went sailing, navigated a USNA Yard Patrol craft, is prepping for a submarine cruise to name just a few things. And she is just getting started - and she is getting paid to do it. And again - not all of this is fun, but they are experiences that few others get the opportunity to experience

I would consider that Living Life much more that giving up anything.

And it is not possible to develop such an expanded network of true friends outside of the military - or at least I have never seen it occur. I am certain my DD is at USNA partly because she sees how close I am to the people I went to USAFA with as well as those I served with on active duty. People passing through just stop by and we pick up where the last conversation ended (which might have been years ago)

If she doesn't think that is living - step aside because their is someone waiting in the wings.
 
Giving up 9 years of your life.....

In my first 13 months at USAFA, I went through BCT, ran the O Course, the A Course and a number of other challenges with people who were to become a 1000 of my closest friends for life. I had a backseat ride in an F16 during an air to air mission over the Gulf of Mexico, I jumped out of airplanes (earned my wings), flew gliders, and completed Survival School - all in the first 13 months. In the next year, I had an F-15 ride, flew over the north pole at 500' and I got paid every step of the way. Not all of that was fun - but it was/is a unique set of experiences

My DD just finished her first 11 months at USNA - she saw Navy lose to USAFA and USMA in football - thought the Army/Navy game was really cool, fired pistols and rifles, learned to fight fires on ships, made tremendous friends, completed Sea Trials and the Herndon Climb, went sailing, navigated a USNA Yard Patrol craft, is prepping for a submarine cruise to name just a few things. And she is just getting started - and she is getting paid to do it. And again - not all of this is fun, but they are experiences that few others get the opportunity to experience

I would consider that Living Life much more that giving up anything.

And it is not possible to develop such an expanded network of true friends outside of the military - or at least I have never seen it occur. I am certain my DD is at USNA partly because she sees how close I am to the people I went to USAFA with as well as those I served with on active duty. People passing through just stop by and we pick up where the last conversation ended (which might have been years ago)

If she doesn't think that is living - step aside because their is someone waiting in the wings.

AMEN and well said!
 
Heck the SEAL selects out of my class were probably some of the most laid back and quiet people I know. And they wouldn't be wearing Tridents today if they were motivated and dedicated

Word on this. One of the guys in my PS squad eventually became a career SEAL. Every time I think of it, a smile comes to my face (in a good way) b/c what Hoops said is absolutely true. He is probably the LAST person in our company we would ever have expected successfully pursue this path but he absolutely did!

The fact is that we're dealing with 17 and 18-yr-olds. With all due respect, most of them have no idea what they want or even what they're getting into. What does "being prepared to die for your country" mean when all you've done is live at home and go to school 8 hours a day for as long as you can remember?

I too used to expect candidates to be gung-ho -- and some still are. But as I've grown older -- and, I hope, wiser -- I realize that I can't predict who will succeed and who will fail. Who is steely and determined, but maybe not too vocal vs. who is a blowhard. Who will thrive under pressure -- and who will melt. I look for obvious signs of unsuitability but, having seen various outcomes from my candidates over the years, learned that I am not the ultimate judge and jury.

Back to the OP . . . no one, including you or your DD, can be sure how things will turn out. The best advice those of us who've been through it can give is to make sure she doesn't feel she's on a tidal wave that is inexorably carrying her to USNA and there's no way for her to get off. There is plenty of time and there are plenty of other opportunities to have a wonderful life outside of USNA and the military. Alternatively, she may realize she's just having the normal jitters and, a few months from now, when she says, "There's no place I'd rather be," this will all be a distant memory.
 
In my responses to Terrier, I assumed that because my DD had worked through concerns over making a nine-year commitment to the USN, that the circumstances surrounding a common indecision were similar. My DD's road to the Naval Academy was pretty short. The USNA was not a life long goal for her, and her choice involved no parental pressure (maybe some anti USNA pressure from both family and community). We are not a military family, quite the opposite, a majority of aunts/uncles are college profs. An almost total absence of information on life in the military made the commitment to 9years pretty daunting. In the end it was our daughters call to make. She showed up for IDay ready and willing to serve her 5years, ready to defend our constitution, AND knowing that she could opt out in year 1-2 if she needed to.

I assumed that Terrier's daughter would mirror, in some ways, my own daughter’s experience. Navy--1990 (correctly) pointed out that my daughter’s circumstances aren't everyone's circumstances. There are kids who feel the weight of family expectations, or feel trapped in a course of action chosen at 14-15-16yrs old.

Point taken. Now I ask that those of you who would have the USN do without plebes who carry uncertainty with them into IDay consider that these less certain plebes may not have the background knowledge of life in the service, or the burning desire to fly really fast, drive a ship Etc. that makes another plebe dead certain that he/she wants to be a "life-er" on IDay.

Consider also that somewhere along the way the USN made a determination that the interests of the service are best served by accepting these less certain DDs/DSs willing to trade a 5year service commitment for a BS at an exceptional university and an education that extends far beyond the class room. IF the Navy believed that its Officer Corps would be improved by accepting only those applicants prepared to make a 20year service commitment on IDay, I suspect the USN would be requiring plebes to sign up for 20yrs on IDay.

TERRIER ---if your daughter makes it to IDay, she will find lots of plebes who KNOW that they want to be naval officers for the next twenty years. She will also find lots of shipmates that carry some doubts with them. Plebes ready to give their best, commit to 5yrs service and see where it goes. Kids who might not be there but for a martin-baker option pre ‘2-for-7 Letter’. The USNA selection process has determined that both plebe types are worthy of their place in the class of 2021. Assuming you haven't pushed her into going to the USNA, I hope your DD makes it to IDay, and beyond. I am honestly grateful for my DD's experience this year. Your daughter just has to: 1) want more than a Std. college experience 2) understand and respect the mission of the USN 3) believe in herself, and her country. The USNA already belives in her-----and she will come to believe in the Mids around her.

Best of luck to you and your daughter

Last re: $ and a decision to attend the USNA; of course money has something to do with it. Just as quality of education has something to do with it, just as income post graduation has something to do with it, (USNA properly notes both whenever possible). Honor, Loyalty and Commitment are not precluded by consideration of the financial impact of a given choice/action. Again, the Navy appears to agree. I am sure the USN doesn’t believe that a Sub Officer is somehow less effective or genuine because he/she accepted a dollar incentive to go Subs, or that the USN expects less of a re-uped officer who was offered a bonus to stay in. The majority of kids my DD grew up with approached College Selection as if they deserved a sabbatical, and needed to find the best resort town to do a couple of years in. USC, IVYs, UCSD, McKeena, NYU, Etc., my kid looked at the numbers, (250-300k for a BA at an Ivy!!) and you can bet that had something to do with her decision; proud of her for that too! .........................Of course this is just argument, the words I thought needed saying are in the preceding Para.


PS: Thinking about it, ---how great that you USN folks feel so strongly about what you do-----Once again I am made envious of my DD and he road ahead of her.
 
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Last re: $ and a decision to attend the USNA; of course money has something to do with it.

I read Navy 1990's comment to suggest that Parents should not use this as a factor when talking to their sons and daughters about their desire to attend USNA, for fear that this might pressure someone into attending USNA that really doesn't want to be there. I understand the concern, but the truth is that financial incentive is a motivator for some and I have had candidates that are first in their families to go to college because USNA made it possible. That being said, I agree that parents should be careful to about encouraging attnding USNA because it will help the family finances, as that adds a lot of pressure.
 
Point taken, but how would they not know about costs? Should a kid really choose a school without inquiring into cost? Even if you have the cash, should it really be "Daddy I've picked USC, I need to pick out some sun dresses" and they don't know how much it costs?! BTW: I can hear my Dad saying, "Why are you going to pay to take the SAT? You are going to the UW, WSU (NO0ooo!) or to work".

Maybe the real point is, once again, that we all face unique circumstances. We discussed tuition (undergrad and grad) with DD, as I mentioned above I made my daughter aware of financial aid impact of being emancipated should she find that the USNA was not for her in the latter part of her decision process. I take the point that nothing including costs should make a kid feel forced toward an academy------- but it is part of the equation, that's life, and I don't see how the Kid can make a responsible decision with out looking at the $.

Now, I can picture some fat wealthy guy telling his weepy eyed kid that its USNA or a job at the plant, but:
1) Trust me, that aint my circumstance. DD is skilled and guiltless when it comes to spending Mom and Dads cash

2) ( More interesting) I think you guys (USNA alumni) address the decision to attend the USNA as a career/life choice. From that "Navy Man/Woman; USNA Grad" perspecitve money seems trivial even improper to include in the decision.

As the parent (non-military) of a plebe2b or the plebe2b it’s not a life choice. Its about: a) the undergrad school your child will attend; b) what those 5 years of service will look like for your child by way of personal growth; c) impact on Grad School, and d) "When will I have some grandchildren"(DWs). That is the bottom line deal, (that's the contract). There is nothing in the 5 and dive base-line contract about falling in love with the Navy and staying 15years 20years 25years. DW and I figured that if DD chose to stay in for 20 it would be because she did "fall in love" (GREAT!)-------- but that had littel to do with the contract/the math associated with the decision to attend the USNA. Looking at it as this way (as I'd bet most parents do), completely de-coupling $ from school choice makes about as much sense as excluding the academic standing of the university as a decision critiera.

My kid asked how much it would cost to go to Yale; (maybe because I'd mentioned that going to the UW would leave us better positioned to help with grad school). When I said 75K a year she was appalled----"for undergrad!?!". Money did play a role in DD's decision (I would have been disappointed if it didn't--- it would have been a "child's decision" otherwise). As it was applied in DD case, the impact of emancipation worked a lot like the 2-for-7 letter; it made the leap into the USNA less frightening, she could exit in one year and still have that year be highly productive (all be it from a strictly financial point of view). All moot now.


I'm not wound up about this. I 'd be curious to learn if the POV stuff #2 resonates with you---- I will be right in any case, but I am curious ;)
 
From that "Navy Man/Woman; USNA Grad" perspecitve money seems trivial even improper to include in the decision.

First, I didn't mean to imply that money is not an important consideration in any higher education decision, I was simply responding to the comment about Navy1990's suggestion that a parent shouldn't bring up the issue of cost to pressure DS/DD into attending. Of course its part of the equation, but better for the kid to recognize that than be at USNA because of parental pressure.

I'm not wound up about this. I 'd be curious to learn if the POV stuff #2 resonates with you---- I will be right in any case, but I am curious ;)

I was reluctant to go too deep into my own feelings on the issue because that's wasn't the point of this thread, but of course the issue resonates with me. I have two daughters of my own (neither of whom expressed any interest in USNA), and know the cost of education. . However, as a BGO, the issue of family finances rarely comes up, and I don't use it as a factor in evaluating my candidate. I look for a sincere desire to serve as a Naval/Marine Corps officer, and an open mind on whether he/she intends to make it a career. The issue of family finances usually comes up when I talk about Plan B, and I realize that sometimes its USNA/ROTC or staying on the family farm. One of the great things about the USNA admissions process is that everyone , regardless of family financial background, has an opportunity to attend.

1) Trust me, that aint my circumstance. DD is skilled and guiltless when it comes to spending Mom and Dads cash
-- I hear ya ! That one comes with the territory.
 
Giving up 9 years of your life.....

In my first 13 months at USAFA, I went through BCT, ran the O Course, the A Course and a number of other challenges with people who were to become a 1000 of my closest friends for life. I had a backseat ride in an F16 during an air to air mission over the Gulf of Mexico, I jumped out of airplanes (earned my wings), flew gliders, and completed Survival School - all in the first 13 months. In the next year, I had an F-15 ride, flew over the north pole at 500' and I got paid every step of the way. Not all of that was fun - but it was/is a unique set of experiences

My DD just finished her first 11 months at USNA - she saw Navy lose to USAFA and USMA in football - thought the Army/Navy game was really cool, fired pistols and rifles, learned to fight fires on ships, made tremendous friends, completed Sea Trials and the Herndon Climb, went sailing, navigated a USNA Yard Patrol craft, is prepping for a submarine cruise to name just a few things. And she is just getting started - and she is getting paid to do it. And again - not all of this is fun, but they are experiences that few others get the opportunity to experience

I would consider that Living Life much more that giving up anything.

And it is not possible to develop such an expanded network of true friends outside of the military - or at least I have never seen it occur. I am certain my DD is at USNA partly because she sees how close I am to the people I went to USAFA with as well as those I served with on active duty. People passing through just stop by and we pick up where the last conversation ended (which might have been years ago)

If she doesn't think that is living - step aside because their is someone waiting in the wings.
Please.

An academy education costs 8x that of OCS with no measurable difference in professionalism or dedication.

fact: The Naval Academy was founded so the sons of elites wouldn’t be hung from yard arms when they misbehaved.

and these ungrateful punks have the audacity to lecture taxpayers about how they provide a blanket of freedom.

too bad, your kid was smart enough to actually do something productive with their life other than contribute to the National Debt.
 
Please.

An academy education costs 8x that of OCS with no measurable difference in professionalism or dedication.

fact: The Naval Academy was founded so the sons of elites wouldn’t be hung from yard arms when they misbehaved.

and these ungrateful punks have the audacity to lecture taxpayers about how they provide a blanket of freedom.

too bad, your kid was smart enough to actually do something productive with their life other than contribute to the National Debt.

I think someone woke up and went on the wrong Internet page today???


 
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