Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
6
Hello all,

I know this might be a long shot, but can anyone speak to validating chemistry 1 & 2?

I have read through the resources I could find on course validation at USNA but am curious about the tests administered/steps necessary to place out of chem 1&2, as AP scores are not used to do this. I currently take AP chemistry and attend a school where students rarely score below a 4. How challenging is it to validate these courses (chem 1&2)? How can I prepare to do this before I report on June 28? :D

https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Candidate-Information/Course-Validation-Policy.php
 

falconchic88

10-Year Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Messages
1,138
I believe you take the validation tests during Plebe summer. My daughter scored a 5 on her AP Chem exam, but only validated Chem 1. She said she was just too tired during validation tests to really do well enough on it to validate Chem 2. In the end, I think she was ok with taking the Chem 2 because it was one class she didn't have to stress about.
 

helmsdown

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
302
Based on DD's experiences, if you score a high 4 on your AP you should be able to validate Chem I and possibly Chem II. DD validated both with a 4 but opted not to validate Chem II thinking there was too much she was unsure about. I think she fell into the same "too tired" as falconchic88. She did end up validating 7 so you too may have more than chem.
 

pleber16

USNA 2016
5-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
238
How can I prepare to do this before I report on June 28?

While validating courses is always a good thing, definitely do not spend your last few weeks of freedom studying for chemistry. Hang out with friends and family, enjoy watching some movies and playing video games, keep getting in shape, and do whatever else you enjoy that'll be put on the back burner for a few months once you show up for I-Day.
 

ahs67

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
109
My mid validated both chem l and ll. However, he has said in hindsight he wishes he took chem ll at usna
 

CrewDad

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
674
Why did he say that he should have taken Chem 2 at USNA? Also when you place out of the core classes does this give you more elective time or they make you take other Chem and Advanced Physics?
 

NavyHoops

Super Moderator
5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
6,851
They move them on to physics traditionally. It opens up room in their schedules later on for a variety of options.
 

navy2022VA

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
147
The academy gives placement tests at the end of plebe summer for core courses, by the way (free)
 

4.0swimmer

5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
39
TAKE AS MANY VALIDATIONS AS YOU CAN.

Class of '19 here. While it may sound like a good refresher to retake courses such as Chem at USNA, if you do not intend to be a chem major I would strongly advise to try to validate if they give you the option. As of my plebe summer only those who qualify with previous coursework can take the tests. You may feel "too tired" over plebe summer, but DO NOT opt out of taking the tests. Not only does it give you quite time away from detailers, validating sets you up for amazing opportunities for later years. If you validate, USNA will move up core classes (higher Calc, Physics, EE, Weapons Systems, Thermo....). This will allow you to participate in things like study abroad. Currently select mids in certain majors can participate in internships their firstie year off the yard (rare) or you can even start grad school at John Hopkins if you clear your last semester. As a college transfer, I was able to validate multiple classes which will allowed me to take the minimal amount credits the rest of my time here so that I able to focus on some really cool research projects with DOD organizations.
 

ahs67

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
109
Why did he say that he should have taken Chem 2 at USNA? Also when you place out of the core classes does this give you more elective time or they make you take other Chem and Advanced Physics?

I should have mentioned he's a chemistry major. After the fact, he felt taking Chem ll at the college level would have been a good buffer before jumping into the beast, aka O chem.
 

CrewDad

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
674
Is Plebe Chem taught at USNA more challenging than AP Chem? What does your son and Mids say about USNA Plebe Chem and Calculus 1-2 and Multivariable Cal 3? And lastly Stats? Is this also more difficult at USNA than AP Stats?
 

USMA 1994

5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
1,257
I think it depends on your intended major and how well your academic background is. I suggested to my own kid that you only look at testing out of courses that do not build on each other. I do not think you can compare how challenging they are; it is more than how the curriculum is set up. The classes at each college are set in sequence and they build on each other.

There is also an opportunity to take "advanced" classes instead of validating them. This may be a better option as you get taught at a different pace and still get to make
 

CrewDad

Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
674
We are looking at my DS to place out or take some of the core classes if enrolled at USNA because he was told by the Mids last week at USNA to place out as many classes as he can. Not sure if this is due to how the classes are taught or because to save time to take more classes in the future. According to the Mids, the AP equivalent classes are taught at more difficult level. So if you have first hand knowledge more specifically to USNA I would appreciate people chime in to offer your first hand knowledge on this topic. Thank you.
 

ahs67

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Messages
109
We are looking at my DS to place out or take some of the core classes if enrolled at USNA because he was told by the Mids last week at USNA to place out as many classes as he can. Not sure if this is due to how the classes are taught or because to save time to take more classes in the future. According to the Mids, the AP equivalent classes are taught at more difficult level. So if you have first hand knowledge more specifically to USNA I would appreciate people chime in to offer your first hand knowledge on this topic. Thank you.

No can really say-it's a very individual thing. I have heard as a rule the college course taught at the college level is more challenging than its high school version. It just may be better preparation as one is grasping the rigor and pace of college academics. In my sons case he scored a 5 on the AP test and a 790 (if I recall correctly) in the SAT subject test. He felt comfortable validating at first,but didn't take into account the time suck of all the other stuff he had going on-sports practice, other classes,pro-know, just being a plebe. For reference, he has mentioned that Plebe summer was easy compared to AC year. He's 1/c now and everything has worked out but I'd bet if he could go back, he'd go a little easier on himself academically.
 

JP2019TP

Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2017
Messages
53
While validating courses is always a good thing, definitely do not spend your last few weeks of freedom studying for chemistry. Hang out with friends and family, enjoy watching some movies and playing video games, keep getting in shape, and do whatever else you enjoy that'll be put on the back burner for a few months once you show up for I-Day.

We got a very different recommendation from a meeting we just had at the academy. Sat down with a Professor in the Leadership and Ethics dept. and he said "do not take a break between last day of classes and I-Day" He said time is your friend, and if you can validate classes, that will only help you in the long run. Stay fresh. One to two hours a day until set foot on the yard. If that increases ones chances of validating a class, it is well worth it.
 

pleber16

USNA 2016
5-Year Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
238
We got a very different recommendation from a meeting we just had at the academy. Sat down with a Professor in the Leadership and Ethics dept. and he said "do not take a break between last day of classes and I-Day" He said time is your friend, and if you can validate classes, that will only help you in the long run. Stay fresh. One to two hours a day until set foot on the yard. If that increases ones chances of validating a class, it is well worth it.

One to two hours, sure that's reasonable. I'm just saying don't spend your entire time off studying and stressing about the validation test. Your plebe is not going to get a real break from showing up on I-Day until Thanksgiving. Additionally if that short 5 days is too short or it's too expensive to travel, they won't get to be home until Christmas.
 

NavyHoops

Super Moderator
5-Year Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
6,851
And for some appointees that don’t graduate until late June their summer break can be short. Mine was barely a week before I Day.
 

Teddy123

New Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
4
Why did he say that he should have taken Chem 2 at USNA? Also when you place out of the core classes does this give you more elective time or they make you take other Chem and Advanced Physics?
My son validated both Chem 1 and 2 and had to take a course called Modern Chemistry, which he said was for those who validated both, like he did.
 

StPaulDad

Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
428
I think it depends on your intended major and how well your academic background is. I suggested to my own kid that you only look at testing out of courses that do not build on each other. I do not think you can compare how challenging they are; it is more than how the curriculum is set up. The classes at each college are set in sequence and they build on each other.

If you don't intend to use the Chem or Physics again (ie non-STEM major) then test out and get as many as possible out of the way. But I'd be wary of testing out of too many foundational classes in your major at the college level. It's a hard enough game that you don't need to begin it a couple cards short of a full hand.
 
Top