Crisis at the Mexican border

The Fighting Fifth. I was in San Mateo just a few days ago. They got popped at a battalion formation. wowza
 
I have been saying this to enlisted guys for years now; "Crayons make you stupid".

You don't see female Marines doing that. Why? Cause they're smaaht!


Oh yeah, pandering to NavyHoops. ;)
 
kinnem said:
This was very disappointing for both DS and I. We both expect more of Marines.
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By no means do the Marines have a monopoly on these bizarre stories--remember the Green Beret smuggling two punching bags full of cocaine from Colombia on a US military aircraft? The list seems very long recently.

Every time I read something like that I remember that our O-2 and O-3 DS/DD's are often on the front-line management of these miscreants. Not exactly something that your average junior law associate or bank management trainee has to deal with.

Just thinking out loud...I backpacked through Europe in the summer of 1976. The US military still had an abundance of men and equipment left over from the Vietnam years. US military presence in Europe was close to its peak. In the end, though, the soldiers in Europe largely sat there as a deterrent. I specifically remember several occasions seeing wide open drug use by US soldiers even on a passenger train. I attended a language school in the French Occupation zone of SW Germany and remember the French soldiers, loud and sloppy drunk, at street festivals.

It had me wondering if there is parallel between then and now with draw down in the GWOT--at least by conventional forces. Is there simply not enough "soldiering" to be done. Adolescent males may be bad decision makers, but 18-24 year old males have more freedom to carryout those bad decisions. Does "Idle hands are the work of the Devil" apply to here?
 
cb7893 said:
kinnem said:
This was very disappointing for both DS and I. We both expect more of Marines.
Click to expand...

By no means do the Marines have a monopoly on these bizarre stories--remember the Green Beret smuggling two punching bags full of cocaine from Colombia on a US military aircraft? The list seems very long recently.

Every time I read something like that I remember that our O-2 and O-3 DS/DD's are often on the front-line management of these miscreants. Not exactly something that your average junior law associate or bank management trainee has to deal with.

Just thinking out loud...I backpacked through Europe in the summer of 1976. The US military still had an abundance of men and equipment left over from the Vietnam years. US military presence in Europe was close to its peak. In the end, though, the soldiers in Europe largely sat there as a deterrent. I specifically remember several occasions seeing wide open drug use by US soldiers even on a passenger train. I attended a language school in the French Occupation zone of SW Germany and remember the French soldiers, loud and sloppy drunk, at street festivals.

It had me wondering if there is parallel between then and now with draw down in the GWOT--at least by conventional forces. Is there simply not enough "soldiering" to be done. Adolescent males may be bad decision makers, but 18-24 year old males have more freedom to carryout those bad decisions. Does "Idle hands are the work of the Devil" apply to here?
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The Joint Force is certainly not idle...regionally aligned, preparing to deploy, deployed, or building readiness.

But, yes too much time can produce incidents like this by those predisposed to make bad choices. Inculcating values on the scale required by our services is very difficult, unfortunately.
 
Incidents like this are an embarrassment to the military and an insult to the overwhelming majority who serve honorably. As the article states there are over 42,000 active duty personnel at Camp Pendleton. These bozos represent a tiny fraction of Marines.
 
These junior enlisted were looking to make a few thousand.

The captains and admirals in the Fat Leonard case were looking for tens of thousands. Oh, and to be wined and dined by the Fat one.

Both stains on the institution. Is one perceived to be a bigger scandal or about the same?
 
Devil Doc said:
These junior enlisted were looking to make a few thousand.

The captains and admirals in the Fat Leonard case were looking for tens of thousands. Oh, and to be wined and dined by the Fat one.

Both stains on the institution. Is one perceived to be a bigger scandal or about the same?
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The junior enlisted don't have fully formed brains; the O6+'s do...presumably. I know that doesn't answer your question.
 
cb7893 said:
Devil Doc said:
These junior enlisted were looking to make a few thousand.

The captains and admirals in the Fat Leonard case were looking for tens of thousands. Oh, and to be wined and dined by the Fat one.

Both stains on the institution. Is one perceived to be a bigger scandal or about the same?
Click to expand...

The junior enlisted don't have fully formed brains; the O6+'s do...presumably. I know that doesn't answer your question.
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Good point. It’ll be interesting to see what punishment is awarded these fellas.
 
cb7893 said:
The junior enlisted don't have fully formed brains; the O6+'s do...presumably. I know that doesn't answer your question.
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Well, I was an officer. I can tell you that I met quite a few enlisted personnel who were a lot smarter than many of the officers I served with.
My DS met a couple of enlisted guys on a submarine this summer, who had Masters degrees.

And yes, I know you were kidding.
 
THParent said:
cb7893 said:
The junior enlisted don't have fully formed brains; the O6+'s do...presumably. I know that doesn't answer your question.
Click to expand...

Well, I was an officer. I can tell you that I met quite a few enlisted personnel who were a lot smarter than many of the officers I served with.
My DS met a couple of enlisted guys on a submarine this summer, who had Masters degrees.

And yes, I know you were kidding.
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I wasn't kidding so much about the 18-24 year old males, full of p*** and vinegar, who haven't had to operate in the real world.

I do know what you mean about the enlisted guys. My DS is a signal officer. Most of his enlisted guys joined specifically for the training to set themselves up in the civilian world. Many have college degrees. If they don't, then this is their chance to get ahead in life. Whether it is working the help desk, getting systems certifications, setting up satellite comm systems or pulling cable, most of the skills are transferable. They seem to know the ramifications of a less than honorable discharge. Some don't, including a few O's.
 
A person's heart cannot be legislated. Many times if not most of the time when people betray this country it is not about the money so much as the power the deed brings. I mentioned Fat Leonard. The officers and at least one CPO probably didn't need the money as much as they enjoyed the thrill of being a hotshot puppet for a gangster. One officer just gave up ships' schedules so Leonard would know which ports to target for contracts for food, fuel, and fun. No harm in giving away ship movement information, huh?

What drove these young Marines to do these alleged crimes? They might have actually needed the money. I'm on and off military bases all the time and the era of junior enlisted burning down Basilone or Lejeune Blvd. in a new Mustang is still ongoing. I bet though the thrill of transporting people from south of the border seemed like an exciting thing to do and the scheme grew into numerous Marines signing up. Remember John Walker? He'd go in a bar and say, "Give me something with my name on it." He was an arrogant piece of work. Got his son involved for goodness sake. He said as well that the thrill of the spying kept him in it.

This is a big deal of course but not the biggest of deals. Not a good time though to be the 5th Marine Regiment's commander.
 
Thank God my DD is no longer an Adjutant at Pendleton. This is going to be a nightmare, forget the commander, and just think of the junior officers that have to handle this.
 
Devil Doc said:
This is a big deal of course but not the biggest of deals. Not a good time though to be the 5th Marine Regiment's commander.
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Sadly, my old Battalion/ Regiment - wish it was another Battalion at least. But folks, let's not kid ourselves. These activities go on all the time at Camp Pendleton and any other base you can name. The only reason this is getting wider press coverage is the number involved. DS just left Camp Pendleton after 3-years and confirmed that it goes on all the time - typically one or two caught at a time.

Illegal activity by Marines is nothing new and unfortunately will never disappear. 30 years ago I was dealing with Marines growing Pot in Squad Bay, white supremacists stealing grenades and gear, and lord knows what else. We need to punish these guys, make an example of them, and lead our Marines well enough to minimize (not eliminate) the stupidity.
 
This is a nightmare for a unit. The positions can’t be backfilled until the Marines are sentenced. So now you have short companies. It’s a paperwork nightmare. NCIS is involved so base legal is probably leading most of this effort. They can theoretically turn them over to the feds for prosecution and admin sep them out. It really depends if they have connections to a larger ring of this stuff and want to use them for that, plea dealings, etc.

Oh plenty of the female Marines get in trouble! I hate to say it but in my experience it wasn’t misconduct like this... more frat, adultery and pregnancy. Now I don’t want to say all females were like this, but the majority of the legal cases I saw involving female Marines did. At one point I was the lone female not pregnant in my unit...
 
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