Daughter considering leaving USAFA

[USMCGrunt]

@leo723: here is an article on a high achieving enlisted Marine that I thought you might like.

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/01/26/this-phd-student-wants-to-prove-its-possible-to-pursue-higher-ed-as-an-enlisted-marine/

 

[Falcon A]

I'm a little confused about how assignments after graduation work. I understand that you have a wish list but in the end the Air Force decides what you will do and where, based on their needs. It's not an offer but an order. Am I wrong?

It is an order . . . though you may have discussion with the AFPC detailer about your options

Can you negotiate or somehow influence the decision of your assignment, except by your performance as a cadet?

Others will have to provide info on current practice. My data is old. It also depends I think on the career field.

When you say you were "offered a job" one year into active duty, is that a change of assignment? Again, it that something decided from above or can you request a change?

For my situation, it was not a change of assignment like a PCS. It was a local change of job/office/organization on the base to which I was assigned. Wright-Patt is a big place. It was common practice then (I found out) to put all the 2LTs in Prog Mgmt support jobs where they could be "observed" for the first year . . . and then they offered some of us leadership jobs as PMs after that first year.

I get the impression that your assignment after graduation is a decision made by someone else and is your destiny for the next five years, for better or for worse. She is intimidated by that.

I think the assignment decision is made by someone else based on your "dream sheet". She may get the opportunity to speak with the AFPC detailer before they decide where she goes. That was how it was done in my day to those of us not going into pilot training. Not sure how it is done now.

Back then, I recall having an "interview" in person with a detailer sometime I think in the second semester of our senior year. The detailer had our "academic major" information in front of them. They told us which non-pilot AF jobs we were qualified for, and what the options were. Some of us based on major had minimal options. Others had more. My then fiance' (a fellow '83 classmate and still my wife) had a degree that basically mandated a job at Wright-Patt. The detailer offered me 4 or 5 choices for "job type" that I was qualified for and promised to station me with my wife at Wright-Patt if I chose one of them. I picked my "life's work" from a 2 or 3 line description of each of the 4 or 5 jobs described in a booklet. In the end, he was true to his word, however it always "needs of the Air Force" first and we went where assigned. For most of us, we were just glad we were graduating with "USAFA in the rear view mirror!"

I've asked her to talk to her academic adviser (who is also her Russian teacher), asking him if there is some path at the Academy that could lead to what she envisions as her future career. I also encouraged her to open up to her sponsor family and the chaplain, whom she knows well, not for practical advice, but just as a safety valve. I'd just like her to make a wise decision based on the best information she can get.

This is good . . . she will get the most relevant and up to date information related to her desired career field this way . . . it can definitely be daunting not being in complete control of your destiny and having someone that does not know you, have so much influence and input on where you go. On the other hand, there are similar situations in the civilian world as well . . . one final point that has been said up above and you being a veteran are also aware of . . . military experience for 5 years is not a bad thing on a resume. There are numerous cases where folks that had planned to be "lifers" got out after their commitment was up, and also cases where those that planned to "get out" at the first opportunity stayed for 2o or 30 years.

Truly wish you and you DD best wishes.

 

[BarbieK]

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

 

[parent2020]

I've asked her to talk to her academic adviser (who is also her Russian teacher), asking him if there is some path at the Academy that could lead to what she envisions as her future career.

leo723: I'm just agreeing with the advice of others recommending your DD speak with advisors and officers to explore career paths which would be complementary to her language interests.

My DS who is a STEM major but working on a minor in a foreign language has been asked if he would be open to the further study of languages upon graduating from USAFA. If so, his academic advisor has directed him to speak to a specific officer about career paths which would necessitate further language study after graduating. My DS's minor is not Russian, and I don't have any details other than their stating that there is an "officer to whom he should speak." My DS initially applied with the hope of being a pilot. He has now opened that up to other roles, some in the air, and others for which I just hear initialisms and my DS claiming they may be more interesting.

I suspect that first-semester 3c year might be the hardest for some cadets. Your daughter will almost certainly be better off by completing this academic year at USAFA. During the remainder of this term, she should thoroughly explore all opportunities and career paths both within and out of the USAF. Hopefully, she will then be best positioned to make a clear-headed fully informed decision before commitment and her 2c year.

Also, she should be careful not to view a civilian career through rose-colored glasses. While a civilian career would more certainly offer more degrees of freedom when changing jobs, one is not necessarily guaranteed to find a job to one's liking in a civilian field. While I have not served in the military, to some extent gaining your initial post in the USAF seems more straightforward and potentially fairer than the process an undergraduate from a civilian university may go through. I know many people, if not most, who are pursuing careers away from their undergraduate studies. For a number of them, this has been painful.

Wishing your DD good luck and happiness in whichever path she may choose.

 

[Falcon A]

BarbieK -- hang in there. It is hard.

Yep -- there are a lot of "former big fishes" at the Academy. You have to be one to get in. It can be hard adjusting to the fact you may no longer be the biggest fish.

My story is now almost 40 years old but it is not unique. Straight As in high school, but the Academy was a whole new ball game with a lot of really smart high achieving people. As a doolie I met with a AF Captain, our Cadet Squadron's Academic officer, at the start of our first academic semester. He had my file in front of him, and at the start of the 5 minute "interview" he announced that there was a 75% chance I would flunk out of the Academy based upon my high school's academic profile, region of the country and my SAT/ACT scores. "Well thank you sir, may I have another!" I resolved privately right then and there that was not going to happen . . . but he was almost right. I went into the first semester Freshman Chem final exam with an F in the course. I buckled down, studied, figured out what I had been doing wrong and got an A on the final. I then struggled through my doolie and 3 degree year flirting with "Acq Pro" but never being put on it. I started to figure it out 2nd class year and then finally made Dean's List/Supt's List my 1st Class/senior year. The goal is to do the best that you can, learn from the experiences, prepare yourself, and graduate. BTW -- I am not aware of anyone that graduated from the Academy that had difficulty in graduate school (My classmate @flieger83, one of the moderators on this site, has a great story on grades at USAFA he has shared previously on the forum. He now has his PhD.) The adversity the Academy causes is on purpose.

I hope your DS has a good relationship with his classmates in his squadron and with his roommates. That is what pulls you through that first year ... maybe the first 2 years. Not being on an honor role is OK. Avoid being on Academic Probation.

The Academy is not perfect . . . I hope his negative comments would fall into the category of "it is every cadet's right to *****" . . . there can be disillusionment. Mine was caused by discovering that there were cadets (a few) that seemed to resent being at the Academy. I had fought so hard to get in and was fighting so hard to stay! The Academy sets itself up so high with its brochures, videos, etc. . . . when the reality of the grind hits it can be a hard lesson. Again, it is not meant to be an easy place . . . and it is run by non-perfect humans, thus the difficulties experienced (academics, military, physical, time pressure) amplify the perceived slights, injustices, hypocrisies, yada yada.

Truly best wishes to you and your DS. The struggle is part of it for most that attend.

 

[Maplerock]

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

You're not alone. Many parents/kids are going through a similar experience but are hesitant to share it.

Best of luck to you and your son. You know things work themselves out in the end.

 

[Capt MJ]

For all of you with a struggling/thinking about leaving cadet or mid at any SA - from the perspective of one who sat on the other side of the desk from mids at USNA (I had duty as a Battalion Officer, overseeing 5 Companies out of 30, all are counseled by the COC when they are out-processing) and one who has sponsored mids for 20+ years:

- Watch what they do, more than what they say
- If they are busy researching other colleges, exploring financial aid packages, talking about plans with some detail to them, they have a foot out the door - they are moving toward something more than away from something
- If they are talking about it, but have no concrete plans, they may be venting in the safety of home and family, trying out how certain thoughts sound aloud
- If your high-performing, never-in-trouble DS or DD is suddenly tanking in all kinds of areas, I observed many, many mids who let themselves self-destruct and get involuntarily separated, because for whatever reason, they could not take steps to leave on their own
- Many, after so much hoopla and newspaper photos with MOC at appointment time and family members spending $$$$ on SA gear, are worried sick about facing family
- Grumbling about SA life is NORMAL, it sucks, which is why they say “bad place to be, great place to be from”
- SAs are not like the shining videos all the time
- There is a real tendency to hit “youngster slump” (3/c at USNA) especially during the “Dark Ages,” between winter and spring holidays, as the service obligation commitment time is now mere months away, and it’s real
- They can talk about being a pilot/whatever all day long and their hopes and dreams of service and leadership during HS senior year as they go through the appointment process, but the truth is, that is years away, and that dream can be hard to hold on to during the SA grind, at this age
- Former Big Fish face reality and have to find their happy place. You can’t do that for them.
- The system is designed to shed people along the way, whether someone doesn’t accept an appointment, doesn’t show up for Induction and summer training, leaves during the first 2 years, or the last 2 years at the SA, or after 5 years of AD. Attrition is normal. It could be your DS or DD. Breathe deep.
- Keep the door open, reassure them of your love and belief in their potential to succeed in WHATEVER path they choose, tell them they won’t disappoint you as long as they do their best and take responsibility for their actions and decisions, including making plans for their education.
- Have a care for your own emotional investment in an SA. They are easy to fall in love with, hard to break up with. I have witnessed parents being truly mean and threatening to their sons and daughters in an unhealthy extreme of tough love. Saddest thing I saw was a dad who called me to ask, in June, when he would see his son for summer training because he hadn’t heard specific dates. His son had been academically separated and had not told his parents, because of the family dynamic. He had gone to live with a former coach’s family in another state, which was discovered when the USNA chaplain I called stepped in to help mediate. (Bless all chaplains.)
- Your DD/DS is in a RELATIONSHIP with their SA. They will love it, hate it, fight it, witch about it, sometimes all in the same day.
- They may benefit from hearing from you about struggles with jobs or life choices or high-pressure situations, that what they are feeling is normal.
- Keep calm, carry on, keep the door open for unemotional discussion, ask open-ended questions designed to tease out the depth of the break-up symptoms.
- You may find support with Parents Clubs. You are not alone.
- You can call the military chaplains. They will not reveal you have called. They have their magic ways of checking in on and engaging with cadets and mids as they move about. They can’t share any confidences they receive, but they are generally very good with giving perspective and comfort to worried parents.
- Don’t re-allocate the 529 too early.
- You have a DS or DD who had what it took to get into the SA. They have the tools to succeed in life.

 

[NavyHoops]

As always Capt MJ is spot on. There is definitely a sophomore slump, especially second semester. First semester they are happy to just not be Plebes/Doolies. Academics have increased, they are craving leadership roles, they want more responsibility, the imperfections of a SA and military are more exposed and many other things. Nearly all of them shake this and commit without issue.

 

[Aina Haina]

For all of you with a struggling/thinking about leaving cadet or mid at any SA - from the perspective of one who sat on the other side of the desk from mids at USNA (I had duty as a Battalion Officer, overseeing 5 Companies out of 30, all are counseled by the COC when they are out-processing) and one who has sponsored mids for 20+ years:

- Watch what they do, more than what they say
- If they are busy researching other colleges, exploring financial aid packages, talking about plans with some detail to them, they have a foot out the door - they are moving toward something more than away from something
- If they are talking about it, but have no concrete plans, they may be venting in the safety of home and family, trying out how certain thoughts sound aloud
- If your high-performing, never-in-trouble DS or DD is suddenly tanking in all kinds of areas, I observed many, many mids who let themselves self-destruct and get involuntarily separated, because for whatever reason, they could not take steps to leave on their own
- Many, after so much hoopla and newspaper photos with MOC at appointment time and family members spending $$$$ on SA gear, are worried sick about facing family
- Grumbling about SA life is NORMAL, it sucks, which is why they say “bad place to be, great place to be from”
- SAs are not like the shining videos all the time
- There is a real tendency to hit “youngster slump” (3/c at USNA) especially during the “Dark Ages,” between winter and spring holidays, as the service obligation commitment time is now mere months away, and it’s real
- They can talk about being a pilot/whatever all day long and their hopes and dreams of service and leadership during HS senior year as they go through the appointment process, but the truth is, that is years away, and that dream can be hard to hold on to during the SA grind, at this age
- Former Big Fish face reality and have to find their happy place. You can’t do that for them.
- The system is designed to shed people along the way, whether someone doesn’t accept an appointment, doesn’t show up for Induction and summer training, leaves during the first 2 years, or the last 2 years at the SA, or after 5 years of AD. Attrition is normal. It could be your DS or DD. Breathe deep.
- Keep the door open, reassure them of your love and belief in their potential to succeed in WHATEVER path they choose, tell them they won’t disappoint you as long as they do their best and take responsibility for their actions and decisions, including making plans for their education.
- Have a care for your own emotional investment in an SA. They are easy to fall in love with, hard to break up with. I have witnessed parents being truly mean and threatening to their sons and daughters in an unhealthy extreme of tough love. Saddest thing I saw was a dad who called me to ask, in June, when he would see his son for summer training because he hadn’t heard specific dates. His son had been academically separated and had not told his parents, because of the family dynamic. He had gone to live with a former coach’s family in another state, which was discovered when the USNA chaplain I called stepped in to help mediate. (Bless all chaplains.)
- Your DD/DS is in a RELATIONSHIP with their SA. They will love it, hate it, fight it, witch about it, sometimes all in the same day.
- They may benefit from hearing from you about struggles with jobs or life choices or high-pressure situations, that what they are feeling is normal.
- Keep calm, carry on, keep the door open for unemotional discussion, ask open-ended questions designed to tease out the depth of the break-up symptoms.
- You may find support with Parents Clubs. You are not alone.
- You can call the military chaplains. They will not reveal you have called. They have their magic ways of checking in on and engaging with cadets and mids as they move about. They can’t share any confidences they receive, but they are generally very good with giving perspective and comfort to worried parents.
- Don’t re-allocate the 529 too early.
- You have a DS or DD who had what it took to get into the SA. They have the tools to succeed in life.

Captain MJ:

You have great perspective and wisdom to share. Comforting to know you have supported many a Mid through their journey at USNA. I’m sure the issues and questions faced by these amazing young men and women, who are barely two decades old, are common to all SA cadets/midshipmen in varying degrees at one point or another.

DS recently accepted his appointment to USNA, but have tempered much deserved excitement and anticipation with sage advise in the form of your posts. Thank you for the depth of understanding you bring and I pray my DS and all other cadets/miss will be able to connect with wonderful mentors/sponsor families/chaplains/etc to navigate a most unique ‘not college’ experience.

If you were taking reservations to sponsor a plebe in the Class of 2022, DS would be first on the list...haha. Thanks again Capt MJ!!!

 

[Wishful]

DD called at least once a semester & cried into the phone for 20". All I could do was listen (as in not making suggestions) & be supportive.

 

[BarbieK]

For all of you with a struggling/thinking about leaving cadet or mid at any SA - from the perspective of one who sat on the other side of the desk from mids at USNA (I had duty as a Battalion Officer, overseeing 5 Companies out of 30, all are counseled by the COC when they are out-processing) and one who has sponsored mids for 20+ years:

- Watch what they do, more than what they say
- If they are busy researching other colleges, exploring financial aid packages, talking about plans with some detail to them, they have a foot out the door - they are moving toward something more than away from something
- If they are talking about it, but have no concrete plans, they may be venting in the safety of home and family, trying out how certain thoughts sound aloud
- If your high-performing, never-in-trouble DS or DD is suddenly tanking in all kinds of areas, I observed many, many mids who let themselves self-destruct and get involuntarily separated, because for whatever reason, they could not take steps to leave on their own
- Many, after so much hoopla and newspaper photos with MOC at appointment time and family members spending $$$$ on SA gear, are worried sick about facing family
- Grumbling about SA life is NORMAL, it sucks, which is why they say “bad place to be, great place to be from”
- SAs are not like the shining videos all the time
- There is a real tendency to hit “youngster slump” (3/c at USNA) especially during the “Dark Ages,” between winter and spring holidays, as the service obligation commitment time is now mere months away, and it’s real
- They can talk about being a pilot/whatever all day long and their hopes and dreams of service and leadership during HS senior year as they go through the appointment process, but the truth is, that is years away, and that dream can be hard to hold on to during the SA grind, at this age
- Former Big Fish face reality and have to find their happy place. You can’t do that for them.
- The system is designed to shed people along the way, whether someone doesn’t accept an appointment, doesn’t show up for Induction and summer training, leaves during the first 2 years, or the last 2 years at the SA, or after 5 years of AD. Attrition is normal. It could be your DS or DD. Breathe deep.
- Keep the door open, reassure them of your love and belief in their potential to succeed in WHATEVER path they choose, tell them they won’t disappoint you as long as they do their best and take responsibility for their actions and decisions, including making plans for their education.
- Have a care for your own emotional investment in an SA. They are easy to fall in love with, hard to break up with. I have witnessed parents being truly mean and threatening to their sons and daughters in an unhealthy extreme of tough love. Saddest thing I saw was a dad who called me to ask, in June, when he would see his son for summer training because he hadn’t heard specific dates. His son had been academically separated and had not told his parents, because of the family dynamic. He had gone to live with a former coach’s family in another state, which was discovered when the USNA chaplain I called stepped in to help mediate. (Bless all chaplains.)
- Your DD/DS is in a RELATIONSHIP with their SA. They will love it, hate it, fight it, witch about it, sometimes all in the same day.
- They may benefit from hearing from you about struggles with jobs or life choices or high-pressure situations, that what they are feeling is normal.
- Keep calm, carry on, keep the door open for unemotional discussion, ask open-ended questions designed to tease out the depth of the break-up symptoms.
- You may find support with Parents Clubs. You are not alone.
- You can call the military chaplains. They will not reveal you have called. They have their magic ways of checking in on and engaging with cadets and mids as they move about. They can’t share any confidences they receive, but they are generally very good with giving perspective and comfort to worried parents.
- Don’t re-allocate the 529 too early.
- You have a DS or DD who had what it took to get into the SA. They have the tools to succeed in life.

Thank you Captian MJ and all others who posted. I'm still learning. Thought it would get easier (parenting) once they graduated high school. but now I'm doing much leaning in how to navigate this new season in our lives. God Bless you all.

 

[Wishful]

BTW: it doesn't end when they graduate!

 

[DDmom]

This is a very interesting thread...my DD was not appointed out of high school, spent a semester as a self prep at NWP and has reapplied to USAFA, and the other 4 SA. She has a friend that went through the prep school at USAFA, and is now in the same class as your DD a soph. When she was home over the Xmas break she came over to support my DD in her dream of getting an appt. told her she would be harassed on i day if she wore the Hawaiian shirt that is the custom of NWPrepsters and told of of her life at the academy. Said it was hard and that she cried most days, behind closed doors, but that she couldn’t imagine doing anything other than this. My DD is more determined than ever but willing to serve in any branch given the opportunity. It’s hard knowing we have another maybe 4 months to wait, she got her twe in May last year. She has her backup plan in place and if it isn’t meant to be I think she will accept it with grace, the hardest part isknowing that so many that actually accept appointments but leave before graduation.

 

[Hurricane12]

- Have a care for your own emotional investment in an SA. They are easy to fall in love with, hard to break up with. I have witnessed parents being truly mean and threatening to their sons and daughters in an unhealthy extreme of tough love. Saddest thing I saw was a dad who called me to ask, in June, when he would see his son for summer training because he hadn’t heard specific dates. His son had been academically separated and had not told his parents, because of the family dynamic. He had gone to live with a former coach’s family in another state, which was discovered when the USNA chaplain I called stepped in to help mediate. (Bless all chaplains.)

This was a great post, but this in particular stuck out to me. When I was a 1/C on Plebe Summer detail, there was a former youngster who had just been kicked out for academics caught "squatting" in the hall because he was too ashamed to go home...it became kind of a joke among the mids due to some certain circumstances surrounding it, but ultimately it was a very sad story where this kid felt he'd lost everything and couldn't go home.

To the OP: I know a lot of kids who were gung-ho world beaters showing up at USNA who, over time, became disillusioned with the Academy and their role there for one reason or another. Sometimes it was their own performance, sometimes it was the institution. And there are a lot of kids who see the Academies as full of promise and limitless potential (what comes to mind to me are the number of kids on here who ask about going straight to grad school or medical school) from the outside and then once they get there realize that, for most, active duty will be a grind in one way or another and not everyone gets to be an astronaut. While I for the most part was satisfied at USNA and am happy and moderately successful in the Marine Corps, I also was pretty disheartened and disappointed in aspects of USNA. That's natural.

If she has connections or friendships from anyone who has commissioned ahead of her in career paths she might find interesting, she should hit them up. USAFA is just a stepping stone. The JOs on staff at USNA were also always willing to talk about their jobs, and while most were refreshingly honest about the upsides and downsides, they may also be a bit removed from the initial "deer in headlights" stage as an O-1/O-2. If she doesn't like what she sees from the "warts and all" discussions she has with either USAFA staff or people who've gone ahead of her, then she has her answer.

 

[mom2mnem]

BarbieK..I think it's more common that we know. I think , like you, many people just don't want to post about it. Just as with any college, kids will leave. They will realize they made a decision that wan't right for them. So many of my oldest son's classmates are not where they started. Some kids can be completely unhappy and still get through it, others will need to make a change. I have 2 kids who exemplify each of these types of personalities. When my oldest was applying to colleges, I had a hard time getting him to make visits. We finally set one weekend aside for him to visit 2 schools. We dragged his brother along ( even tho he declared that USAFA was where he was going) so he would get a feel for it as well since they are only 2 yrs apart. When it came time for applications, DS just randomly applied to schools he thought would meet his needs ( and some state schools that we insisted on for the cost factor even tho he said he would never attend any of them)..all unseen. When all was said and done one local school ( 4 year commuter school with no dorms ..so no housing fees) offered him a full academic scholarship. He received scholarships to all schools he applied to, but nothing as good as what this school offered. The first time he laid eyes on this school was Accepted Students Day. From the moment he saw it..... he hated the school. It is small ( 3 buildings) and , according to him, has no college feel. Student commute from various distances so he really doesn't socialize much( his choice..he could make the effort). He is now in his 3rd year at this school and everyday has nothing but negativity for it. Fortunately he has the personality that allows him to thrive despite his negativity. Throughout all of this I encouraged him to look at other schools and consider a transfer if he was so unhappy. I think just knowing I was ok with that was all he needed. He never took that step no matter how many times he insisted he was going to and he may even stay for the 5 year combined MBA program. My middle child..the USAFA cadet... is a whole different story. He also chose random schools to put on his application based on who had AFROTC availability. No visits to any of them. The one school he thought he really wanted was the one his GF was going to and only had a crosstown AFROTC program. He applied, I wouldn't let him accept as I knew he was choosing it for the wrong reason. He also received many academic scholarships as well as an AFROTC scholarship. One school, school X, required an additional essay. No matter how much pleading and begging over the summer..he let it go. With deadlines looming he decided not to bother applying to school X. As he started hearing of USAFA appointments he was getting concerned and asked if it was too late to apply to school X because that is really the better school out of all that he applied to. Sorry kid..you missed that deadline. When April rolled around and no news from USAFA I forced him to visit the best choice he had...with the Academic and ROTC scholarships he would have no out of pocket expenses. The academic scholarship would be applied to housing and any excess would go to my son. Win-Win...it was a great school, no cost, an hour from the GF. We had a nice visit , I liked the school. He moped around the whole time. Refused to visit the clubs or organizations. We finally found the AFROTC table and spent most of the day talking with them and getting a tour. Things were looking great...until the ride home and DS asked how long did he have to stay at that school before he could transfer out. How easy would it be to transfer the ROTC scholarship. When should he start applying to school X. He was miserable and he would not survive at this school. That weekend he accepted the school admission, scholarship, and AFROTC scholarship as he was a week away from deadlines. A few days later he got the email from USAFA about the portal update. The relief he felt at not having to attend the other school was immediate. They are young and making very important decisions. I think that as long as your son knows that he is giving it his best try and whatever he decides his family will be behind him and support him then he will be ok even if it means he leaves the academy. Once recognition is over he may have a completely different outlook. Maybe this will be a better semester. My son's first semester wasn't too bad, but this semester he has the more challenging classes that some of his friends had last semester. ( physics, chem, mechanics) He may not have it as easy this time around and start complaining a bit more.

 

[Sam2018]

I have two at USAFA. They couldn't be more different. DD will graduate in May (lord willing ) and has done well. Doolie year she complained as she was "supposed" too but overall was happyish No issues and mostly a stealth cadet until this semester and now she's a flight commander. I wish she had taken more advantage of the opportunities but she's happy so its good. Speaking of jobs, however, she didn't get anything on her dream sheet and was assigned missiles. She cried for the first time in years, allowed herself to be sad for the day, then decided to make the best of it and after research into the field is now excited to get started. Its all in what you make of it.
Her brother is determined to take advantage of every opportunity and loves, loves, loves it. I tell him to stop skipping through USAFA, its not becoming of a doolie He would never even pretend to be unhappy. He loves the classes and the training and k-tests, he's weird. I hope it continues

 

[BarbieK]

BarbieK..I think it's more common that we know. I think , like you, many people just don't want to post about it. Just as with any college, kids will leave. They will realize they made a decision that wan't right for them. So many of my oldest son's classmates are not where they started. Some kids can be completely unhappy and still get through it, others will need to make a change. I have 2 kids who exemplify each of these types of personalities. When my oldest was applying to colleges, I had a hard time getting him to make visits. We finally set one weekend aside for him to visit 2 schools. We dragged his brother along ( even tho he declared that USAFA was where he was going) so he would get a feel for it as well since they are only 2 yrs apart. When it came time for applications, DS just randomly applied to schools he thought would meet his needs ( and some state schools that we insisted on for the cost factor even tho he said he would never attend any of them)..all unseen. When all was said and done one local school ( 4 year commuter school with no dorms ..so no housing fees) offered him a full academic scholarship. He received scholarships to all schools he applied to, but nothing as good as what this school offered. The first time he laid eyes on this school was Accepted Students Day. From the moment he saw it..... he hated the school. It is small ( 3 buildings) and , according to him, has no college feel. Student commute from various distances so he really doesn't socialize much( his choice..he could make the effort). He is now in his 3rd year at this school and everyday has nothing but negativity for it. Fortunately he has the personality that allows him to thrive despite his negativity. Throughout all of this I encouraged him to look at other schools and consider a transfer if he was so unhappy. I think just knowing I was ok with that was all he needed. He never took that step no matter how many times he insisted he was going to and he may even stay for the 5 year combined MBA program. My middle child..the USAFA cadet... is a whole different story. He also chose random schools to put on his application based on who had AFROTC availability. No visits to any of them. The one school he thought he really wanted was the one his GF was going to and only had a crosstown AFROTC program. He applied, I wouldn't let him accept as I knew he was choosing it for the wrong reason. He also received many academic scholarships as well as an AFROTC scholarship. One school, school X, required an additional essay. No matter how much pleading and begging over the summer..he let it go. With deadlines looming he decided not to bother applying to school X. As he started hearing of USAFA appointments he was getting concerned and asked if it was too late to apply to school X because that is really the better school out of all that he applied to. Sorry kid..you missed that deadline. When April rolled around and no news from USAFA I forced him to visit the best choice he had...with the Academic and ROTC scholarships he would have no out of pocket expenses. The academic scholarship would be applied to housing and any excess would go to my son. Win-Win...it was a great school, no cost, an hour from the GF. We had a nice visit , I liked the school. He moped around the whole time. Refused to visit the clubs or organizations. We finally found the AFROTC table and spent most of the day talking with them and getting a tour. Things were looking great...until the ride home and DS asked how long did he have to stay at that school before he could transfer out. How easy would it be to transfer the ROTC scholarship. When should he start applying to school X. He was miserable and he would not survive at this school. That weekend he accepted the school admission, scholarship, and AFROTC scholarship as he was a week away from deadlines. A few days later he got the email from USAFA about the portal update. The relief he felt at not having to attend the other school was immediate. They are young and making very important decisions. I think that as long as your son knows that he is giving it his best try and whatever he decides his family will be behind him and support him then he will be ok even if it means he leaves the academy. Once recognition is over he may have a completely different outlook. Maybe this will be a better semester. My son's first semester wasn't too bad, but this semester he has the more challenging classes that some of his friends had last semester. ( physics, chem, mechanics) He may not have it as easy this time around and start complaining a bit more.

Thank you for that. The story about your middle child sounds like my DS in so many ways. This 2nd semester will be very difficult for my DS as well and I am hopeful he will handle it OK. I have not had any communication with him since he left to go back on January 2nd. He was so negative and unpleasant when he was here for Christmas break I'm just giving us some space. I support him and I'm praying for him but he has to come to his own decision about how he's going to handle this journey. Definitely think he's disillusioned with the AFA right now. As was stated above there is so much hoopla with receiving an appointment and then having friends and family faun all over you - at the time it is such a big deal and once your there the reality and the daily grind wear you down. I guess the glamor has worn off and the rose colored glasses have been crushed. Hopefully some day he will come to realize what an incredible opportunity this is and will appreciate the USAF and all the doors it could open for him.

 

[Velocity2012]

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

I have a C4C DD right now so am living in the same world as you are. Just know that you are not alone, I have reached out and talked to lots of folks on the FB pages and count amongst them some of my closest friends, many of whom have cadets that are struggling. The corollary is that having a child attending a military academy has meant that a lot of my local friends don't understand the path that my cadet and as a result our family is on, and as a consequently we have little in common these days. The start of Recognition is just 37 days away from midnight tonight and I hear that it starts getting better from that point. At first I was getting frustrated with the level of communication. I started sending good night texts every night - short sweet, and slowly started getting nightly return messages. Happy to talk further if it helps. I am sure that it will get better for you and your son.

 

[In-the-Know]

If you are running, make sure you are running to something rather than just away.

She needs to look at her goals and decide if they are better served in the AF or going into the civilian world.

This is excellent advice. If your daughter does not know what she wants now, it will take her a while to figure it out if she leaves the Academy. I have seen many cadets who quit and then reapply when they realize that most of the college students they meet (assuming she goes right back to school) are wandering as well. The re applicants say that they didn't realize what a sense of purpose they really had at the Academy. If your daughter does not have something she is running to, then have her think hard about why she wants to leave, what she wants to do if she leaves, and what she is giving up. It is her decision. She is an adult. However adult decisions have adult consequences (and rewards).

 

[BarbieK]

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

I have a C4C DD right now so am living in the same world as you are. Just know that you are not alone, I have reached out and talked to lots of folks on the FB pages and count amongst them some of my closest friends, many of whom have cadets that are struggling. The corollary is that having a child attending a military academy has meant that a lot of my local friends don't understand the path that my cadet and as a result our family is on, and as a consequently we have little in common these days. The start of Recognition is just 37 days away from midnight tonight and I hear that it starts getting better from that point. At first I was getting frustrated with the level of communication. I started sending good night texts every night - short sweet, and slowly started getting nightly return messages. Happy to talk further if it helps. I am sure that it will get better for you and your son.

My daughter is in the second semester of her second year at USAFA and informed us last week that she is considering leaving.

I do not post much but Leo's comment struck my heart. I am the mother of a C4C. I remember a year ago when my DS received his appointment - we were over the top excited for him. Besides USAFA he was offered a full ride via AFROTC through one of the public colleges that promised him "a wonderful exciting life" on their pristine campus. We (his parents) warned him that if he chose the latter and lost his scholarship due to poor academics or not showing up in the mornings for PT then he had better have a plan B because we would not be coming to his rescue (getting up on time was problematic for him). The response from Falcon that he was a "big fish in a small pond" is a very good description of my DS. Anyway fast forward to the present: I am not sure what to think at the moment but I fear the same predicament as your DD.. Sadly we do not communicate much as he's just not real talkative but I don't feel like he "loves" it there. We saw him at parents weekend, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Over Thanksgiving he made some negative comments about the Academy so much so that I had a bit of a meltdown and told him he was disrespecting the AFA and the military by saying such things. At one point he told me not to worry he won't quit because he has nothing else to pursue. When he came home for Christmas he basically lived in his room and honestly I was relieved when he left. He works hard to not show any emotion so I can't speak to his true state of mind. I do know that he quit a club he was involved in and that he did not make any of the honor rolls this last semester. This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging. Life is real and he is now a man. I can do nothing but watch and pray (doing A LOT of praying) and hoping he gets his feet back under him. The confident cocky kid seems to have his tail tucked -maybe he will rise to the occasion or maybe he won't. Maybe this is what the Lord has brought to his life in order to grow him into the man he needs to become. I have not shared this with anyone so I was wondering if this is uncommon or more common than I think it is - especially for doolies. Sometimes I can't stand the FB page with all the smiling happy cadets and parents - makes me feel like I'm the only one with a unhappy kid. Would appreciate other parents sharing similar scenarios if you have been through this. Will be praying for Leo's DD - that she will make the right decision.

I have a C4C DD right now so am living in the same world as you are. Just know that you are not alone, I have reached out and talked to lots of folks on the FB pages and count amongst them some of my closest friends, many of whom have cadets that are struggling. The corollary is that having a child attending a military academy has meant that a lot of my local friends don't understand the path that my cadet and as a result our family is on, and as a consequently we have little in common these days. The start of Recognition is just 37 days away from midnight tonight and I hear that it starts getting better from that point. At first I was getting frustrated with the level of communication. I started sending good night texts every night - short sweet, and slowly started getting nightly return messages. Happy to talk further if it helps. I am sure that it will get better for you and your son.

Yes I hear it gets better after recognition. I stay away from the FB page. So many moms posting the "happy cadet" pictures and I'm just not there right now. I know things will work out because the way it came about that he is even at USAFA was most certainly by God's hand in his life (even though he doesn't see that yet) Thanks for sharing it it good to hear from others who are in the same place.