Daughter considering leaving USAFA

[Wishful]

And then add any security clearances gained and the ability to obtain more, ability to government contract translator jobs, ABC agencies, veterans preference...

Thinking State Dept...
I think a lot of 26 y/o's today would sign-off on that.

 

[usna1985]

Lots of good advice already given. A couple of additional thoughts . . .

Your DD is concerned that she won't use her major in her job. Most undergrads don't. Undergraduate education is about general learning, not developing a skill. You do that in graduate school or through the training your employer provides. Your undergrad degree may lead you to a particular profession but usually doesn't prepare you for it.

Second, 26 is not to late to start anything. I started a second career at age 30. Many SA grads go on to civilian careers that have nothing to do with their time in the military. They attend graduate school, learn new skills, etc. at 26, at 36, at 46 and beyond. While hard to believe when you're 19, 26 isn't ancient. And the maturity you get from a SA and time as an officer typically helps you be sure of your next steps and successful in them.

Third, the military is not about what you want; it's about needs of the military. Needs of the military can impact those who finish last but also those who finish first . We all have stories (sometimes our own) of being "promised" X if we finished first in our training class or school or whatever, only to be told, "Sorry, needs of the Navy dictate" Y. While it happens in the civilian world too, you have a lot less control in the military. If that's really going to bother OP's DD (if she can't roll with the flow), she will be very unhappy in the military.

Fourth, the OP mentioned that her DD had PT issues as well. That can be a real struggle/downer. There's a common perception at SAs that struggling in PT is a character flaw whereas struggling with academics is almost noble. The fact is that some people are just better at athletics than are others just as some folks are naturally smarter in academics/certain subjects than are others. Not everyone in the military is a PT stud, but you have to be willing to work to at least do ok in PT in order to stay in the military. If she really hates it, it's going to be a long, miserable existence.

DD should definitely stick it out the rest of the semester and try the summer programs. And then, if she decides she wants something else in her life, she should do that. There are many paths to success -- a SA is but one.

 

[Kensington]

Haven't read all the posts but will throw in my two-cents. DD left USAFA during BCT. Her dad and I were crushed as it was already part of our identity; we had the t-shirts and bumper stickers, made new best friends with other USAFA parents, scouted out hotels (and bought football and airplane tickets) for parent's weekend etc. From the moment she received her appointment they keep telling us, "They're adults now." We thought her first big adult decision was a terrible one.

Really we should have listened better. Her goals for a while have been to fly, serve in the Navy, and row in college. She worked her tushie off in HS in pursuit of those goals. USAFA should not have been her plan B after not receiving an appointment to USNA. We all, including her, thought that turning down a SA appointment was unthinkable. Not after all she had accomplished to get there! So many people would love that spot! Just get though JV, just get to Recognition, just graduate! Anyway, after working during a gap year she's heading to a great school with a rowing program, an airfield nearby, and an NROTC scholarship. We're extremely proud of her. Powerful parenting lesson. Thanks USAFA.

If she stays or goes I'll bet your DD will do great things and I'll bet she'll find ways to serve her country and community, because that's who we've raised and that's who they are.

 

[Christcorp]

Kensington; I'm happy to hear that your daughter has gotten things figured out and is back in school and has a navy rotc scholarship.

Don't 2nd guess your daughter having the air force academy as a plan B school. There's definitely nothing wrong with wanting only one branch of the military, and not applying to others. My son only applied to air force. But basic training is not representative of the academy or the branch of military. The fact that she dropped out during basic training, taken a year off, and is now back in college with a navy rotc scholarship demonstrates that she was probably not ready for the academy coming out of high school. She probably would have had similar feelings if she was at Annapolis or West Point. A lot of individuals got their "Plan B" academy and said they were so glad they got it and happy that they didn't get the other academy. Basic Training, any academy, isn't a good place to judge whether or not you will like that academy or branch of the military. There's a lot of individuals who drop out of the academies and wind up going ROTC in college in the "Same Branch" of military.

The more common and accurate thing is, many kids coming out of high school, simply are not prepared and ready for attending a military academy. They tell you that they've "Wanted it their whole life". That's fine, but it doesn't mean they are ready for it. As an ALO, I worked closely with an applicant in my town that wanted the air force academy their whole life. Was involved with JrROTC all throughout school. Was the #2 in position/rank at his high school JrROTC. Air Force was everything for him and everything he wanted. He worked hard and got an air force academy appointment. He QUIT 3 weeks into Basic Training at the air force academy. Very few kids know what they are getting into. It doesn't matter how excited, motivated, or dedicated they are. Until they are actually there, they have "No Clue" what they are getting into.

Some kids simply need the transition of ROTC. (Part time military; Part time Civilian College Student). It allows them to gradually break the ties of home and feel that they are "Going Off to College" instead of "Joining the Military". And for some, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. Neither the academy or ROTC is better than the other. They both provide different means of becoming a commissioned officer. Both have pros and cons.

So I'm glad it all worked out for your daughter. For others reading this with similar thoughts or concerns, basic training isn't really a good place or time to decide on quitting. UNLESS, you realize that the military (any branch) in general, or a full time military college lifestyle, isn't for you. Then it's fine to quit then. You may even have time to enroll in a civilian college for the fall. But if there's OTHER reasons that make you consider dropping out, I encourage you to simply make it through basic training and the first semester (Until Christmas Break). Then, you will be an "Informed" individual making an informed decision. Basic Training is NOT the academy; and the academy is NOT the "Real Military". It can give you an idea of where things are heading as far as training, lifestyle, environment, etc. And after BCT and one semester, you should be able to make a mature decision. If you decide to stay after that first semester, chances are you will have assimilated and feel comfortable staying the full 4 years. Usually the ones who drop out after the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th semester, do so because they realize that they simply can't handle or don't want to handle the academics.

So for others, just like Kensington; support your kinds and the decisions they make. All you can do is make sure they have all the information needed to make an informed decision. And whatever that decision, help if they ask; and support always. Best of luck

mike

 

[Billberna]

The rules may have changed regarding quitting during BCT. The appointee booklet contains an intro letter from Gen Goodwin which states:

"Disenrollment and departure from USAFA will only be allowed during our 6-week BCT program for medical reasons or by the Commander's discretion."

 

[Christcorp]

The rules may have changed regarding quitting during BCT. The appointee booklet contains an intro letter from Gen Goodwin which states:

"Disenrollment and departure from USAFA will only be allowed during our 6-week BCT program for medical reasons or by the Commander's discretion."

That is correct. But if an individual is adamant about not liking it and wanting to quit, and has made up their mind, then the commander will usually agree. (That is the discretion they are speaking of), and the individual will be allowed to leave. Even in the past, an individual in basic training who wants to quit, they normally force them to stick around for a while longer. This gives the individual a chance to reconsider and re-evaluate. But if they are hell bent, the commander will let them leave.

 

[Capri120]

Starting with the class of 2021, quitting during BCT was/is not as simple/easy as it had been.
Medical reasons or contemplating suicide (whether real or just used as an excuse) was about the only way the basics were allowed to depart before the end of the six weeks last year.

 

[Humey]

I have seen the videos on Youtube when the they arrive at the AFA academy where they get on the bus after leaving their parents and then arrive and are lined up and basically yelled at. I got to tell you , I dont know how most of these kids handle this. If it was me, I would be thinking what did i get myself into. The funny part is that is probably the easiest part of the summer training. I give these kids kuddos for dealing with it and can perfectly understand why someone would quit. The advantage of Rotc is that when you are done with your Rotc classes or events, you go back to dealing with the regular world so you have that safety value the kids in the academies dont have. College has to be tough enough coming out high school but then adding the military into it, I am amazed how well most them do

 

[Christcorp]

And yet, thousand of young men and women "Enlist" in the military each year. They immediately go into the "Real Military". Not into a college or even the academy where they can quit if they don't like it. And enlisted basic training is just as intense, with just as much yelling, as any academy. The difference is, after basic training, the enlisted men and women are still "In the military" dealing with the strict discipline 24/7. The academy cadet has a somewhat traditional college environment for a portion of the day with military discipline being selective. And again; they can quit. The enlisted can't simply quit. There's no "Safety value" there for them.

Same goes for kids who graduate high school and don't go "Off to college". (Believe it or not, not all kids go to college out of high school). These kids go off and get jobs. Many move out of their parent's house and have to start paying rent, car loans, food, utilities, etc. They are in the "Real World". Just like the enlisted are in the "Real Military".

College kids definitely have it the EASIEST generally speaking. Most are still part of their parent's lives. Go back home for holidays and summer/spring vacations. Someone to pay for most things. Most college kids have little to no real responsibilities or stress. They'll tell you they do; but they have "NO IDEA" what REAL responsibilities and stress are. After college kids, who have it the easiest, academy kids are next in line. After them, comes the enlisted military. They still have "Some" safety support. E.g. place to live (Dorm), meal card for food, not paying utility or rent, etc. But still much more stressful and more responsibilities than an academy cadet and definitely more than most college kids. Finally, the kid who goes off and gets a "Real Job" and is living on their own. They have entered the "Real World". They have the most responsibilities and stress.

Mind you, I said MOST in all the categories above. Some kids go off to college 100% on their own. They have very little support from home. They work to pay for tuition, room, board, books, etc. Same with some academy cadets. I have seen some that families disowned them for going to the academy/military. These individuals are 100% on their own. But for the majority, college kids have it the easiest and the academy cadets aren't far behind them. (When it comes to responsibilities, accountability, stress, etc.).

 

[fencersmother]

Just my old 2 cents:

Good friend had son at USAFA in Russian program for 3 semesters. He wanted out & transferred to big name New England College, despite his rank of <700 in his class. Five years out from graduation this spring, he FINALLY got a job in Ukraine. He worked at ticket sales for Washington Caps, and as a waiter in a swanky restaurant for 2.5 years, until he got laid off. So now, he makes $1400/mo teaching English to Russian/Ukrainian kids. He's about $48,000 in debt, after three years at swanky New England College.

If you ask him, do you wish you had stayed at USAFA? He says YES, or at least done ROTC since they'd have acknowledged and used (even to some degree) his degree in Russian. He did get some practice in Russian speaking while talking to the Russian hockey players, and occasionally in his waiter job. He'd have been out of the Air Force by now, or moving on through the rank of Captain.

 

[fencersmother]

From BarbieK (in late January):

This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging.

OH! How many times have parents and kids encountered this statement! "My child graduated with a 5.9 on a 4.0 scale, and was class president, and captain of six sports, and was band leader and general in CAP...."

And, now, DS/DD is at USAFA or USMA or USNA along with all the other kids who had similar stats.... It can be a really rude awakening for our children, who yes, were superstars in their high schools and communities. They still are stars; it's just that all their friends and classmates are too. Now, they are being measured against the best of the best, not against the kid down the road who will own his own plumbing company and be a millionaire by age 35 (if my plumbing bills are any indication), or the kids who are having their second babies at 16, or the kids who think they'll set the world afire if they can just get through pre-algebra.

Tough, too, for parents - who sometimes live vicariously through their kids (not accusing BarbieK nor anyone else of such; it just sometimes happens).

Much to weigh in looking to 2+5 years of commitment.

My dear friend has twin daughters, one of whom graduated USMA 7 years ago. She now owns her own home, and after five years (I think Management or similar major), is in charge of 350 people at large corp. Twin sis, same degree from Flagship U, is still paying off $39,000 of debt and has a job in rival company. She's in charge of 45 people.

 

[Humey]

From BarbieK (in late January):

This must be tough for a kid that never received less than an A in any class and he attended a private school that was considered academically challenging.

OH! How many times have parents and kids encountered this statement! "My child graduated with a 5.9 on a 4.0 scale, and was class president, and captain of six sports, and was band leader and general in CAP...."

And, now, DS/DD is at USAFA or USMA or USNA along with all the other kids who had similar stats.... It can be a really rude awakening for our children, who yes, were superstars in their high schools and communities. They still are stars; it's just that all their friends and classmates are too. Now, they are being measured against the best of the best, not against the kid down the road who will own his own plumbing company and be a millionaire by age 35 (if my plumbing bills are any indication), or the kids who are having their second babies at 16, or the kids who think they'll set the world afire if they can just get through pre-algebra.

Tough, too, for parents - who sometimes live vicariously through their kids (not accusing BarbieK nor anyone else of such; it just sometimes happens).

Much to weigh in looking to 2+5 years of commitment.

My dear friend has twin daughters, one of whom graduated USMA 7 years ago. She now owns her own home, and after five years (I think Management or similar major), is in charge of 350 people at large corp. Twin sis, same degree from Flagship U, is still paying off $39,000 of debt and has a job in rival company. She's in charge of 45 people.

I have said the same thing but in the world of sports especially in professional basketball. Outside of the starters, many (not all) on the bench or just so so compared to the starting five. And yet, you know when they were playing High School and college baskeball, they were the kings on the court. I am sure they are happy to be pros and to get paid big money, but I have to imagine it is a big blow to their egos when they go from the being stars to the B team. Cant remember which game it was, but one team was dominating but 20-30 points and by the last 5 minutes of the game, both teams basically put in their B squads. The difference in peformance was so obvious and yet you know these are some of the best talent in the country.

 

[Christcorp]

Yea, the "Big Fish in a Small Pond"; all of a sudden becoming a "Small Fish in a Big Pond". Even if you could find the #1 cadet coming into the academy, there would be another cadet in the class who outperformed in SOMETHING on their application. Maybe sports, leadership, clubs, volunteering, etc. But it's not uncommon for quite a few new cadets to have been: #1 class rank; 4.0 perfect gpa; all IB/AP classes; who is also class president, captain of 2-3 sports, has 300+ volunteer hours, 2 or more clubs, selected/attended Boy/Girl state, was possibly also involved in JrROTC/CAP/Scouts, All State/Nationally ranked athlete (Yes, MANY of the athletes at the academy are also brainiacs), etc.

And don't forget all the applicants and parents who post wanting to know "Their Chance" at getting an appointment. How many times you hear: "I/My kid is at a Competitive School" or "A Ranked School", etc. They don't realize that none of that matters. You can ask Flieger and other ALO/MALO/BGO and find out that a LOT of "A" students; 33+ACT students; etc. got turned down from getting an appointment.

I'm writing this NOT to "Discourage" anyone, but rather to "Encourage" the student/applicant who attends "Public School, Home School, etc". As long as you're taking the most challenging classes that are available to you; e.g. IB program, AP classes, etc.; or if home schooled or such classes aren't available, you are taking some additional community college classes when possible; and you're doing well in those classes; that will mean as much (or more) than those who were privileged/fortunate enough to go to a "Competitive", "Ranked", or "Private" school.

 

[fencersmother]

And realize that even five years out that "Oh! You're a USAFA grad, of course we'll hire you!" is an actual "thing."

It's often why people choose to go to Harvard or Notre Dame or other big name schools where the education received is not necessarily more difficult (though WAY more expensive). The student is paying for the network of which s/he will be a part - pretty much forever.