Decline in Military Discipline and rise in "don't care" culture at VMI

Pololive5

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Jan 29, 2019
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Im a Second classmen at VMI and I am extremely proud of it, however I can't help to notice that from when I was a Rat to now, there has a been a massive decline in Corps wide discipline and in turn a sharp rise in a "don't care" culture or as its know here as "**** bag" culture. The culture now just seems like a cancer too deep rooted and trying to change and correct people is a great fast track to social ostraization and being labeled a narp. Perhaps I just had my rat goggles on and saw everything in a perfect regimental system but can any older alum chime in and comment on this?
 
Not a VMI alum, but I can sympathize with your thoughts. My DS is the same age at The Citadel and has similar thoughts. I remember having similar thoughts in 1991 at Norwich. Different generation and different circumstances, but I can relate to what you are saying. You have chosen a completely different path than 99% of your peers. Stay true to the things that brought you to VMI and help guide and mentor the Rats. The only way to change things is to be a change agent. Sounds like a great opportunity to continue being a leader.
 
Not a VMI alum, but I can sympathize with your thoughts. My DS is the same age at The Citadel and has similar thoughts. I remember having similar thoughts in 1991 at Norwich. Different generation and different circumstances, but I can relate to what you are saying. You have chosen a completely different path than 99% of your peers. Stay true to the things that brought you to VMI and help guide and mentor the Rats. The only way to change things is to be a change agent. Sounds like a great opportunity to continue being a leader
I appreciate that Im not alone in this feeling and that its not a purely VMI problem. I don't like to think im too uptight but its at the point where a lot of people I know play pretty "fast and loose" with the honor code and I'm getting laughed at for cleaning my shoes on a non inspection day because I walked though mud. It just seems like being said agent of change is like trying to move the earth and will only get me invited to less parties.
 
Agree with the above. A few thoughts applicable to SAs and SMCs as well I think:
- Totally agree COVID has got to be messing with things.
- Tale as old as time…..it’s always a bias looking back and seeing it as easier than when you went through it.
- To some extent, things always have and always will get “softer” over time. VMI today isn’t the 1990s VMI, and 90s VMI isn’t the 70s VMI. I’ve been out for beers with alum spanning those decades.
- Other than the HC, a percentage of people getting burnt out and trying to get away with things like dirty shoes is totally normal….go you for still looking sharp. I always kept my sh** squared away too…and was a minority for doing so.

Two things to remember, one of which you’ve probably heard:

“VMI isn’t what it used to be, but it never was.” - Dr. Charles Bryan ‘69 (professor)

“We don’t have to be as hard as we ever were. We just have to be harder than everyone else.” -anon alum over a beer
 
The age old saying from West Point grads - "The Corps Has!" The Corps is always softer or not as hard as when "I" was there. The fact is times change and the academies and military schools evolve with them. The last of classes that experienced true physical hazing graduated the year before I arrived at West Point. The Corps was not worse off because that aspect was eliminated. I hear the experiences of my son now and I think that is ridiculous...I can't believe how soft it has gotten. And yet, I am certain the academics are far more complex than they were even 25 years ago. So things change.

There is something to be said for how the challenges of COVID may have altered the experiences significantly from what might have otherwise naturally occurred.
 
Frankly, I'm amazed that the place hasn't changed more after 35 years... While the dirtbags definitely need to conform to VMI standards and stop trying to be "cool guys", the regimental dorks need to know that parading around with their sabers and boning other Cadets is going to have repercussions. You can't change human nature, even at VMI. The ebbs and flows that you experience while you are at VMI are VMI and actually, a very important part of the VMI experience/education.

But to answer the question directly, I thought Peay made VMI more military. When I was there, we emphasized the citizen soldier more (pre-9/11). If you look at the 60's/70's Bombs, some of those guys had some pretty long hair... Honor Court scandals are infrequent but happen and will continue to happen. On the bright side, after the scandal, the honor system is strengthened, not abandoned like other schools. Lastly, I think everyone that goes to VMI has some disillusionment at the end of their cadetship. That's what makes VMI profound. The VMI experience always stays with you - the good and the bad. And ultimately, that's why you went there, didn't you?

Enjoy the Spring in Lex Vegas and best wishes on a great 1st Class year. Leave the *****ing to the Old Corps! You'll be wearing yellow pants in no time, talking about how great VMI is and how tough it was when you were there...
 
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