Denied on basis of being a Non-Minority

Maplerock said:
It's not worth having unless you are one of the unfortunates with excellent ECAs, great GPA, and High Class Rank sitting on a thin white envelope.
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Sorry about the TWE, but having the debate won't change that.
 
Hunter.50cal said:
Got denied from CGA late last year under EA. Highschool college counsiler tried to get me reconsidered under RA. CGA counciler said that they could not take me beacuse they had a minority quota to fill. Kinda makes me irrate.:rant2:
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Did you get a TWE, or were you just told by the AO you would not be able to get in?
 
First, there's no way anyone from admissions told you that you weren't admitted because of race. All you get is a "thanks but no thanks" letter. Maybe a generic "work on these weaknesses" if you seek further information.

Second, it's not necessarily "diversity for diversity's sake." The Enlisted Corps is much more diverse than the Officer Corps right now and having the leaders look drastically different than the followers creates an environment for command climate issues. The only way to fix it is to carefully select who they push through the commissioning programs.
 
USCGA_2018 said:
Hunter.50cal, It is your ATTITUDE, not your APTITUDE, that determines your ALTITUDE. Please read about the role of Inclusion and Diversity at the CGA. It may help you to see things in a different light. http://www.uscga.edu/about.aspx?id=32

To the rest of us...

We need to think carefully before posting on such controversial topics. There are many well qualified, outstanding cadets and candidates that also happen to be members of under represented groups. These type threads can be incredibly offensive and insensitive to these individuals and their accomplishments.

There are the slightly marginal cadets or candidates that really need support and encouragement. These are the young men and women that I really worry about stumbling on a thread like this and becoming discouraged.
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Why is it not a concern that this thread would be discouraging to qualified candidates who come from a non-minority group? Why is it not a concern that minorities would find it offensive that society has this belief that they are not able to achieve their goals without some type of advantage over others? I have no problem with an institution giving an advantage to someone who came from a disadvantaged background and has a strong work ethic but may not have high SAT scores because the school system they went to does not stack up as well as others around the nation, but giving someone an edge simply because they checked a box that indicates a certain race is discrimination in of itself.
 
Why is everyone assuming that any minorities accepted must have lower stats than white candidates? If I were an admissions officer, and I had two equally qualified candidates - one white, one minority, and the entering class is already comprised of a majority of white males, I'd probably give the nod to the minority candidate. Diversity is a good thing.
 
Coast Guard Academy

Does anyone know how many applicants will get accepted to USCGA? ANd how do they rate the applicants per district?
 
We are hopeful

Bushido said:
Does anyone know how many applicants will get accepted to USCGA? ANd how do they rate the applicants per district?
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I would also like to know how many people are actually on the waitlist and what percentage can be expected to get an appointment? Is there anything we can do to ensure an appointment once on the waitlist? I really want this appointment and have worked hard.
 
BR2011 said:
First, there's no way anyone from admissions told you that you weren't admitted because of race. All you get is a "thanks but no thanks" letter. Maybe a generic "work on these weaknesses" if you seek further information.

Second, it's not necessarily "diversity for diversity's sake." The Enlisted Corps is much more diverse than the Officer Corps right now and having the leaders look drastically different than the followers creates an environment for command climate issues. The only way to fix it is to carefully select who they push through the commissioning programs.
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Come on, you REALLY think that's it? You think Congress's concern was racial ratios between the officer corps and enlisted population? I would bet 75% of Congress isn't really aware of the difference.

This wasn't a push from senior leaders in the Coast Guard, it was forced on them from the likes of Rep. Cummins. And this isn't "carefully selecting," it's checking a box and letting someone in. In fact, look at the ratings and make some pretty safe assumptions on the make up of FS v. MST.

The claim is "this is to make the officer corps look more like the enlisted ranks" but the reality is some politician in an under-represented area wanted brownie points.
 
[/QUOTE] "Hunter.50cal, It is your ATTITUDE, not your APTITUDE, that determines your ALTITUDE. Please read about the role of Inclusion and Diversity at the CGA. It may help you to see things in a different light. http://www.uscga.edu/about.aspx?id=32

To the rest of us...

We need to think carefully before posting on such controversial topics. There are many well qualified, outstanding cadets and candidates that also happen to be members of under represented groups. These type threads can be incredibly offensive and insensitive to these individuals and their accomplishments.

There are the slightly marginal cadets or candidates that really need support and encouragement. These are the young men and women that I really worry about stumbling on a thread like this and becoming discouraged.[/QUOTE]


"We need to think carefully…"
"There are slightly marginal cadets and candidates that really need support and encouragement…"


In my opinion, burying our head in the sand and pretending all kinds of discrimination does not exist is what causes problems in the first place. I think this forum is a great way to share victories, defeats and new ideas. It is a great way to learn more about the other side of the opinion coin as long as we can be civilized about it. Regarding the quotes above, I don't think you meant to imply that minority candidates are marginal cadets/candidates, and need to be handled gently but that is how it came across to me and upon first glance I found your comments discriminatory.

I would hope that the new incoming class is made up of the best cadets we can find, with a great moral compass. I am very proud of my DS and I think he has a great attitude about cultures different that the one he grew up in and I think most of his peers (of all races) do too. His attitude is probably much more open than mine. Hunter.50 cal is right, he probably was denied based on diversity, and that if he is a white male, nowadays he does need damn near perfect SAT, ECA, GPA, Varsity and leadership to even get a shot, especially considering he comes from MD.

As many have said, it is not fair, life is also not fair and those who accept that, and adapt, ultimately succeed. Personally, I think LITS is correct that much of this is forced down our throats by the elected few who are looking out for themselves and trying to get re-elected year after year, and probably not the best way to select our elite fighting forces.

What is the BEST way to select the BEST candidates…I do not know.

I do, however, think that attitude and aptitude are BOTH very important serving our country in the armed forces. Just having one alone is not enough. I am pretty sure that many of us…minority or not…want the best fighting forces protecting our shores and our way of life. I do think this is an important topic and should be discussed. Thank you LITS for your service.
 
Jcc123 said:
Why is everyone assuming that any minorities accepted must have lower stats than white candidates? If I were an admissions officer, and I had two equally qualified candidates - one white, one minority, and the entering class is already comprised of a majority of white males, I'd probably give the nod to the minority candidate. Diversity is a good thing.
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So you just admitted you would discriminate against a white candidate, because of "diversity". Two exactly equal candidates and you would choose the minority, because he/she is a minority. That is completely unethical and unfair. That betrays every principle that the academies preach and then they would further expect us to uphold these principles that they fail to maintain. Hypocritical much...Yeah I would think so, thus it should be abolished by all college, but especially by the service academies.
 

"We need to think carefully…"
"There are slightly marginal cadets and candidates that really need support and encouragement…"


In my opinion, burying our head in the sand and pretending all kinds of discrimination does not exist is what causes problems in the first place. I think this forum is a great way to share victories, defeats and new ideas. It is a great way to learn more about the other side of the opinion coin as long as we can be civilized about it. Regarding the quotes above, I don't think you meant to imply that minority candidates are marginal cadets/candidates, and need to be handled gently but that is how it came across to me and upon first glance I found your comments discriminatory.


.[/QUOTE]


You are right, I certainly did not mean to imply that minorities are marginal. What I meant to convey is that there are under represented groups that may be marginal in some capacity, but otherwise the academy would love to have them. Maybe they can't do quite as many pull-ups as we would like, or their SAT verbal is a bit below the mean? It could easily be a white male from North Dakota that plays trombone and football, but hasn't taken the most rigorous course load.

Maybe I have become too soft and sentimental as I have aged? I have somehow developed this notion that we should encourage and inspire others to reach their potential by offering challenging opportunities and breaking down barriers. And to think, 10 years ago this June, I stood in line for about 5 hours with my wife and our 10 year old daughter and 8 year old son to pass by President Reagan's casket as he lie in state at the Capitol Rotunda.

Just to be clear, I am about as conservative as you can imagine. And although Reagan was generally opposed to affirmative action initiatives, it was the "Great Communicator" that appointed the first female US Supreme Court Justice. Sometimes you have to do things because they are appropriately politically and also because it just makes sense. It's the right thing to do.

Consider the Coast Guard Academy Demographics...

Less than 2% black when the national population is nearly 13% black. Consider the original poster from MD where the population is nearly 30% black. That admissions area also includes other states with higher than national averages of blacks. VA over 19%, SC 28%, and DC 50%. (used blacks as an example only)

I don't think the OP understood the competitive landscape and was just not strong enough to be selected by USCGA and apparently Navy as well. Furthermore, any candidate that comes on a forum and makes that type of claim lacks the character and conviction to be an officer in today's service. I have to believe that the OP misunderstood or misrepresented the AO's commentary on his not being accepted. Again, I think the OP's few sentences posted speaks volume. It was full of spelling and grammar errors and was seemingly meant to kick off an anti-minority sentiment.

My own son experienced this last year when applying to summer programs. The AFA Summer program to did not offer him a spot, but they did accept a classmate of his. She is Hispanic, and she had lower PSAT, SAT, ACT, GPA, etc... Initially, my son was really ticked. I could have easily piled on with my own bitter cynicism too, but I refrained. I had him speak with his senior aerospace instructor who did a great job of explaining the need and desire of the SA's to encourage under represented minorities. I think that my son came to somewhat understand the value and importance of the initiative rather than to merely accept it as an unpleasant fact of life.

I'm not trying to change anybody's way of thinking about this topic. I just feel that these things sort of work themselves out and eventually the cream rises to the top. In the case of my own son, he was fortunate to be a principal nom to WP and accept an appointment to CGA. His classmate never attended the summer program and was not accepted at AFA, although she did receive a congressional nom. She is happily committed to attend VMI and will attempt to commission via ROTC.

I really think that what it comes down to is the really deserving, truly motivated, highly committed candidate will find a way. They will reapply, do ROTC (non-CG), settle on another academy, etc... It just seems that it's easier to live with the mistake of not selecting someone that will likely succeed regardless of admission to a SA, than it is to deny an under represented person a chance to prove themselves.

If anyone now doubts my conservative, republican, fiscally responsibly, yet socially moderate credentials.... Let me conclude with saying that I become physically sick to stomach when I think about Terry McAuliffe as our governor here in VA.
 
Armystrong, that does not even remotely qualify as discrimination. As I said above, hypothetically, if I had two EQUALLY qualified candidates, I would choose the candidate that brought diversity to the class, whether it be because he's 1/4 Cherokee from Georgia, or an African American from Texas, or what have you. There are limited slots in each class, not every qualified person, regardless of race, can be admitted. Never did I advocate choosing less qualified candidates simply because of their race, although in reality that may happen as well.

Whether you like it or not, it is a stated mission of all the services to have the officer corp more closely resemble the enlisted forces in racial make-up. In my opinion, if the academy selected a class of nothing but middle class white boys
when qualified minority candidates had applied, that would be discrimination.
Choosing diverse candidates from a field of all qualified applicants is not.
 
Jcc123 said:
Whether you like it or not, it is a stated mission of all the services to have the officer corp more closely resemble the enlisted forces in racial make-up.
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Weird, I certainly don't remember that being a "mission". Wasn't one of the statutory missions of the Coast Guard when I was in. I was never briefed on this mission. My folks never attempted this missions. I never swore on anything to support this mission.

Honestly, maybe mission is too strong of a word. It's not the MISSION of the services, it's the pipe dream of a politician.

What I'd LOVE to see if the PERCENTAGE of qualified minorities accepted of the QUALIFIED minorities who applied. If you only have 3% of applicants being minorities, 2% make up isn't that surprising.
 
Remember that our SAs are not the only entities that wrestle with this issue... Consider nearly every big-city police department over the last several decades. They also have men and women that go in harm's way to serve the public trust. And almost universally they've found there are real, tangible (non-political!) benefits for adopting an active policy of diversity.
 
Jcc123 said:
And you were in charge of admissions when?
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You must have misspoken, you said it was a mission of the SERVICES. And I told you... it wasn't. I'm correct, you're not.

Interestingly enough, I had to memorize the "Mission of the United States Coast Guard Academy" and again, found no mention of this "mission" you apparently think is just common knowledge.

I assume if it's a "STATED MISSION" you can find that statement, and that mission.... right?

Or maybe you're the director of admissions? Or maybe you're involved with admissions? Or are you an officer? Or a vet? I assume you've had some experience with ACTUAL missions, even if you seem married to this supposed "stated mission" whether I like it or not... :rolleyes:
 
Bushido said:
Does anyone know how many applicants will get accepted to USCGA? ANd how do they rate the applicants per district?
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According to the USCGA website:
"The average entering class size is 240."
"There are approximately 300 full appointments, depending on the targeted class size, offered each year. Incoming class size is estimated to be between 230 and 240 for the next few years."
"Over 4,000 applicants start the process each year and over 2,000 are ultimately evaluated for an appointment."
 
Jcc123 said:
Armystrong, that does not even remotely qualify as discrimination. As I said above, hypothetically, if I had two EQUALLY qualified candidates, I would choose the candidate that brought diversity to the class, whether it be because he's 1/4 Cherokee from Georgia, or an African American from Texas, or what have you. There are limited slots in each class, not every qualified person, regardless of race, can be admitted. Never did I advocate choosing less qualified candidates simply because of their race, although in reality that may happen as well.

Whether you like it or not, it is a stated mission of all the services to have the officer corp more closely resemble the enlisted forces in racial make-up. In my opinion, if the academy selected a class of nothing but middle class white boys
when qualified minority candidates had applied, that would be discrimination.
Choosing diverse candidates from a field of all qualified applicants is not.
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I'm pretty sure we have different definitions of discrimination then. Because to me, choosing one exactly equal candidate over another simply because he is "1/4 Cherokee" is the epitome of discrimination. Simply because of being white, he is not selected. Does that sound fair? And to your statement regarding comparison between officer and enlisted corps...I'm pretty sure principle matters more than if the officer corps resembles the enlisted forces. Race, ethnicity, sex, should all be eliminated and thus if a scenario did arise, one would not "simply choose the 1/4 Cherokee, because the person he is going up against is white." That is the most ethical solution by far and their's no arguing against that.
 
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