Dep Dant is trying to fry all the Black N members who wore their sweaters to Halloween

[DKTKT]

Things change, for better or worse. I get a kick on the plebe parent FB page. Parents are quick to complain about the Dant and how he has changed things. These peoples' kids are plebes. They don't know any better. They have nothing to compare it to.

You think Plebe parents know not the legends of USNA?! LOL More seriously, I am not on FB complaining about Dant (or anything else for that matter). But I am not sure it is unreasonable for Plebe parents to be sad over changes. Even as a Plebe parent, you form expectations from research into and stories of USNA. Some things sound cool maybe, and then you are sad they are discontinued and your kid won't experience them.

 

[THParent]

You have to have change, though.

If it weren't for change, you couldn't have the old link-in-the-chain codgers telling them things like "8 burgers for 12 midshipmen? You get burgers? We used to have to catch fish in the Severn and drink water out of a muddy hoof print on Stribling Walk - and we were GLAD TO GET IT!"

Love you link in the chain folks, don't hurt me.

 

[Capt MJ]

My DH marched in formation to class on Saturdays, uphill, BOTH WAYS!

[emoji23][emoji23]

 

[KirkcudbrightBorn]

My DH marched in formation to class on Saturdays, uphill, BOTH WAYS!

[emoji23][emoji23]

In the snow, in August, when it wasn't 110!

 

[Old Navy BGO]

If it weren't for change, you couldn't have the old link-in-the-chain codgers telling them things like "8 burgers for 12 midshipmen? You get burgers? We used to have to catch fish in the Severn and drink water out of a muddy hoof print on Stribling Walk - and we were GLAD TO GET IT!"

When we were Midshipmen, we used to laugh at the those old Codgers, who would often try to sneak up in to the Hall after the Homecoming dinner (and a few cocktails)..now we are slowly beginning to recognize that we are them !

 

[SaltiDawg]

The major change that I can discern is that Midshipman or Graduates now apparently would discuss with their parents thoughts about Officers with which they interact.

My parents wouldn't have known the name of the Superintendent, My Company Officer, The Chief Engineer on my Submarine, or anything about my classes or grades.

Additionally, my parents would never have thought to give me "advice" on anything Military.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

The major change that I can discern is that Midshipman or Graduates now apparently would discuss with their parents thoughts about Officers with which they interact.
My parents wouldn't have known the name of the Superintendent, My Company Officer, The Chief Engineer on my Submarine, or anything about my classes or grades.

Different times... I see a number of parents living vicariously through the kids experience at USNA. Not saying whether its good or bad, but certainly not my experience (my parents knew what they saw during Plebes Parent Weekend, First Class Parents weekend, and Commissioning Week, and what I told them when home on leave ).

 

[A1Janitor]

Different times... I see a number of parents living vicariously through the kids experience at USNA. Not saying whether its good or bad, but certainly not my experience (my parents knew what they saw during Plebes Parent Weekend, First Class Parents weekend, and Commissioning Week, and what I told them when home on leave ).

Not sure this is fair.

Our kids have cell phones, and we have the internet.

I don’t know the “Superintendent, My Company Officer, The Chief Engineer on my Submarine, or anything about my classes or grades.”

My son always tells me his grades. I met the Superintendent.

I ask him about things that come up on this site. For instance, I asked about this issue in OP. His response was a laugh and said it’s a tradition. He doesn’t open up about that stuff.

The most substantive phone calls we have had since he was inducted was selecting his major (he went from cyber to nuclear physics to math to engineering. Now I think he is going to chemistry and work towards medical degree) and USNA football and basketball.

I certainly am not living vicariously through my son ... and K am not sure if he other parents are. I talk and text more to my daughter who is a senior in college.

 

[SaltiDawg]

Different times... I see a number of parents living vicariously through the kids experience at USNA. Not saying whether its good or bad, but certainly not my experience (my parents knew what they saw during Plebes Parent Weekend, First Class Parents weekend, and Commissioning Week, and what I told them when home on leave ).

I've only been here for two days. But this is precisely what I see. Denials not withstanding.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Not sure this is fair.

Our kids have cell phones, and we have the internet.

I don’t know the “Superintendent, My Company Officer, The Chief Engineer on my Submarine, or anything about my classes or grades.”

My son always tells me his grades. I met the Superintendent.

I ask him about things that come up on this site. For instance, I asked about this issue in OP. His response was a laugh and said it’s a tradition. He doesn’t open up about that stuff.

The most substantive phone calls we have had since he was inducted was selecting his major (he went from cyber to nuclear physics to math to engineering. Now I think he is going to chemistry and work towards medical degree) and USNA football and basketball.

I certainly am not living vicariously through my son ... and K am not sure if he other parents are. I talk and text more to my daughter who is a senior in college.

Your experience is now. Some of us have experience from before and now.
I was a mid and I've been the parent of a mid in modern times and maybe you don't see the difference but there are those of us who do.

 

[ders_dad]

Not sure this is fair.

Our kids have cell phones, and we have the internet.

It is such a different world, even from 10 years ago. Just think about Skype. We Skyped with my son on Saturday night for the first time (it was his birthday) and that was really cool. And sometimes I even get a text during the day (albeit one or two words).

I make zero apologies about being interested in my son's life at USNA. He's my son and I am interested in what he is doing. He has plenty of space w/r to his parents - sounds like way more than some of his cohort. We're older parents compared to most of his classmate (it amazes me how young some of the parents are!). I have three other sons and they get my attention, too. That's called parenting. My wife and I made interesting children and I intend to enjoy them while I can.

 

[A1Janitor]

Your experience is now. Some of us have experience from before and now.
I was a mid and I've been the parent of a mid in modern times and maybe you don't see the difference but there are those of us who do.

I am merely responding ... not trying to be disagreeable. Technology changes old vs new.

I don’t take offense at what you say - because I am not living vicariously through my son.

When I played high school basketball in the early 80s - my father only went to a few of my games. His father went to none of his in the early 40s. I went to all of my sons games.

Not living vicariously. Loving him and supporting him the best way I know how.

 

[SaltiDawg]

When I played high school basketball in the early 80s - my father only went to a few of my games. His father went to none of his in the early 40s. I went to all of my sons games.

This sounds similar to my life... however, somehow my observation about living vicariously thru children that have grown to be young adults is being distorted to suggest that I mean that you somehow disown your adult children.

I see no reason for a parent to somehow have strong feelings about the leadership abilities or managerial style of a leader based on a change in policy about B-robes or sweaters with Black N's - and more importantly, why would one even have a discussion about such a thing with your adult son/daughter.

I apologize for posting, there is certainly nothing I can say that is going to make a helicopter parent recognize that what they are doing is not likely in the best interest of the Midshipman or Cadet, particularly when they eventually graduate and are put in a position of leadership when parents can't swap texts or phone calls.

 

[A1Janitor]

This sounds similar to my life... however, somehow my observation about living vicariously thru children that have grown to be young adults is being distorted to suggest that I mean that you somehow disown your adult children.

I am sorry I posted, there is certainly nothing I can say that is going to make a helicopter parent recognize that what they are doing is not likely in the best interest of the Midshipman or Cadet, particularly when they eventually graduate and are put in a position of leadership when parents can't swap texts or phone calls.

Please don’t be sorry. I love reading the old timers views. Especially yours - I am excited to see what you say going forward.

It is how I learn. I mean no disrespect.

And actually - now that I review this thread - I don’t see a post where I mentioned this issue at all.

I do however take offense at calling me a helicopter parent. Cute terms. Name one instance where I am a helicopter parent. I have never taken an excessive or overprotective role in his career.

My son earned his appointment. He is doing extremely well right now. I have nothing to do with that. He will be a fine officer.

 

[USMCGrunt]

What was the original post about??

 

[Usna77]

What was the original post about??

Getting back to it, lol...i think the thought is that aside from the tradition aspect there are mids getting in trouble for breaking a rule that wasn't put in place beforehand. I won't claim to know all the details, but it appears to an outsider that the "Black N" kids participated in a tradition that was not revoked until after Halloween. Now these mids, who already have a large previous infraction, are being formally reprimanded after the fact. This puts their holiday leave at risk in addition to other things.

 

[usna1985]

Two thoughts. First, none of here (including me and including current mids) likely know all of the facts.

Second, based on what we've been told, if I had a Black N (and especially if I were a firstie and especially with the holidays upcoming), I think I'd keep my nose VERY, VERY clean. Thus, given the choice between a written rule that says you can't wear the sweater and a mid who said that some officer said that you could on this one day . . . I know what I'd go with. But that's just me.

 

[Usna77]

Two thoughts. First, none of here (including me and including current mids) likely know all of the facts.

Second, based on what we've been told, if I had a Black N (and especially if I were a firstie and especially with the holidays upcoming), I think I'd keep my nose VERY, VERY clean. Thus, given the choice between a written rule that says you can't wear the sweater and a mid who said that some officer said that you could on this one day . . . I know what I'd go with. But that's just me.

So I know it's hard to tell tone from text so let me clarify beforehand....this is a real question and not intended to be snarky...You are saying there is a written rule that they can't wear a black N? As I said before, i dont know all the details, but was under the impression that there is not a rule on the books, so it seemed unfair to punish after the fact. If there is, it obviously changes things.

 

[A6E Dad]

not because i'm a helicopter parent, but because i was curious, a quick google search produced this:

COMDTMIDNINST 5400.6U 10 Apr 18
CHAPTER 7: UNIFORMS AND APPEARANCE 7.1 GENERAL GUIDANCE
7.1 GENERAL GUIDANCE
2. Midshipmen shall not, at any time:
g. Wear a yellow sweater bearing a black N.

so, yeah. if someone already has a black n*, meaning he/she already screwed up and got caught in the first place, then they probably aren't wise to deliberately and knowingly break rules without being prepared for the consequences.

in fairness though, if this has been a tradition, and it's been an unwritten rule that it's allowed on halloween, AND the new Dant decides to stop allowing it and enforce the rule THEN fairness would dictate that he would make that new policy known ahead of time. then again, if he wants to be a hard a$$ there's no rule that says he has to provide notice.

that might be basis for a sea lawyer's defense at mast (or whatever they call conduct hearings) but, for a prior offender, not sure how far that will go. i don't really have an opinion either way, nor do i really care. actually, i do care, and it really sucks for the mids that might face separation over this, especially if there are senior officers who said it was ok. but it's for the mids to figure out and live with

as always -

Live by the Gouge, Die by the Gouge - JOPA

 

[Old Navy BGO]

COMDTMIDNINST 5400.6U 10 Apr 18
CHAPTER 7: UNIFORMS AND APPEARANCE 7.1 GENERAL GUIDANCE
7.1 GENERAL GUIDANCE
2. Midshipmen shall not, at any time:
g. Wear a yellow sweater bearing a black N

Thank A6E -- I was wondering if there was such a rule. Looks pretty Black & er., Yellow to me.
I agree with the comments about fairness, but '85's right--thumbing your nose at a regulation is pretty dumb when you are under a microscope.