Dilemma

[flieger83]

I'm not going to try to convince you that it's Annapolis or nothing...

The MAJORITY of military officers, of the three major services, come from ROTC; not the academy.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[FFG13]

Don't forget the various State Maritime Academies (Maine, Massachusetts, New York, California, Texas, Great Lakes) that have turned out many, many fine Navy officers over the years. Generally, each State Academy has an NROTC unit/program that leads to commissioning. If Navy service is indeed what you want to do - it will be the same gold bar that USNA grads pin on at graduation.

 

[MMA19kid]

He is a consummate leader - a quiet but resolute example to others.

Interesting, an 18 year old "consummate leader"...I hope this is a joke. What kind of command experience does he have? I'm sure a ton of senior enlisted and commissioned officers who have successfully commanded large units wouldn't refer to themselves as consummate leaders.

He shows more integrity and character than befits someone his age.

I don't know to what extent his integrity or character have been tested. But you would be surprised how survival instincts take over under high pressure and the line between right and wrong is blurred.

 

[FutureCadet12]

Interesting, an 18 year old "consummate leader"...I hope this is a joke. What kind of command experience does he have? I'm sure a ton of senior enlisted and commissioned officers who have successfully commanded large units wouldn't refer to themselves as consummate leaders.

I don't know to what extent his integrity or character have been tested. But you would be surprised how survival instincts take over under high pressure and the line between right and wrong is blurred.

No need for the rude remarks - that was completely unwarranted for. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Interesting, an 18 year old "consummate leader"...I hope this is a joke. What kind of command experience does he have? I'm sure a ton of senior enlisted and commissioned officers who have successfully commanded large units wouldn't refer to themselves as consummate leaders.

I don't know to what extent his integrity or character have been tested. But you would be surprised how survival instincts take over under high pressure and the line between right and wrong is blurred.

There are certainly leaders outside of military commands (I would suggest leaving comments about leadership at military commands to the people who actually have SOME experience in that area.

And of course, unless you've dealt with a survival situation, I think that's an area you can avoid lecturing others about...


"But LITS, I wore a Gumby suit in cold water...."

 

[trackandfield08]

Interesting, an 18 year old "consummate leader"...I hope this is a joke. What kind of command experience does he have? I'm sure a ton of senior enlisted and commissioned officers who have successfully commanded large units wouldn't refer to themselves as consummate leaders.

I don't know to what extent his integrity or character have been tested. But you would be surprised how survival instincts take over under high pressure and the line between right and wrong is blurred.

These comments are how we lose first time posters. The point of this discussion is to advise the OP on their options and for encouragement/constructive criticism in addition to personal stories that may help, something 2020Vision was offering. Your comments are unnecessary and add nothing to the discussion. As a future leader, whether that be in the military, maritime industry or elsewhere, you should continually strive to act in manner befitting a good leader, no matter what circumstance you may be in. An "anonymous" forum may still come back to bite you and you are certainly not helping to enhance MMA's reputation.

OP, you never know until you try. Should USNA say no the first time, there are always other options and more times to try again. Take prep courses, study hard, and look at other programs as other posters have suggested. If your goal is truly to serve, Annapolis is not the only way. Good luck!

 

[MMA19kid]

There are certainly leaders outside of military commands (I would suggest leaving comments about leadership at military commands to the people who actually have SOME experience in that area.

And of course, unless you've dealt with a survival situation, I think that's an area you can avoid lecturing others about...


"But LITS, I wore a Gumby suit in cold water...."

Don't think I've ever worn a gumby suit in cold water or been in actual cold water, sounds like an unpleasant experience I'd rather leave to the folks of the USCG. I wasn't speaking from experience...I was regurgitating what a retired O-6 (USN) told me.

But, all this notwithstanding, I'm sure most rational people would agree with me, that the 18 year old plebe at the Naval Academy is not as consummate a leader as his mother professes him to be.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Don't think I've ever worn a gumby suit in cold water or been in actual cold water, sounds like an unpleasant experience I'd rather leave to the folks of the USCG. I wasn't speaking from experience...I was regurgitating what a retired O-6 (USN) told me.

But, all this notwithstanding, I'm sure most rational people would agree with me, that the 18 year old plebe at the Naval Academy is not as consummate a leader as his mother professes him to be.

Again, you have no basis for that comment. There are certainly leaders plebe or plebe summer. Maybe not at USMMA, but we had them at CGA, and I don't doubt USNA has the same. (Maybe it takes more than two weeks of summer camp at KP to weed out the leaders?)

Regarding gumby suits, generally it's the Coast Guard plucking mariners out of the water wearing them (not the Coasties themselves wearing them).

I'm guessing the fact you haven't donned one means you haven't been at sea yet...

 

[MMA19kid]

Again, you have no basis for that comment. There are certainly leaders plebe or plebe summer. Maybe not at USMMA, but we had them at CGA, and I don't doubt USNA has the same. (Maybe it takes more than two weeks of summer camp at KP to weed out the leaders?)

Regarding gumby suits, generally it's the Coast Guard plucking mariners out of the water wearing them (not the Coasties themselves wearing them).

I'm guessing the fact you haven't donned one means you haven't been at sea yet...

I can't recall if we had leaders at summer camp (don't think so), but the plebe's mother didn't simply call him a 'leader'. I wouldn't have taken offense to that, she called him a 'consummate leader'.

Consummate: showing a high degree of skill and flair; complete or perfect

If the plebe is already a consummate leader (complete or perfect), then why am I wasting the DoD's budget in putting him through the Naval Academy? Might as well commission him and rank him up to admiral today.

In addition, read closely, I said:

Don't think I've ever worn a gumby suit in cold water or been in actual cold water

I didn't say that I had never donned one. I've donned them many times, inflated my clothes, swam in khakis for an hour or whatever, etc all the standard stuff.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I can't recall if we had leaders at summer camp (don't think so), but the plebe's mother didn't simply call him a 'leader'. I wouldn't have taken offense to that, she called him a 'consummate leader'.

Consummate: showing a high degree of skill and flair; complete or perfect

If the plebe is already a consummate leader (complete or perfect), then why am I wasting the DoD's budget in putting him through the Naval Academy? Might as well commission him and rank him up to admiral today.

In addition, read closely, I said:


I didn't say that I had never donned one. I've donned them many times, inflated my clothes, swam in khakis for an hour or whatever, etc all the standard stuff.

So again, you haven't been to sea... (a pool doesn't count as "sea")

Secondly, it doesn't take a school to make a leader, some come by it naturally. It does, however, take a commissioning source to make an officer.

"We're sorry, you're too much of a leader to come to our school or become a Naval officer...."

I mean, do you actually think this stuff through?

 

[MMA19kid]

So again, you haven't been to sea... (a pool doesn't count as "sea")

That's really irrelevant and off topic to this whole discussion.

Secondly, it doesn't take a school to make a leader, some come by it naturally. It does, however, take a commissioning source to make an officer.

"We're sorry, you're too much of a leader to come to our school or become a Naval officer...."

You clearly don't grasp hyperbole.

 

[LineInTheSand]

That's really irrelevant and off topic to this whole discussion.





You clearly don't grasp hyperbole.

Zero experience in leadership positions. Zero experience in life threatening situations. Zero experience as a plebe at a military academy. Zero experience with the military.

I'd say the most irrelevant thing in this entire thread has been your uninformed "advice".

 

[NavyHoops]

Folks,

Can we get these back on track please? I understand both are presenting their opinions, but this thread is about a dilemma for a candidate between SAs. Can we take the back and forth to another thread about leadership (are leaders born or made), when does one truely become a leader or any other relevant off topics about leadership or have a PM back and forth. One that many might in very short time be deciding between ROTC vs a SA or SA vs SA, battalion vs battalion.

Thanks,
Your neighborhood Mod

 

[Wcyeung123]

Yes,
I may agree that an 18 year old plebe may not have experience as a senior enlisted man, but it's the drive to be better. That same drive is in me. My family are Chinese immigrants, and during WWII the japenese invaded their area. If it wasn't for the US, I probably wouldn't be here. You can say my family has a debt to the US that I will fulfill.
I know that my dilemma is a personal one, and I thank those who offered their piece. I will have to do my best and give it my all academically and physically and hope I get in.

 

[GrilledCheese94]

My SAT and ACT score went up considerably after I enlisted.

I ended up with a Fleet appointment via NAPS after 2 years in the Fleet.

I loved being a Sailor; a lot of the high school pressure was off in my case.

I went from a 1040 (in 1985 SATs) to a 1280 (in 1988 SATs) simply because the pressure was "off" in terms of immediate success.

I also took the ACTs, which was rare in Philadelphia back then.

S/F,
Grilled Cheeze

 

[MMA19kid]

Zero experience in leadership positions. Zero experience in life threatening situations. Zero experience as a plebe at a military academy. Zero experience with the military.

I'd say the most irrelevant thing in this entire thread has been your uninformed "advice".

Absolutely...I definitely lack the astute decision making skills that you acquired during your Swab Summer and the mind numbing leadership abilities that were honed by wearing your backpack on a single shoulder during your 4th Class year. I lack the technical skills and mechanical ingenuity which you displayed during your career in servicing ATONs and the precise observational skills which enabled you to detect deficiencies and issue citations for expired inspections and other violations. I lack the courage and discipline which you displayed in answering distress calls and risking your life in bringing sailors and seamen 'home from the sea'. Oh...wait, I think that those courageous men came from Cape May, not New London. I lack the grit, determination, and guts which you exemplified in interdicting that sliver of the gross amount of drugs and migrants flowing into America, while the majority of the drugs/migrants made it to the streets and became state/local law enforcement's problem.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Absolutely...I definitely lack the astute decision making skills that you acquired during your Swab Summer and the mind numbing leadership abilities that were honed by wearing your backpack on a single shoulder during your 4th Class year. I lack the technical skills and mechanical ingenuity which you displayed during your career in servicing ATONs and the precise observational skills which enabled you to detect deficiencies and issue citations for expired inspections and other violations. I lack the courage and discipline which you displayed in answering distress calls and risking your life in bringing sailors and seamen 'home from the sea'. Oh...wait, I think that those courageous men came from Cape May, not New London. I lack the grit, determination, and guts which you exemplified in interdicting that sliver of the gross amount of drugs and migrants flowing into America, while the majority of the drugs/migrants made it to the streets and became state/local law enforcement's problem.

There's so much to correct about this post, but the most important is, my class could not wear or carry backpacks.... and boy did that irk us.


But everything else, you're correct on... you lack experience across the board... and it's plain to see.

 

[AROTC-dad]

For LITS: