disenrolled 22 days before graduation

Marriage and Finances?

This is a horrible situation...granted he brought it on himself, but it is still horrible. I agree with others who have said at this point, he really may not realize the impact this will have on his future.

Along with helping him understand and plan accordingly regarding the financial and educational fallout, I wonder if you (his parent) have had a chance to discuss with him the reality of the impact on the wedding they intend to have.

If the plan was to be married this summer, for them to move to where he was to be stationed and live off of his salary...well his career, income and housing are no longer in place. They might need to think about where they will live, how they will support themselves, how he will finish school and how they will pay back his debt if they get married now.

I am sure this will all become VERY overwhelming to him and it might be hard to throw all of that at him at once, but better to do so than for them to jump and get married, only to find that it is not the best decision at this point.

I am sorry you are all faced with this.

S
 
That is a good point, stella.

My son who was disenrolled from ROTC will be living at home for the foreseeable future. Even with reduced payments spread out longer over 10 years, it is a huge bite into a salary.

For bigdog's son, the added issue is whether or not the son will end up with a degree. It sounds from bigdog's comments that this may not happen, so he will have to either go to work or back to school. The question is where? Getting married right now has bad idea written all over it.

I wish these young people well, as well as parents. Everything is still fairly new and probably has not all sunk in, yet. When we went through this process, the first few weeks and months we were hopefully naiive that justice would prevail, and kid would get restored to his commission. When the final paperwork came in mail from unit saying disenrollment would stand was rough. Then, months later, message regarding son's losing appeal was even more so. A few months after that, the bill from DFAS came in mail with the comic request to settle the nearly 150K bill in 30 days was a laugh riot. I was surprised how hard this decision hit me and my husband to the core. I wish we could help our son by helping him to pay his debt, but we are not in that position to do so.

Now we are living with reality that son won't be launching anytime, soon.

Might not be right time for this couple to get married, for all the reasons stella mentioned.
 
Out of curiosity, since he was not recommended for enlistment, is this just for the Air Force? Or could he possibly enlist in a different branch or apply for an ROTC scholarship elsewhere?
 
H2Opolodude said:
Out of curiosity, since he was not recommended for enlistment, is this just for the Air Force? Or could he possibly enlist in a different branch or apply for an ROTC scholarship elsewhere?
Click to expand...

As CC said, the DD Form 214 is coded. As such the codes are usually DoD wide. DS was disenrolled for academics in February-he was coded for reenlistment-though it took a long time to get it figured out as it was an unusual code. His roommate who was also disenrolled however was coded differently due to concussions suffered during BCT and then during the academic year. He can not apply to any service ever again because of the concussions.
Not sure on the ROTC side of things, I am sure it once again will come down to the coding on the DD Form 214.
 
Who is the bride marrying???

The whole discussion on the upcoming marriage is interesting...

The "young" (<20) bride got engaged to a future pilot. All was great.

She is now looking at marrying a young man with a large non-dischargable debt hanging around his neck.

Does she know what she is buying into - i.e. helping him work through a pile of debt?

Does she know who big that debt is likely to be and how much that is a month over how many years without owning a house, a new car, etc.?

Has he discussed his bleak future finances with her?

Is her head in the clouds?

You will find out if she is marrying the pilot she thought she had, or the young man she fell in love with very soon.

This is probably the most difficult honest (but very necessary) discussion everyone should be having - and probably as an extended family (both sides), because there is a lot of potential for even more expensive things to happen (children) going forward. And I don't think anyone wants to have divorced child move back home with grandchild because the stress was too much.

If all parties can come out of this meeting with a plan that is understood by all, then things like this can make a family stronger. Otherwise, this can still go downhill.

Wishing you peace.
 
Bigdog, my condolences to you and your son. How they catch him, they came in the room/caught them sneak in or saw them that morning? I guess he didn't finish his last semester (no grades, incomplete) since he was messing up.

Its not over. He can go on and bust the next few weeks for an internship/summer work at an eng firm, airport, or company near your home (free rent) and then go to a Univ (Fall) to finish up his classes for a degree he wants.

They were probably getting married because he would graduate and be in pilot training. Easier to have a wife than GF in the mil. If it was me, after getting out of the 'meeting'/notice being kicked-out, the next time I was allowed to talk with my GF I be bring up the, 'I don't think the wedding will be this summer since my graduation and job is delayed and I will be trying to find a school and job' talk. He went to AFA for 3 years so he can't be stupid. I would say they both are stupid if they get married before he gets back up. Ha, I'm sure he had numerous 'talks' at the AFA after he did a bone head break the rules idea, he has to remember those and get him self back to flying right. His leaders believed in him and wanted him to be successful, but he went majorly off course. He will have to be successful in the civ University.

If he learned anything at the AFA from those talks, then this week and the next few weeks he will busting looking for potential jobs, not spending that money if he took out on a loan so he can pay it back (give it back :biggrin:) and schools he wants to attend (studying costs and majors vs his credits). Maybe he will enjoy the football and frat life this Fall :cool: .
 
It won't exactly be easy transferring - it won't happen by fall, anyway, unless a college takes pity on him and does some sort of special admit or has rolling admission into the summer months.

Most apps for transfer students were filed last fall and winter, for fall 2013 admissions.

Another issue brought up by another poster, I cannot recall which one - it wasn't exactly easy to figure out a way to even try to get into another branch of service. It was suggested by an officer sitting on son's board that he could do this. It was clear from son's papers that he was ineligible for Navy, as either officer or enlisted. The weight standards were different for Army, but son lost weight even before final disenrollment papers were signed. I have no idea how you could even sign up for another branch, and if that would have even helped with payback. By the time last documents arrived, it was too disheartening for him to even investigate this option.

Also, another poster asked about ROTC scholarships elsewhere - just to play Devil's advocate here - why would another unit want this young man to take a scholarship away from another kid? he has not exercised good judgement, which would be a big red flag. is a highly competitive process getting a scholarship, and it would have to be a different branch if his paperwork said ineligible to serve that branch of service.

Tough sell, considering the circumstances.

Not dissing bigdog's son, at all. Just eyes wide open about this process and the harsh consequence for not towing the line, having experienced this fallout for own kid.
 
I agree with Gojira, this would be a tough sell for any branch to allow them into their ROTC program when we are looking at every branch being touched by sequestration.
 
For those interested or with a need, I believe Purdue University--which has excellent engineering programs including Aeronautical Engineering--uses a July 31 transfer deadline. It is one of the few four year universities with such a liberal deadline. Still plenty of time to submit a transfer application and begin in the Fall semester.
 
"To profit from good advice requires more wisdom than to give it."

We are staying out of the way. They have it all "figured out".

Thanks for all your comments, suggestions, etc... I think at age 22 it's time to pull up the big boy pants and get going. Tired of giving advice that isn't heeded. USFA did a good job of instilling manners, which can be found at the beginning of most of his text messages to me lately:

"I definitely respect your opinion, BUT...."
 
bigdog77515 said:
"To profit from good advice requires more wisdom than to give it."

We are staying out of the way. They have it all "figured out".

Thanks for all your comments, suggestions, etc... I think at age 22 it's time to pull up the big boy pants and get going. Tired of giving advice that isn't heeded. USFA did a good job of instilling manners, which can be found at the beginning of most of his text messages to me lately:

"I definitely respect your opinion, BUT...."
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that bigdog, but I must say I definitely know the feeling. Hang in there... someday you'll know something again.
 
bigdog,

Someday the conversation will turn to:

I respect your opinion, what do you think?

It happens like a flip of a switch. Our DS last yr was your DS's age, and we got that. This yr., 12 months later it is now what do you think?
 
bigdog,

I have a few words from a personal non military perspective. Like others I am sure, not condoning the mistake your DS made, and not disagreeing with the consequences, I hurt for you and your DS. As a father who made a financial mistake, let's say a large financial mistake without a 40 year period to recover, I have a small word of encouragement. Love your DS and keep the lines of communication open. Right now he thinks he has all of the answers, but at some point he will need you. Don't let him doubt your love for him.

bandad
Prov 18:10
 
bigdog77515 said:
"To profit from good advice requires more wisdom than to give it."

We are staying out of the way. They have it all "figured out".

Thanks for all your comments, suggestions, etc... I think at age 22 it's time to pull up the big boy pants and get going. Tired of giving advice that isn't heeded. USFA did a good job of instilling manners, which can be found at the beginning of most of his text messages to me lately:

"I definitely respect your opinion, BUT...."
Click to expand...

Welcome to what I call the dumbest 10 years of your life.

The occur when you child is between the age of 15 and 25.

Before age 15, you (the parent) are the fountain of all wisdom.

Between 15 and 25, you don't know a thing.

At age 25, suddenly you have all the answers again and the ears are turned on.

So, I'd say you are only a couple years away from being relevant again...
 
But the best time, is when your kids have kids and you get to smile and laugh when their kids are being difficult to deal with. It is priceless.
 
goaliedad said:
Welcome to what I call the dumbest 10 years of your life.

The occur when you child is between the age of 15 and 25.

Before age 15, you (the parent) are the fountain of all wisdom.

Between 15 and 25, you don't know a thing.

At age 25, suddenly you have all the answers again and the ears are turned on.

So, I'd say you are only a couple years away from being relevant again...
Click to expand...

I must be a good salesperson. Both of our kids still want /ask for our advice. :eek: They are 19 and 21. That said, they have figured out that I don't have all the answers. That's because the questions are tougher.
 
Pima said:
Even if he is not required to payback the cost of the education. I am pretty sure he took that starter loan.

Does anyone know of a cadet that didn't take it?
The fine print, jumps that interest rate to @20% if they leave prior to their commitment owed.

35K. @20% and you are looking at a huge, huge repayment, especially if they will not award the degree, because now they will have to pay to attend another college.
Click to expand...

I was the only person in my class that I am aware of that didn't take the loan. Not saying I was the only one, but literally every single classmate I knew took that loan.
 
Pima said:
The fine print, jumps that interest rate to @20% if they leave prior to their commitment owed.

35K. @20% and you are looking at a huge, huge repayment, especially if they will not award the degree, because now they will have to pay to attend another college.
Click to expand...

$35k at 20% for 5 years = $927 per month, for a total payback of over $55,000.

That's a LOT of interest to pay ($20,000!) in 5 years.
 
I didn't take it while I was at USAFA because I didn't need it, but when I graduated I took it and am now using it to do some remodeling of my house. I guess I don't know anyone else in 2012 who didn't... And that is a lot to pay back. I don't remember anyone even considering that aspect when the loan was available.
 
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